Well that went just as I expected it to. The admins are still the admins. They’re the top of the power totem and that’s that.
Honestly this protest’s only purpose shouldve be to raise awareness of alternatives and tell people “were leaving Reddit, and this is where we’re going” while we still can. Because Reddit is private property, and therefore will always be subject to the whims of its admins - regardless of how people believe it should be run of if people think it should tolerate protesting against the platform on the platform.
Everyone should’ve been aware that this protest could only have been temporary.
Sure we reminded them of the power we possess, but they’ve essentially reminded us that they possess more, and can remove that power regardless of how the community feels. Admins are and have always been at the top.
Honestly just the fact that the protest gave awareness to viable reddit alternatives is good enough. And the blackout helped in that regard to force users to search for alternatives (like me). Obviously subs will be forced back open, but people have options now with whole communities here that literally did not exist weeks ago.
No one had any illusions about how this was going to go. The point was making them do it. The point was forcing Reddit into a PR nightmare just before their big IPO. The point was giving this platform traction. The fact that this post exists on this platform is proof that the mods succeeded. Sure, Reddit is still huge… but with entire mod teams being replaced with Spez bootlickers it remains to be seen whether they can maintain what they have, or if this is Digg all over again.
It’s hard to predict what will happen, but I’m here, and you’re here, so something is happening.
I don’t think reddit will die, but they definitely hurt themselves. The fediverse grew by leaps and bounds over the past week, reddit drove so much traffic to their potential competitors. Then when the 3rd party apps die, they’ll lose some more.
Reddit is gambling on gaining enough revenue from pushing people on 3rd party apps to 1st party that it makes up for the loss of users overall.
People on reddit say “Why do we care about 3rd party apps, it’s such a small section of the userbase” But apparently reddit cares enough about that small section of the userbase that they need to push them to their own app.
Nobody said it makes sense.
We’ll see in a few days what the people end up choosing. I’m not going back unless demands are met, but I do have a tiny glimmer of hope that the people will let it go as apps disappear, and a slightly larger glimmer of hope that it’ll just kinda shrivel over the following months and years.
But, in all likelihood, people are dumb, and spineless and ignorant, and will continue to make spez money and the durability of the site will endure. It’ll be worse, but not worse enough for the vast majority of normal people to not use it. I have hope, but it’s simply hope in the face of my ever growing misanthropy.
I never thought I’d side with Disney on anything, but then came Ron DeSantis. I never thought I’d side with Reddit mods on anything, but then came spez.
Yeah, huh. It’s weird how that happened. Disney, ruiner of many small companies and destroyer of the purpose of copyright law on a deeply greedy level, goes against a sociopath nazi white nationalist, probably kkk.
Ten years ago, I liked Disney stuff but hated what they’ve done to the freedom of law and ruining the opportunities of many.
But here we are, post-2016 trump era, the world is way, way worse, and my activist political aunt was right.
She said to me, back then at a family get together after dinner, that electing trump is an extremely scary thing and would be bad.
I asked her what’s the worst that could really happen.
She kinda stared back at me, as if to gauge what to say. Then said that he was the type of person that brings all the awful things out from under their rocks, and told me to keep my eyes open and pay attention, because if he got elected, the next 4 years will be the type of history that only happens once in a lifetime.
She was 100% serious, as if she could see the future. But she was just in her 60s, big gay, from DC, and confident and loud. I can still see the the look of dread and sorrow on her face as she said that to me, and I doubt I’ll ever forget it.
Power typically begets more power, and the only way to fix it is to forcefully bend it to your will over and over again. I can’t believe Disney is where our trust is for civil rights, but, I guess it can always be worse and Disney knows that and is using us for support. It’s not great.
Fuck spez.
It’s like boomer sociopaths grew old enough in their time, and were like “yeah, ruin everything, yeah yeah”. But then millennial sociopaths grew old enough and are now like, “hold my coke…” Can we reign this shit in for the future generations at least? Because it’s awful.
