The whole epidemic of defederating is mostly because of all the csam issues, no?
The implication OP is making…
theres also some other drama with tankies and communists as far as I understand. I dont really care about political views of people
tbh i have noticed them a lot less in the last couple weeks. maybe they’re giving up
Maybe you just managed to block a lot of them ?
i havent blocked anyone
Yeah the hexbear brigades seem to have mysteriously disappeared (or at least decreased) after Facebook shut down the big Chinese troll farm recently
What does Facebook have to do with Hexbear?
Yeah it’s usually it’s the other way around, troll farm gets knocked of bigger sites they increase activity on smaller sites.
Though it is possible they may have been disrupted by another actor using capabilities beyond what Facebook has once it was identified. Or maybe they were active on both Facebook and Lemmy, but after Facebook shut them down, it wasn’t worth keeping it going just for smaller communities like Lemmy.
Or maybe it’s just a coincidence. Who knows?
Liberals are so goddamn weird
Can’t I have a reasonable anti-imperialist stance while browsing memes in peace?
I dont really care about your political stance to be honest
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lemmy.nz recently defederated Hexbear, they’re running out of instances that will talk to them. .world has also defederated as well.
That white shoe between his feet confused the hell out of me for a second there…
“I don’t like drama” is always said by people who cause drama. This drama stirring meme is 100% expected from someone who would write that title
I read the title as “I don’t like Obama” lmao
Ootl here. Whats this about defederating?
Generally we can post topics and comments in any instance and can be viewed from any instance. After defederating, the communication between the instances will be cut. so we cannot comment/post with the instance that was defederated.
To add on to this: Instance admins have no control over moderating content from other instances that they’re federated with. An acceptable post on one instance could be rule breaking to another. The only option that other instance has is to defederate. Admins have acknowledged defederation is an extreme measure for what is often just a few problem communities or users, but they have no other option.
Ein föderiertes Netzwerk, das seinen größten Vorteil aufgrund unterschiedlicher Meinungen selbst deföderiert.
#FindedenFehler
Du hasts erfasst
Me, who uses it.
It would be less of a problem if we as users on an instance could block entire instances, effectively defederating it just for our user. Then those running instances could defederate only in severe cases.
Connect is a great android app where you can block instances. Though I agree this should be a site wide feature.
Blocking an instance on a user by user basis has a key drawback in the sense of those instances you block can still influence the posts and comments via up and down votes
Defederating basically means that those instances no longer have any influence on the community you’re a part of
Basically think of it this way, say you’re on a queer friendly instance that is still federated with a right wing instance. That right wing instance can manipulate the posts of the queer friendly instance by up voting queerphobic content and down voting queer positive content. And you block the instance as a user those votes still federated over so you’ll see queer positive content getting down voted to oblivion.
This is hearsay, but you might want to be careful of csam material potentially being federated if you self host your instance.
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That’s why I’m pretty happy I made one on Lemmy.ml, they’re not really defederating.
On feddit.de, lemmy.world is only temporarily defederated because of CSAM until a patch is merged into Lemmy that prevents images from being downloaded to your own instance.
So I’ll just be patient and wait. It’s understandable the admins don’t want to get problems with law enforcement.
Won’t that lead to some horrible hug-of-death type scenarios if a post from a small instance gets popular on a huge one?
Maybe a system where the files federate after 3 upvotes from outside the original instance?
That’d still be exploitable. You could just run 3 of your own instances. Coming up with a system to stop malicious users that can’t be gamed would be tricky.
Yes, but arguably it was never very scalable for federated software to store large media. It gets utterly massive quick. Third party image/video hosts that specialize in hosting those things can do a better job. And honestly, that’s the kinda data that is just better suited for centralization. Many people can afford to spin up a server that mostly just stores text and deals with basic interactions. Large images or streaming video gets expensive fast, especially if the site were to ever get even remotely close to reddit levels.
If you’re only responsible for caching for your own users, you don’t unduly burden smaller instances.
We need more decentralization, a federated image/gif host with CSAM protections
How would one realize CSAM protection? You’d need actual ML to check for it, and I do not think there are trained models available. And now find someone that wants to train such a model, somehow. Also, running an ML model would be quite expensive in energy and hardware.
