Oh, there’s gonna be some opinions in this thread.
Obligatory: fuck hexbear and fuck Lemmygrad.
Stay mad
the symbol was making me think it was a cryptocurrency
Well I’m glad Hexbears have stopped spamming pig testicles at least. But. First impressions mean a lot and they did not make a good one.
If you were more offended by PPBs than what the people we posted that in response to were saying then you deserved to be offended
You sent it to everyone who said anything you didn’t like day one of you federating. Lemmy.ml news and politics communities basically just became a toxic waste dump for a month and a half because hexbears thought people weren’t left enough, or thinking that Russia invading Ukraine was bad.
Then it was already a toxic waste dump. You just agreed with the opinions we were pushing back on
By arguing in bad faith and throwing the baby with the bathwater.
Your principled critic
Our bad faith argument
you don’t agree with us. Don’t pretend like it’s anything different.I don’t see how the baby bieng thrown out cliche applies. We see libs parroting bullshit we reply, there’s no baby to be thrown out when it comes to libs and their propaganda or brainworms
Don’t know your specific beliefs but no in all liklihood I don’t agree with you. I don’t think I even remotely preteneded that. We probably agree on some things but I expect our over arching political beliefs are going to be at odds.
Just for my knowledge is a liberal anyone who isn’t a Marxist-leninist? Are Fascists Liberals under your definition?
No, just liberals are liberals. People who ultimately support capital and liberal democracy. You don’t have to be ML. Hexbear is non-sectarian, but we expect internationalist, anti-capitalist, and supportive of intersectional struggle from people on the actual left.
Fascism is basically capital abandoning liberalism to defend itself from socialism. So, fascists arent liberals. But sometimes when they get scratched the fash does comes out. Ask the average lib about the homeless, or Roma for european libs.
If you care more about how we agrue than what we’re argueing about then you don’t agree with us on anything you wouldn’t abandon in a heartbeat
All I’ve seen from Hexbear is class consciousness shit, but everybody else has made it the key point of their online existence to rage on them and do all the garbage they accuse hexbear of. 🤷
Sorry y’all can’t adequately explain why giving every cent of the economy to three people is a good thing.
EDIT: I hear what people are saying but it sounds like, from my limited experience of looking at posts pushed to me from there, that people are using the actions of a few to discredit the beliefs and opinions of everyone they disagree with.
EDIT2: LOL @ the people calling me names then blocking me for disagreeing with them. Thought that was Hexbear did, not you EnLigHtEnEd TyPeS JFC 😂
For me it was the brain dead disgusting coments they make about Ukraine and the war.
You mean our informed comments that actually value the lives of Ukrainians?
No I mean your disgusting uninformed coments that don’t value life at all and make fun out of people that are fighting for their lives.
Per the other reply to you, you might recall when I went over our consensus perspective on Ukraine, how it is motivated by understanding the best possible outcome for Ukrainian lives and contrasting this with the bloodthirsty liberal approach you’ve supported (all dressed up in “concern”).
Is it the “uninformed” and life-devaluing comments you’re referring to?
Tell me, what was your reply to that explanation?
Your best possible outcome is far bloodier than anything I have in mind. You are just too stupid to see it. You are naive and don’t even see you are shoulder to shoulder with the worst people. Maybe check yourself every now and then.
Im replying in general, I blocked hexbear instance then and had no desire to go through same dumb discussion I have been through before and got the same faulty and illogical arguments. So I dont know what comment you are referring to. I’d be glad to see it if it’s not the same old shit again. And it is, isn’t it?
I love the combination of insults and degrading what I said while suggesting you never even read it (as you announced you were blocking the instance. Incidentally, instance-level blocking wasn’t possible at the time, to my knowledge. That’s part of Lemmy v0.19.x.
But not to worry! I’ll just share what I said with you again. Be sure to explain how it’s uninformed, stupid, and devalues Ukrainian lives! I’m just too big of a dum-dum to figure it out.
whataboutism
It points out the double standards westerners gladly accept in order to favor themselves and disadvantage others. How hollow the rhetoric is. How much rides on accepting propaganda, such as adopting the term “whataboutism” as a way to deflect from valid criticism. That’s an old cold war term you picked up, probably from society in general, but it was propaganda to help ensure Soviet criticisms of double standards could be dismissed by Amerikkkans.