Sadly trump is not likily to be once he may be back by end of next year
She kinda stared back at me, as if to gauge what to say. Then said that he was the type of person that brings all the awful things out from under their rocks, and told me to keep my eyes open and pay attention, because if he got elected, the next 4 years will be the type of history that only happens once in a lifetime.
Your aunt was right, but there is a positive force to this happening. It’s like boiling chicken stock. It raises the scum to the top which makes it easier to remove. While it stirred up a mess for us, that mess was always there. Now we can at least easily spot it and collectively work towards removing it.
Honestly, I’ve thought about that, too. Like what if electing trump was just a catalyst for good change? We see all the shitty stuff that we’re not immune to (no pun intended), and then steel our resolve to be better.
Frankly, I’d rather just be done with all the nonsense, but if the last several years have taught me anything, it’s that we are ALL dumb as fuck and need to work on ourselves, myself included. Humans just aren’t quite ready. We may be, someday… But right now, I think it’s best we learn to overcome what our problems are by looking deeply into a mirror and working on that.
I kinda wanted to be able to see that galactic civilization, but I’m now aware that we have never been ready for it, and need to stop pretending we don’t have issues and blind spots.
At least they took a stand. Thousands of other subs who got the same ultimatums just gave in no questions asked, no malicious compliance.
The end result is the same so what did that stand achieve exactly
I can understand that, lot of smaller sub are build by themselves, not wanting to lose something you spend so much time building to some random smug is pretty much human, it isn’t about holding that jANitOr job. I’ve seen a country sub i frequent goes from 4 digit to 6 digit in the span of 6 years, it’s a lot of works. Also sub like r/projectzomboid is established by the company and mods are paid position, getting kick out is…weird lol.
The issue is, because it’s “understandable”, it’s also what gives spez the power here. If they weren’t willing to go all the way, they needn’t have bothered with the blackout at all. There was never any actual hope spez would change his mind from a 2 day blackout, anyone that knows anything about how he’s handled things in the past should have known this. This was always going to be a standoff.
Besides, after everything spez has done, these mods shouldn’t want to be modding for the site anymore. Spez has displayed a level of malice and disrespect for everyone, especially them. Why give him free labor?
That’s all it is. Every minute you spend moding reddit is polishing the investment you will never see a single dime of. Spez is going to get a good deal of money off you while spitting on you, and you will get nothing but saliva. Continuing to mod there is an acceptance of that.
Also, let’s be real, this isn’t the end of it. Reddit will continue to get worse as Spez continues down the Musk-path. Users already can’t block certain advertising accounts; I promise you a day is coming when mods won’t be able to stop them in their own communities if they decide to post there. Mods will be forced to make their communities adhere to even stricter “ad friendly” content guidelines, just like YouTube. Etc etc, on and on, ad infinitum. Why stay there for all that?
This is the time to leave, to find a new place to start your communities again, get in early and find places as mods around here.
Spez has displayed a level of malice and disrespect for everyone, especially them. Why give him free labor?
Especially when it reinforces his batshit delusions of being a post-apocalypse slavemaster: “I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.”
Money and fame make you fucked in the head.
Have you noticed that all of those loud doomers are the rich Silicon Valley type? Him and Sam Altman and Musk et al. I mostly think that their main product is not tech, but fear, so they can sell themselves as the Messiahs of the unwashed masses and the only people responsible enough to control their technology.
These tech people really need to read more sci-fi, even their delusional doomer scenarios are just so unimaginative.
it’s also what gives spez the power here
I doubt it is the small communities with less than 100,000 members which give spez the power here. I think it’s the bigger ones, the ones people often find when googling for solutions to certain issues. Unfortunately, even if those subs close down and even if users “delete” all their posts, reddit holds the power to restore them (if this is lawful or not, at least for EU-based users according to GDPR, is a different topic. I’m not a lawyer.)
I think the value comes from the science-, open-source, diy- and IT-based subs. Those create the value people look for even years later via Google. Those are also user with sufficient technical expertise to maybe move over to Lemmy, or maybe even run their own Lemmy instance. If those subs stay firm or move out, that will seriously harm Reddit. And the smaller communities will follow eventually.
