I don’t have an issue with any of this. Private Business owners can sell their products or services to whoever they want. Don’t see what the big deal is. If you don’t like it, there’s plenty more competition willing to take your money.
Well within their right. A business can serve whoever the fuck it wants. You don’t like it, don’t shop there.
This is a bad take. When we, society, allow you to register as a business, we form an agreement. Part of that agreement is that you follow certain rules. We make those rules to better society.
Some rules are things like pay taxes, or don’t sell outdated food. Some rules are there to make sure anyone can shop there, without discussion.
Those rules are important because it’s very possible for a small number of business owners to make a group of people’s lives very difficult, especially out in rural areas where people don’t have a lot of options.
For a concrete example, let’s say Pfizer cures cancer. Do you want them to be able to say they won’t sell to Christians? You can’t just “go elsewhere”. But now this is allowed.
The much more dangerous part of this ruling is that the supreme Court ruled on a case where there was no standing. A lot of people don’t realize that having standing is one of the cornerstones of our legal structure. Now, in theory, any idiot could sue for any dreamed up scenario and have a much better chance of winning in court.
Gay. Wedding. Cakes.
Society needs to codify these rules into law though otherwise bad actors break those rules. When a right wing activist supreme court removes these protections, people get hurt. But, a store like this isnt doing this to hurt people, it’s to make a statement that the far-rights own discrimination can backfire on them. It’s a form of protest and a statement, not true bigotry. Its like using the flying spaghetti monster tactic to push legislation to be more strict on religion. These people are trying ro show that regulation on business to prevent denying goods and services is important for everyone, not just minorities the the right hates.
I think I’m confused. I’m pretty sure the court case that the supreme Court just ruled on proved the opposite.
You’re right in that the current state of the country does not actually reflect the ideals it professes to be based on, and this Supreme Court ruling is proof of that.
I think I’m confused. I’m pretty sure the court case that the supreme Court just ruled on proved the opposite.
Based on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, they cannot discriminate for any reason that is a protected status. However, they can makeup any reason for not serving them. That means some racist asshole could say they aren’t serving the black customer because they were rude or some other made up shit. Thankfully, your political stance is not a protected status.
Well they could do that a few times. But if someone really wanted to press the issue I am sure they could use the pattern of behavior to establish that he is indeed kicking out due to race.
Right. The various Civil Rights Acts in establishing proteted classes in placed of public accommodation and associated case law created a standard whereby there does not need to be, for example, an explicit “No blacks!” sign out front. A demonstrated pattern of refusing to serve black customers was sufficient to run afoul of the laws.
In fact, the discriminatory effect doesn’t even need to be intentional. If the end result of a policy results in a discriminatory result, it too is a violation of the law. For instance, where I grew up down south, whenever you went indoors you took your hat off. It’s respectful and such. Imagine a dining establishment that turned this custom into a steadfast rule – no one is seated while wearing a hat. Seems reasonable right? Everyone is treated the same! Until you refuse to serve a Sikh customer because they refuse to remove their turban. Now you’re discriminating against someone because of their religion, and there’s no overarching reason (safety, health, etc.) that a person can’t eat and wear a turban at the same time.
All fun and games until you can’t find anywhere to shop or buy anything.
You want to act like it’s the odd shop and you can just go next door, but just look at history. Really, take an objective look at history.
This is what Republicans wanted after all. Remember gay wedding cakes??
Those signs won’t stop them because they can’t read
🤣
I feel like “no mask, no vaccination proof, no service” should make a comeback.
To be fair if I see a sign saying they support Trump, GOP, or anti-LGBT I keep walking on by. I have seen many places that say if you are a bigot, sexist, or racist you are not welcome here. Those are the places I spend my money at.
Exactly. A Trump sign at a business guarantees that business won’t get my money now or in the future.
There’s a large grocery store chain here that the owner was at the Jan 6th insurrection. A lot of people, including myself, refuse to shop there now.