Minsk 2, like we don’t know Russian army went in there with heavy weapons in 2014 and sponsored separatists
The form of this argument is “whataboutism” btw, lol.
But anyways, Russia’s presence in 2014 was at best covert and there’s little evidence. They did provide some supplies. However, why would this contradict any points made about Minsk 2? Anyone familiar with the diplomatic efforts knows that the West was far more brutal and aggressive, targeting civilians in Donbas, and repeatedly avoided diplomatic solutions. The (ignorant) rallying cry seems to be that Russia should have unilaterally done everything even while the West did nothing and even escalated. They didn’t even honor ceasefires.
that by helping the attacked invaded country, the west is somehow making it worse?
“Helping” is doing the heavy lifting in this sentence. If it’s making the situation worse, it isn’t helping, is it? The “it” matters. The “it” from the West is weapons, loans, and auctioning off the country to Western corporate interests. The latter two get called “aid” even though they throw the poorest country in Europe into deep debt and exploitation. The former is weapons, it is direct support for the war, and whether that is “helping” depends on your understanding of where this war is going, what the realistic outcomes are, and what unexplored alternatives exist to propping up the UA military.
The simple version is that UA is fucked. It is not going to win and “reconstruction”, if it ever comes from the West, will come at the price of foreign ownership, low wages, and further stripped social safety nets. Since it will lose, the question is really: how long do you want this to go on? How many Ukeainians do you want dead? I want none. The US government will accept any number so long as it hurts Russia. Do you accept any amount of dead Ukrainians so long as it hurts Russia? I don’t. I want those people alive.
Sending weapons just ensures more and more Ukrainians dying so that the West can “stick it” to Russia. Not so that UA will win. Not so that the outcome is better. So that the outcome is objectively worse, so long as it’s “hurting the right people”. And all the while, the less horrible options are kept off the table, which is to say, diplomacy. Both by simply avoiding or preventing talks as early as March last year, but by ensuring the Western populace is unable to accept diplomacy at this point. This is why they tell you UA is winning, that Russians are subhuman monsters, etc etc. So that you support endless violence and think diplomacy is a bad idea.
This is also all before we get to the MIC, which drives war to fill its pockets. This is another of the real reasons the “helping” is happening: so that Lockheed-Martin can sell more weapons, keep more millions, all while children are plunged back into poverty. They steal from our children and our lives so that more Russians and Ukrainians may die, and there’s always a new target of the violence ready to go for these bloodthirsty monsters.
Had you decided to listen rather than throw a tantrum, you might have learned these things.
So what you have is the same things all over again? Why are you doubling down on your own stupidity?
Whataboutism is of course not a way to deflect any criticism. It’s a fallacy. Double standard? What are you 5? Of course there is a double standard. Damn, you should get a medal for being last to arrive.
About Minsk 2 is not whataboutism because it refers to the same actual thing. That’s not how it works. There is more than enuguh evidence for Russian army supporting seperatists and going into donbas themselves. You speak of the west a lot like there is an entity called " the west". You are so naive, it shows you no idea at all how diplomacy and international relations with work.
I dont even know where to start explaining it to you, but for sure I don’t have enough time. Let me just point out the faults in your reasonings:
Ukraine is fighting for itself. There is no evil west there. They are fighting am occupying army. They would do it either way, if they got the help from anyone or not. They are just doing it far better with better weapons. If they didn’t have them they would still fight. They might totally be occupied, then they would fight like partisans and do terrorist actions. That is the situation. That is the alternative. Not some happy little world you imagine.
America sure like Russia being trashed with their old discontinued weapons they would have to pay lots of money to dispose otherwise. America spends hundreds of billions of dollars every year just for Russia on their military budget. Basically their whole military budget was there because of Russia. Now they are being trashed for peanuts. That’s the biggest strategic win America had in decades. But thinking that this is all the is is also naive. Because America is not one child person that feels one emotion. Diplomats are thinking about what happens after the war and it’s a very difficult situation to defeat Russia in a way that doesn’t create more problems later. And Russia is losing, there is no doubt about it. That’s not from some main stream media that you hate so much, you would rather listen to Moscow media. That’s coming from war analysts, economists. That’s coming from the change in tone of Russian propagandists. That’s coming from Putin asking north freaking Korea for help
The world is chaos and most of the time things happen for the most banal reasons. Like a lunatic that finds a reason to invade another country in a minority that lives there, like the sudeten Germans.