“Every minute you spend moding reddit is polishing the investment you will never see a single dime of. Spez is going to get a good deal of money off you while spitting on you, and you will get nothing but saliva”
That’s why I MANUALLY(R***** won’t care deleting, cause those are, of course, their source for investment, so only I have to) delete all my posts, comments, history, profile and account including disjoining communities and connections (takes time 😮💨 but at least relieved from fear), forever and tough (let it go🎤🎵🎶), so that, the ungrateful head won’t ever milk anymore information I had put.
Information(data stored on databases) has made their success and profit(of course necessary but became greedy), and now they disgrace and maltreat the ones who’d helped the site flourished to become a wonderful world we’d ever wanted.
I won’t allow them to exploit any information from me whether personally, actually or technically (even a short comment or pic or data or a bit of silly word) for malice with AI coming(already here happening) to Internet.
Do to do fair action.
I think you’re reading too much into it. Active users is where the money is, not outdated data. Just dont login or otherwise engage with reddit -that’s what hurting them in the long run
Incoming “this is always gonna happen”, “i’ve predict this” and then the crowd who criticise them for bowing down to Reddit to keep their “unpaid job” is suddenly very silent.
Those are not contradictory positions. In my opinion, we all did know this was going to happen. And also, any mods that rolled over to continue doing an unpaid job just to retain some form of power are bitches.
Being forcibly removed was the best way to go out, I respect it.
Some communities do serve an important support network for many people (things like places for closeted LGBT+ people to express themselves when they live in anti-LGBT+ areas, etc). They’re sometimes more than just a place to get dopamine hit while bored at work.
For sure, but if you are a mod of that type of community, wouldn’t you want to move to a platform where you have actual control? It’s 3rd party apps being targeted and ad-driven policies that overthrow mods today but how are you going to protect your community if they come after you next? You can’t on that platform, it’s their platform, it belongs to them, they can do what they want, so if you set up your camp there, you need to think twice about it, especially if you are a steward to others.
Look at how transphobic Twitter has become recently. Look at how all these profit driven companies have fucked their users over the years, there is example after example with Google, Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, and Reddit now. It’s a major reason why I got into selfhosting different services at home, and I consider us fortunate to also have alternative federated services to replace these social sites and gain some control and privacy back in a like manner.
I totally agree and have made a similar argument on Reddit in one of those spaces as well. I think it’s worth purposely killing those existing communities to get people to move. Boring malicious compliance + a link to the new home is how egg_irl has been handling it and I think it’s how others should as well (I have complaints about where they’re moving the community to, but that’s a separate issue). The mods have explicitly stated they’re trying to make the sub boring to get people to leave.
But I won’t insult mods of a less meme-focused support network who believes that putting up with reddit is worth it to help provide as much of a safe space on Reddit as they can. I think they may be acting in what they believe to be the best interests of others, likely at their own expense (in terms of time and sanity). Diversity of tactics are cool
any mods that rolled over to continue doing an unpaid job just to retain some form of power are bitches.
Personally, I don’t believe that POV is fair. As someone who, with a small group of friends, started a sub that has grown to 100k people and is the most active internet community for a niche gaming segment - i personally think it’s not that easy to judge. I have not been active on my sub in years, and I leave the job up to the new guard, but I can completely respect the decision to want to keep something you invested in building alive and a positive influence in the area it affects. It’s easy to armchair QB stuff like this and judge others decisions, but to just generalize and say “better to die than to think something else is better in the bigger picture” is a bit of a cop out imo.
It’s easy to judge for anyone with principles. I would have officially moved the community before shutting down the reddit community or being forcibly removed from it.
Anyone that feigned outrage or protest that stays is a hypocrite.
hard disagree. This isn’t black and white, you can do some of both and that is not wrong or unprincipled. Thinking otherwise is just simple minded.
I’d say it’s actually a fairly black and white situation considering continuing to use Reddit is proving spez exactly right while adding more free value to them for their IPO.