Was it Publix? I know the owner’s a huge supporter of conservative causes— really hope she’s not also an insurrectionist. (Asking bc I’m trying to avoid giving business to Walgreens, and just started sending prescriptions to Publix instead.)
No it isn’t anything that big.
“Religious bigots get the fuck out“
I’m out of the loop, what did the SCOTUS do now?
We can discriminate against Republicans legally and with blessings.
Republican is not a protected class, you have always been able to do that.
A six-justice majority agreed that Colorado cannot enforce a state anti-discrimination law against a Christian website designer who does not want to create wedding websites for same-sex couples because doing so would violate her First Amendment right to free speech.
Childish bullshit. It makes us no better than they are.
So protesting intolerance is “no better” than promoting intolerance. Got it. Both side, blah blah, or something.
Bad example. The cases where businesses could refuse service to a customer were due to religious freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. Not liking Trump would not fall under that category. Not sure about the other example though.
In general though, I think this would be fine. As long as this business is not funded or supported by taxpayer money.
“My personal religion requires me to refuse service to Trump supporters.” Boom, protected.
These “religious freedoms” cited are completely arbitrarily defined. Anyone can claim they have a religion with tenets that exclude specific groups of people or promote civil rights abuses. Having a religion that says “you must commit crime” does not actually give you the right within society to commit crime.
You could always do this. But you’d be a damn idiot to antagonize half a potential customer base but … Well that’s one way to run a business.
the potential customers that would already point their finger at you screaming “shame” if they saw you do business with people they dislike? Good riddance.
Depending on where they’re based it could be much less than half
Half? Yeah right! Even if they were half the nation - which they aren’t - it’s gonna be like 90% in some areas and 10% in others.
I may be misinformed - but I was led to believe this is a book shop and therefore unlikely to lose many customers
🎤🫳
No shoes, no shirts, no service. Also no cuts, no butts, no coconuts! Lol 😆
Nowhere close to half of Americans are Trump supporters.
Even if you go by voting numbers in the only election he actually won (and even that wasn’t by popular vote), it WAS closer to ⅓, and that was SEVEN YEARS AGO. I’d wager quite a few who called themself a supporter back then have changed their minds since. They’re just not speaking up about it, and so the perception is skewed.
Well… it’s worth noting that (IIRC) a record number of people voted in the 2020 election, overall and for each major-party candidate. Are those who chose to vote for Trump not to be counted among “Trump supporters”? It was approximately (but decidedly not quite) half of voters.
Yes, but I was highlighting the disparity between “active voters” and “Americans in general”, and between them and now. Saying half of the country supports Trump simply isn’t factually true.
Now, whether people who don’t vote should even be part of the conversation is another debate, of course.
MAGA isn’t a protected class. This has always been allowed.
Such an unbelievable ruling, but this is really the best possible response. If conservatives thought they were persecuted before…
For me the difference is in refusing to serve someone because how they were born vs the choices they make.
Totally ok with the later, but the laws are supposed to prevent the former. Just like it being illegal to discriminate against someone just because they are black or white or Asian or whatever.
I agree with you. Isn’t race specifically a protected class with the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendment specifically? Political ideology or beliefs are not protected, unless violence is utilized. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Correct. The point is sexual orientation should be protected like race.
For employment purposes, it is. Court precedents have affirmed that discriminating against someone based on sexual orientation is a form of sex-based discrimination which is illegal under Title VII.
But creative works (like baking a cake or building a website) are protected by the constitution as free speech. You can’t compel someone to perform a creative work against their own beliefs.
That’s why you’re allowed to refuse to build a website for a gay couples wedding, but you can’t refuse to change their tyres.
I think you mean for a hypothetical website that was never ordered and certainly never order by the straight man the website sited. The court just ruled on two cases that were effectively made up. As the loan company also didn’t have any issue with debt forgiveness, and the state “filed for them” to “create” an injured party. it is past time to pit enough people on the bench that One president can’t fuck the legal system up for 6 peoples lifetimes.