Sometimes when you want to see if you are on the right sight of history, check who your comrades are. Yours are the extreme right, trump, Orban, kim jon um,… I wouldnt want to be in that company.
You’ve only seen class consciouss shit? I’m very sorry you haven’t seen more of our sick emojis
emoji spam
: 
I do hate these, are they supposed to take up a whole screens worth of blank space each or is that my Connect app being weird about it.
It’s unintended and it’s why I’ve been hesitant to post emojis on other instances. It’s why I used spoiler tags.
They’re not supposed to be so big. They look more normal sized on Hexbear. I’m told some Lemmy devs are working on a fix for it soon.
The issue with Hexbear is that their users tend to talk in a very demeaning and insulting manner. About half of the popular posts on Hexbear are about making fun of people or communities. Their political views are less of an issue; it’s more about their toxic behaviour.
And who exactly do we talk in a demeaning and insulting manner to? What is that the people we respond to that way say?
No one who posts this kind of civilty or optics concerns about our behaviour ever mentions that.
If you’re more offended by our responses than the things we push back against you deserve to be offended
I mean, that’s most people inside the more mainstream American Overton window of mid right to far right, but nobody bats an eye at that because they’re upholding the status quo. 🤷
Do you see instances who’s main purpose is to represent “people inside the more mainstream American Overton window of mid right to far right” that are even nearly as popular as Hexbear?
If you’re browsing
allyou frequently see posts from Hexbear users. I’m yet to come across a noticable amount of posts from users from an instance which represent the group you mentioned.(I couldn’t even name a single instance that fits that description, because if they exist, they’re not nearly as active as Hexbear.)
Toxic people exist on all public instances. But on some they’re more common than on others.
Yeah, it’s called most of the internet. 🤷
What you’re saying then is it’s OK to stereotype users and bully them for their beliefs and opinions, then use any response other than quiet submission as proof that they’re bad.
Cause all the posts I’ve seen from it is mundane, and the only times I’ve ever seen it’s users act a fool is in response to everyone screeching at them for not adhering to popular opinion (usually with no coherent point other than “tankie bad durr” whatever a tankie is, I’m assuming a slur for leftists.)
Can I punch you then run around telling everyone what a violent cunt you are when you punch me back? Cause that’s what it looks like to me, I’ve been getting alot of wild claims about hexbear but nobody has any point of reference to back it up though.
😔
their users tend to talk in a very demeaning and insulting manner.
About half of the popular posts on Hexbear are about making fun of people or communities
it’s more about their toxic behaviour
This can be interpreted as bad faith if you don’t mention towards whom this behavior is directed at.
Their political views are less of an issue
Thank you for admitting it’s about the optics (which is not a concern for us)
It was the calls to murder anyone who supports a democratic candidate, with the justification that cops have killed homeless people that turned me off.
that and the stupid image emojis
Death to America
Always fun to see accusations with no link and speculate on what actually happened.
So many tantalizingly omitted details!
You have sources on that first bit lol? I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
Unless you’re meaning jokes about fascist voters falling down a manhole or something?
Death to all communist trash
interesting point,now come this way
Follow your leader
I am genuinely confused about how Hexbearians thought being dicks on the internet was going to change any hearts and/or minds
They’re simply trolls
The Shittier 4chan™️
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I sort of look at them as amusement. It’s not like what they want will happen In our lifetimes (or ever probably). I don’t necessarily get why everyone hates them, just try looking at them as funny content lol
You must not have seen the amount of genocide denial they do, or the amount of simping for dictators.
I genuinely don’t understand why the admins are dragging ass and not just defederating from them already. They provide nothing of value, just spam and harassment.
Because if memory serves both Lemmy.ml and Lemmygrad share some admins with each other
And with Lemmygrad and Hexbear loving each other: federation is going to stay a thing over here
One of the things I love about the instance I’m on is that we’re defederated from Hexbear, it’s pretty nice NGL
Because you’re on a tankie instance. Go to sopuli.xyz; the admin banned all extremists left and right so it’s smooth sailing.