I would do everything in my power to move over to a different community and not give them another click ever again that they can try and monetize. I’d understand if these were paid positions but they’re not, there’s no reason to stay. If the communities end up going poorly afterward that is on Reddit and what they deserve.
And also, any mods that rolled over to continue doing an unpaid job just to retain some form of power are bitches.
Sincerely disagree about that.
If you are willing to do an unpaid job, for a company that has essentially spit in your face, than you have lower standards than me.
And if you’re doing it just because you’re afraid to let go of whatever pathetic little power you have established there, then your ideals don’t align with mine, and I see you as a bitch.
And if you’re doing it just because you’re afraid to let go of whatever pathetic little power you have established there, then your ideals don’t align with mine, and I see you as a bitch.
Well, the problem is on you then.
Agreeing with them being a bitch doesn’t make them less of a bitch.
I wouldn’t say boo if everyone hadn’t been so unanimously Gung ho two weeks ago or whatever, but watching those people falter THE SECOND their power is threatened after talking all that good shit, yeah they “bitched out.”
A kind reminder that the one getting removed now are the one being called a bitch 2 days ago because they open up their sub but instead running it like normal they maliciously compliant with the admin.
Now i do find that change of opinion a lack of principle or whatever heck they wanna call it.
For me, I respect the hell out of the mods that went down swinging, and for the ones that are not willing to burn it all down or just walk away I can definitely empathize with how they might be feeling.
Personally it has been heartbreaking to completely shut out all of the communities I was a small part of, and it must be infinitely worse for the ones that have put in all the effort.
That’s the problem with people calling them bitch or loser. The moment i saw anyone calling them “unpaid mod” or “janitor” is the moment i don’t argue with them, because they started in such a wrong step it’s hard to even correct them.
Why is it bad to call them unpaid mods? That’s exactly what they are.
I’m not the one with compromised principles.
But the one with lack of understanding and empathy.
Empathy for hypocritical mods? Listen, I know it has to be hard to leave or move a huge community you worked hard to build… I’m empathetic to that, but my empathy or lack thereof doesn’t detract from my points.
I needed a kick in the ass to get me here, and the second and third and … waves of reddit fuckery finally got me to join. It’s a shame. Reddit was once a good place on the internet. Now it is entirely enshitified.
I went back today…i have some plant id subs left and a couple of things that are still good, but yeesh, i had a lot to do today and i ended up wondering what is going on there. At this point there are things that are not safe for life, dammit. Cool to have this place now, i have to say.
Agreed. Seeing mod teams get nuked was what drove me away.
Wow, watching the Lemmy user activity skyrocket (signups sans bots, it’s still the starting wave of the mass exodus, exponential growth curve at its start) is just amazing.
How do we know when things are bots?
Several admins made it known that instances without captcha verification were getting bombarded with account verifications (lemmy.world got shut off from their email verification for a bit, even), and enabling captcha solved the issue. That only really happens with bots.
You can also see fairly dead instances getting 10s of thousands of users without any corresponding activity. That’s a pretty big sign there.
I’ve joined here because I think Reddit’s quality is going to tank after June 30, but I downloaded Jerboa and it doesn’t seem to accept my credentials, regardless of instance. I’m confused.
I did all of mine through jerboa. I don’t have much to offer but, dumb question, did you verify the account in the email? I had a weird sign in issue, not realizing verification was needed
You point your sign in on Jerboa to the instance you created the account on, in this case, lemmy.world. If you’re having issues with that, wait a bit and try again. If you still have trouble, try posting in the jerboa@lemmy.world community.
you created the account on, in this case, lemmy.world.
Oh hey! I didn’t know you could manually enter the instance - I thought you had to choose It let me log in! Thanks so much for the tip! :)
No major issues with jerboa from me but I find the mobile website here better right now. These apps need love and are usually open source so they can use help!
Reddit is going to do whatever the fuck it wants and will gladly fuck over the mods and users in the name of shareholder interests. These actions are chilling for anyone still considering building a community using Reddit.
Reddit needs suckers. People who are expendable, do as they’re told, and don’t ask questions.
fuck u/spez
fuck u/spez and fuck reddit’s board of directors.