That’s great and all, but I personally don’t think that is right for fair.
Imagine a baker saying they don’t want to bake a wedding cake because of an interracial couple or for black people. I get the law is different, I’m saying personally I don’t agree with that law and think that’s a load of shit.
The problem is you’re wrong though, because legally you have to look at the lowest common denominator.
Imagine you are a baker and someone wants you to bake a nazi cake? Would you want to? Hell no, but saying that a producer is required by law to perform any creative production asked of by the client means that you as a Jewish gay person (hypothetically) would be forced to bake that nazi cake.
Similarly, it doesn’t really matter what’s “right” it doesn’t change that for some people, lgbt issues are considered religious sin, and they feel like they would be committing a religious sin in baking a pride cake. Now are they loony? Yeah they are. But it doesn’t change that you cannot force someone to artistically create something against their will. ESPECIALLY when you can just go to another baker who will.
Again I draw the line on discrimination based on how a person was born vs their decisions.
Bakers can say no to nazis, democrats, republicans, tattoos, whatever.
But bakers being able to say no just because how you are born: white, black, male, female, gay, straight… that’s horse shit.
Why would argue that’s ok or morally correct or fair?
The problem is that while it is obvious to you that sexual orientation is a matter of birth and not choice, it isn’t to, to be honest, the vast majority of people on this planet.
And also, just to put things in perspective, even the science isn’t fully convinced. Most evidence tells us it’s something from birth, and my personal life anecdote tells me I’m bisexual since the day I was born, but truthfully we don’t have any hard evidence to prove it, since it is nearly impossible to prove.
This is why it has to be included with the rest.
It’s a fine line, but it comes down to this: it’s not OK for the baker to refuse to bake a cake for someone in a protected class.
However, it’s also not OK for someone in a protected class to compel speech from the baker.
Ask the baker to bake a plain cake with no messaging on it: the baker can’t refuse on the basis of any protected attributes, like the customer’s race, etc.
Ask the baker to decorate the cake with a “happy pride day” message? Only if the baker agrees to that expression. You can’t compel speech.
It works the other way too: you can’t compel the baker to write something they disagree with if they don’t want to. It’s clear why a baker would be within their rights to refuse a “I’m glad all the Jews died” message on the cake. The baker is within their rights to decline any expression they don’t like. And that’s the way it should be.
Tattoos are a choice, would you be denied services because you have a tattoo? Or I don’t serve women wearing pants, because I think they should only wear dresses.
Obviously I disagree, but I also want to point out that many conservatives think being gay or trans is a choice.
And they’d be wrong. Being gay is a choice as much as being straight is.
I’m always quick to point out if someone believes being gay is a choice, they are admitting THEY actively are choosing not to be gay everyday… that they actually could find the same sex attractive but choose not to.
There’s a contradiction here. The Supreme Court ruled that Speech can’t be compelled, not that you could bar certain people from a business. You could decline to decorate a cake with “MAGA”, but not decline to sell a cake to a Republican, for example. What those signs are promoting is still illegal.
Personally I think you should be able to decline any service to anyone for any reason. Anything less than that is government compelled work.
That just allows people to be overtly bigoted and crated an apartheid society. And we did have this: “no blacks”, “no Irish”…
Well, that is what conservatives consider to be the peak of America.
“Make America Great Again” - “great” is when America was apartheid.
and then we’re back to segregation
That makes no sense. You think it’s okay to deny service based on race?
and then we’re back to segregation
Forgive me, but I don’t believe political affiliation is a protected class–protected classes are the only things people can’t discriminate based on. So like, race, sex, religion are protected, but democrat/republican/green party aren’t protected. Businesses can legally discriminate against non-protected classes. It’s just usually a bad business strategy to turn customers away.
Edit: the second sign is definitely more questionable, as it does specifically discriminate based on beliefs. I was mostly focused on the first sign.
Good point.
We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason! :D
Especially racist sexist homophobic chud dipshit fascist bootlickers.