Makes quite a bit of sense
Depending on jurisdiction it can be pretty hairy if your instance downloads it
IANAL but I’m pretty sure that in the US you have a “duty to report” and you can have legal protections if you end up getting it and then reporting it
But IANAL so I’d recommend looking into it with an actual lawyer if you run a website that hosts content
Even on public instances, I don’t understand why people think defederating hurts the fediverse. Just join a different instance, how hard can it be?
I’m on 3 different instances right now
Too many people never used forums and think every site needs to talk to every site.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: If instances weren’t supposed to be ever defederate, then we wouldn’t have the tool. In the absence of real moderation/admin tools it’s going to get used more frequently. And that’s the admin owner’s right!
I don’t get it either. Defederation is a tool just like banning or spam prevention. If it’s unused it’s pointless to have.
But you don’t ban everyone for a single offense just like to don’t defederate lightly. If you do then people will move elsewhere and the problem resolves itself
But you don’t ban everyone for a single offense
I mean if you want that to be your rule go ahead. There’s no law saying you can’t do “one strike, you’re out” community rules.
Do we have a way to combine feeds yet? I don’t know of one. So it’s kinda annoying to jump from account to account to make sure your seeing everything.
It’s why I’ve found myself gravitating to the less defederation-happy instances. But a new user wouldn’t know to do that.
Yes, actually! Liftoff for Lemmy is still in early development, but you can get it on iOS, Android, Windows, and Linux, and it provides precisely this feature. There are a lot of features that Liftoff is yet to incorporate, probably most notably moderator tools and support for adding Kbin accounts – but give it a try regardless, and do what you can to contribute to its further development. Liftoff is an app with a lot of promise and a surprising amount of functionality already this early in its development.
It’s worth noting that Liftoff is a fork of the now abandoned project Lemmur, which I believe was the first Lemmy client to support combining feeds.
Sure, but keep in mind the comparison to any non-federated site has to be that you had no other instances to jump to in the first place.
Yeah, banned groups would need to move to a different platform.
I’m not sure there is. Personally, I wish there were a way for an individual to block entire instances since I’m a terminally online individual with 3 accounts who sorts by all -> new for content :P
I get what you’re saying, and hopefully it’s a feature that gets added. I’m sure eventually it will, or maybe someone will make an app or an add-on
The “block instance” feature is apparently in the pipeline for Lemmy.
Kbin currently allows you to block entire instances, so that’s nice.
Oh, that’s good news! I know it’s been a request on github for quite some time.
I definitely can block inetances, I did with one click. Maybe it’s the app I use? (Connect)
I still see comments from it’s users but they’re behind a (comment from blocked instance) button.
I believe it’s a per-app feature. After switching over to Eternity (Infinity for Lemmy) I had to do my Blocklist again. Also each app handles blocked instances differently, and I think connect does it the best with how it still shows the comments, but not posts.
I don’t see the blocked comments or posts with the Eternity app.
…But I also can’t make my own posts yet…
Edit: wait… Not sure if it still shows comments from people on instances I’ve blocked.
Interesting. I use Jerboa, which makes it easy to block communities, but not entire instances. I’d check out connect, but I browse just as often in a desktop browser, so it would be really nice to have consistency.
It’s not that big a deal to me, just a feature that would be nice to have imo
Sync lets you block entire instances, and that includes the comments.
It’s a cool self federation
Counterpoint: new users who don’t know the ins and outs of the fediverse might join an instance at random and see significantly less content.
Counter counterpoint: the other option is to give your unique identifiable butthole print to zuck
But he promised those pics were just for him!
Fair, but a lot of new users might also get discouraged if the first thing they see is content from exploding-heads or hexbear, and the instances that strive to be safe, inclusive spaces and thus do a significant amount of defederating are usually quite forthright about this when you sign up. For example, I knew just what to expect when I joined beehaw.
The instance I’m posting from now tries to keep things inclusive more via moderation vs. defederation. There are pros and cons to each approach. I can see both perspective.
I just don’t think either approach harms the fediverse. I think that’s a bit melodramatic.
Funny enough, Hexbear actually defederated from my main instance first, due to it not being inclusive enough for their standards. My own experiences with Hexbear as an autistic enby are that Hexbear is actually the most inclusive Lemmy instance out there, by no small margin. The issue with Hexbear is that its users like to “punch up” at non-leftists, pointing out how people propagate or benefit from exploitative systems, and justify these systems to themselves.