Spez must leave. Meanwhile, the ones leaving are the ones that create the content that gives them visits and money. Very good decisions, yes. What a shame, Aaron Swartz would be shocked and furious, no doubt!
The dead can’t say one way or another how they would have felt, and using them as a voiceless weapon is pretty shitty.
What Spez is doing is bad enough on it’s own. There’s no need at all to disrespect the dead like that just to shore up your righteousness.
Yeah, they’re gonna keep ruining Reddit while we steadily migrate here. We’re just being a pain in the ass on our way out.
Someone told me i was going to get banned for saying i joined lemmy.world on reddit… and it’s like… Okay?? This site is shit now anyways, so you’re going to ban me for using a different website, that’s a great way to retain users during your mass-user revolt crisis.
Probably specifically because the admins (Spez) don’t want people hearing that competition exists
Back when there was exodus from digg people started posting links to stories on reddit to digg. I think the same should be done right now.
Make sure you’re willing to abruptly lose your Reddit account if you do. Reddit admins are being pretty cunthroat about this all.
That really wouldn’t bother me at this point
Is there a value in an account you aren’t planning to use on a site you don’t like anymore? I think many people will wear “being banned for advocating to migrate” as a badge of honour.
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Thank you spez for introducing me to Lemmy, I appreciate that.
For real. I never heard of Lemmy until this happened.
Me either! Now I feel like I’m getting in on the ground floor of something big.
Same. Would have signed up years ago if I’d known about it. I miss the old usenet days!
Steve Huffman is pissing all over Aaron Schwartz’s grave, and completely abandoning the ideals that was once a foundation of Reddit. Reddit was originally open source, Aaron died in 2013, and by 2017, Reddit had abandoned the open source / community philosophy entirely.
Never forget Aaron Schwartz.
Intellectual property law is such a farce. It’s wild that he was on the hook for THAT hefty of a prison sentence just because he downloaded academic articles which should on principle automatically be in the public domain.
Absolutely, the way he was treated was criminal IMO. It’s horrendous that such practically illegal law enforcement isn’t held accountable. They twisted everything against him, and ignored all his rights completely. Secret service behaved like mobsters, and their accusations were complete bogus.
I’m so happy I live in a country where the law and enforcement is much more sensible. IP law is still important, but they won’t destroy you for breaking it.
I have to believe Aaron would be leading the charge to Lemmy if he were still alive today.
His name was Aaron Swartz, his name was Aaron Swartz.
This is the main reason I haven’t been back to reddit since this shit began. All of this goes against the original ethos of Reddit that made me join and is a disrespect to all of the people who made reddit what it is. It disrespects the users, the volunteer moderators, the app developers, and the old employees. Most especially, though, it disrespects Aaron and, if I’m not mistaken, Alexis.
Alexis is no stranger to disruptive unpopular decisions either:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_Ohanian#Victoria_Taylor_firing
He did fight for open internet back in 2010, but it seems he is mostly a finance/corporate guy now, seems he is a bit of a mixed bag.
Thanks for pointing this out. I didn’t realize he was involved in Veronica’s firing.
He must also have been part of Reddit abandoning open source. I don’t think they could make such a fundamental move without him.
As a computer nerd I never knew about a lot of what this wiki article described, and I’m something of a news junkie to boot. It was a great read.
From the wiki article…
Swartz wrote in his Guerilla Open Access Manifesto:[47]
The world’s entire scientific … heritage … is increasingly being digitized and locked up by a handful of private corporations…
And interesting quote, in light of the current situation going on at Reddit right now.
If the mods of mildly Infuriating want to jump ship they are more than welcome to have their old positions back!
I am also sure for those of mildly interesting they also would find it easy establishing a mildly interesting community here on Lemmy. I know I would join it!
https://lemmy.world/c/mildlyinteresting They are way ahead of you!
Hell yeah!
…I’m disappointed by the lack of porn.
Looks like they are removing posts about it in reddit too. The main subs are scrubbed of all mention now.
