It was a sad day when Opera dropped presto.
We wanted HTML as complex as Adobe Flash. When we got it, the standard became so complex no way smaller players that didn’t dedicate massive resources to keeping up could possibly keep up.
There was just no way to keep presto up to date with the ever evolving web without a massive new source of income for Opera.
From this band, I get more and more in love with Vivaldi, especially their Workspaces feature.
Yeah, I use Vivaldi at work. I love it.
It’s not on my personal devices, but if work is going to default to Chrome anyway, I may as well be using the best version of it.
Firefox died long ago.
It was an engine fight, and Mozilla decided not to participate.
I just wish Mozilla didn’t just tread Gecko as part of Firefox, the few who tried developing on it came to the conclusion that it’s not sustainable if the engines developer doesn’t give a fuck about you! :/
Damn, that sounds like a real missed opportunity. Hopefully they come around on that one.
Well, they always did it like that and basically cut all their bigger projects in the massive layoff so I wish they did too but I doubt it :/
And yet it is missing tons of electron apps.
Also there’s now a DuckDuckGo browser!
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Which uses the OS web view. So on macOS it’s the safari engine.
Everything on iOS uses Safari tho, Apple doesn’t allow other browser engines but at least they don’t nerf the Webkit version for third parties anymore!
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I specifically mention iOS in the first sentence and then say Apple is doing it in the next…
Oi, sorry, misread.
macOS != iOS
I specifically mention iOS in the first sentence and then say Apple is doing it in the next!
That is going to chance soon and Apple will be forced to allow other web engines, as well as other app stores.
At least in the EU, luckily I from a EU citizen!
Learned Electron is also chromium. So Foundry vtt is as well…
id still probably use an chromium browser
Mozilla doesn’t make it as easy to use the Firefox / Gecko engine in other projects, which doesn’t help for adoption.
I’m way out of the loop, but is the issue that they actively make it difficult to use the rendering engine or is it that the cost to modularize it isn’t worth the payoff to Firefox itself? A subtle but important distinction IMO. I always felt it was the second, but maybe I was being dense?
They don’t try to make it difficult, but they make code changes that make it clear they have no concern for anyone who might be trying to use the engine anywhere other than in a retail build of Firefox, without providing things like deprecation warnings or upgrade paths.
What’s the source imagine from in this meme?
Firefox user since before it was called Firefox.
Firebird gang
There’s a Phoenix metaphor here somewhere
Mozilla browser was great.
Netscape was amazing
This is a fucking childish take. If you don’t like what Google is doing with Chromium that’s one thing, but acting as if the code itself is evil is just straight-up magical thinking.
The code itself is a monoculture of browsers.
Chromium is controlled by Google.
Browsers down steam on Chromium will either pull from chromium or fork from it.
They hold >75% of global browser market share.
They make a change, like enforcing Web Environment Integrity API, you either comply or your competing chromium browser will.
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So will Firefox, you think they’re not making ad revenue and operating in a capitalist system to do so?
Firefox ain’t fucking Tron, it doesn’t fight for the users.
The thing is, Google has so much influence on chromium that even if you don’t use Chrome, using chromium based browsers means you still help google maintain its monopoly on web. Only real alternatives are Firefox, Librewolf etc.
Google accounts for some 80%+ of Mozilla’s revenue. Firefox struck a different kind of deal with the devil than chromium browsers, but Google is the one pulling the strings.
Sshhhhhh you’ll destroy the narrative!
Bit of a weird thought, but I wonder also if they see Mozilla as a sort of controlled opposition too? As in, keep Firefox around so they don’t get in trouble over antitrust or something like that?
Mozilla.org is the corpse of Netscape that Google keeps animated so that it looks like they have competition when they really don’t.
The existence of Firefox is something they can point to to say they’re not a monopoly. The fact that 80% of the revenue Firefox receives is from Google means that Google effectively controls them. Mozilla has to weigh every decision against the risk that it will cause Google to withdraw their funding. That severely restricts the choices they’re willing to consider.
Firefox is only 5% of browsers, so it really doesn’t matter to Google if that 5% of users considers using a different search engine. Because of the Firefox user base, many of them will have already switched search engines, and because Google is such a dominant player, many others would switch back to Google if the browser used a different default. So, maybe 10% of that 5% would permanently switch search engines if Google stopped paying. Is that really worth billions per year? Probably not. But, pretending like you have competitors in the browser space and using that to push back on antitrust, that’s definitely worth billions per year.
Google makes something like $100 Billion a year in search ad revenue. 5% of that is $5 Billion.
It’s odd that people think Google is incredibly worried about having too large of a market share in the browser market (which they don’t make any money from) yet their 92% market share in searches is not concerning at all in terms of the potential for regulation.