Being “dunked on” may annoy and wound the pride of non-leftists, but this is also very much not the same as the actually evil Nazi shit posted to EH, which “punches down”. I have for many years understood the difference between being annoyed and having my pride wounded for having a bad opinion, and being actively terrorized and marginalized for being a member of a marginalized group. The world would be better off if more people understood that difference.
By no means am I saying it’s just as bad or remotely the same as a Nazi instance. I mean, I consider myself anarcho-communist, so it’s not like they’re too leftist for me or whatever, but it’s hard to call it an inclusive space while communicating in such a toxic, off-putting way. It leads me to question whether they’re even genuine communists when they don’t seem to be motivated by any sense of community.
Maybe I’m a bit quick to judge them, but they remind me of dirtbag leftists from CTH, who were so toxic that I’d actually encounter them freely using slurs in the threads. Not exactly punching up, eh?
So no, I’d take a million hexbears over one exploding-heads, but to be honest l don’t have any reason to associate with any of them. Maybe it’s my age, but it all seems so very childish and off-putting to me.
Hexbear at least has a no-tolerance policy for open slurs, as far as I’m aware. But you’re saying with regard to /r/CTH, that it wasn’t, like, people reclaiming slurs, or using “slurs” for non-marginalized groups – that it was actual, proper, undeniably hurtful slurring you saw? And by the way, what is a “dirtbag leftist”, anyway?
I can definitely understand being put off by the way that the Hexbears often talk. I have managed to have a lot of constructive conversations with the Hexbears, where they honestly just write normally and almost unfairly politely for my asininity; but when the Hexbears aren’t in Serious Mode, which is most of the time, then their comments just look like cryptic emojis and weird slang, right? And I think that’s appealing for a certain type of person, but not for others. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to be childish or flippant, so it doesn’t bother me.
Whether the Hexbear culture is toxic is a different question. I can feel comfortable asking silly questions there or expressing sides of my identity that I might hide in other spaces, but there are also parts of the Hexbear culture that I like less and wish would change. Foremost that they could use a reminder of Hanlon’s razor sometimes.
I think you’re trying to frame my disgust for hexbear on some non-existent sense of fragility. And I don’t give two fucks if they thought they were “reclaiming” or “tactically” using slurs. Fuck all of that, there’s also a reason people dislike 4chan and tumblr.
I’ve been quite active on subreddits like FWR and AHS, so I understand the difference between punching up and down, and I grasp the value in dismantling the patriarchy and other hierarchies. This ain’t it. I’ve not seen anything positive come out of hexbear, and any potentially decent conversation is spoiled by people deliberately acting like a bunch of unlikable d-bags.
Admittedly, I’ve got my own traumas to cope with as a gay person in a conservative region, and I can be sensitive. I actually ended up blocking 196 from your instance due to some unchecked misogynistic and homophobic slurs that were never addressed by the mods.
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Who would willingly spend 30 seconds of their time just to be able to browse more of the Fediverse without worrying about defederation. Silly Lemmings!
Lol I’ve actually had people say to me things like " Do something productive instead of just commenting." It’s like sweet, you have no idea how much time I straight up waste in things like cookie clicker. Commenting is actually productive by comparison :P
Social media needs to be as easy as possible if you’re going to reach the masses. Most people do not give a shit enough to create 3 accounts; they’ll just leave.
That’s just fine with me. Quality > quantity
Some of the best forums I use have just a handful of active users
But quantity and quality are linked. If only, say, 0.1% of people will post high quality content, that means you need to attract a thousand people to get a high quality poster. You can’t just put up a sign that says “high quality posters only”. Plenty of quality posters also want an audience, so they’ll go where the people are and leave if that audience isn’t there.
Ok, and I’ll go where I like the most people I like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I left reddit for many reasons. I don’t want most of those people here.
So, to be blunt, I don’t care
So circling back then, if the high quality posters leave here, sure you’ll leave with them and you’ll be fine, but it still hurts the fediverse if they leave.
This. I love reddit r/askhistorians and r/askphilosophy. But the vast fkn majority of people are not qualified to answer historical or philosophical questions. In these cases you need a lot of people on the site.
Drama? In the fediverse? It’s more likely than you think!