The truth is nobody does anti-trust anymore (though they definitely should) and the big corporations aren’t worried at all about it. Google makes Chrome, Android, and pays Mozilla because they want to maintain dominance in the search market. Which is the thing they make money form. What they pay Mozilla is a drop in the bucket compared to what they pay Apple to be the default search engine on their devices.
Google doesn’t directly make money from their browser, but controlling their browser means they lock in the thing that drives their revenues. They can always test it out against all their ads and make sure it works, putting out a fix if it ever doesn’t. We’ve also seen recently how they’re trying to make it so people can’t run ad blockers, something they could only consider if they lock down the entire browser market.
I disagree.
Google doesn’t “control” mozilla in that way.
They can always test it out against all their ads and make sure it works, putting out a fix if it ever doesn’t.
They could do this even if they weren’t funding mozilla. Ad’s aren’t exactly reliant on bleeding edge web standards anyway. You’re thinking about tracking tech, which they don’t have any input in for firefox.
We’ve also seen recently how they’re trying to make it so people can’t run ad blockers
Well yes, and mozilla was quite vocal in their opposition, demonstrating that Google doesn’t have much control over them.
Could you expand on this
Google pays Mozilla in exchange for google being Firefox’s default search engine
I see that as an okay compromise. Anyone who cares will also know how to change it easily.
A lot of people don’t bother with changing defaults and corpos like Google, Microsoft, and the likes are well aware of this which is why Google pays Mozilla hundreds of millions of dollars per year to be the default search engine.
I understand the compromise at the surface level but the implications just result in Google gaining more power and data, making it harder for “alternatives” to replace it over time which puts us all in an a bad situation when they decide to pull shit like WEI.
That’s a good point, though I still think the average person is already entrenched in Google. Being the default on an alternative browser isn’t really going to make the difference to the average, uncaring individual.
In a perfect world it wouldn’t be necessary but on the bright side Google search is already doing enough itself to make the average person want to try something else.
And I actually wouldn’t have a problem with using google for searches if it weren’t for the fact they constantly do the captcha thing when I’m connecting via VPN. Captchas for a simple google search.
I’m not against google making money off of a good product, but they’ve enshittified it too much to be considered good now.
Bruh, I just checked google.com again after a long time… Damn, I forgot that it was so annoying. Have been using ddg for years — no problem.
Do you have any examples of how google is pulling the strings at Mozilla ?
I’m watching The Spiffing Brit’s exploit live stream right now. Firefox cannot handle that. Edge can. On linux
interesting
What? It’s just a livestream.
I just checked it out. Seems that The Spiffing Brit is trying to break youtube or something and is having people open as many tabs of his livestream as they can to get as many views as they can.
I just checked it out. And to test, I opened 15 tabs in firefox and refreshed. Just fine lol. Not sure what problem that person has besides maybe too many firefox extensions.
I did the same and RAM usage on went up 20% for me. Using flatpak Firefox if that makes a difference. It’s still responsive though as I type this comment.
Firefox Ram usage just kept going up during that stream for some reason. It was using 6GB of 8GB ram. Edge stayed at 2GB. The stream got boring after a while tho
One livestream shouldn’t be doing that. I think you got a messed up extension or something.
Its probably the emote extension. He has like 20k live viewers and no slow mode, all spamming emotes and random text
Um actually… Opera and Edge weren’t always based on chromium!
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Opera was the shit back in the early days. It could pretend to be any other browser.
Can’t you do that with any browser by changing the user agent?
Yeah:
Sent from Internet Explorer 9
I’m not sure how long you’ve been able to change the user agent in config pages tbh, I just remember Opera had it as an option in the GUI settings and even the right click menu.
Chrome was not always based on chromeium. Chrome was based on Apple WebKit until 2013 when they forked WebKit and made the Blink engine.
Chromium has always existed. Originally it was wrapping web kit and later they forked web kit into blink and diverged from Web kit. Chromium is a level above the engine.
Chromium was still the base before the WebKit/Blink fork. Chrome and Chromium were released simultaneously in 2008.
Pre-Chromium Edge wasn’t even that bad. Sure, the engine had its issues and there was probably a bit of Edge-specific JS on some websites, but I’m sure they would’ve eventually got there.
But seeing that even Microsoft abandoned making their own browser engine, it goes to show how complex it is to make one nowadays and with new web APIs/features coming out every few weeks it feels like, it’s almost impossible to keep up.
Always weren’t been
Always been’t
But they are now…
Right but that meme says ‘always has been’.
For the majority of current users, that’s the point. For them it always has been.
I have an installer for Opera 12.18, the last one to use their Presto engine. Every once in a while I test it out to see how it has aged.
It’s not pretty haha. It barely works.
I miss pre chromium Opera so much lol, lot of nostalgia
My favourite browser, abandoned it when they went chromium. RIP in peace Opera.
