Please have some respect; nazis are nowhere near as bad as Microsoft
As a commie linux user I fight nazi and microsoft
But not china or Russia?
Fighting China is like fighting a lost fight.
Russia is currently destroying itself,no help needed.
Before the current Ukraine war people would have said fighting Russia would be a lost fight, but we’ve learned a lot since then about what their readiness actually looks like. This makes me wonder if China is all that tough, or if they just talk a good game.
But what about your Komerades?
China is socialist and Russia is historically the anti-imperialist communist power. You wanted to spread your vile Anglo bullshit but are now unsuccessful.
China is not socialist mate, it’s technically a market economy with “chinese characteristics” and is run by one massive coalition. there’s private property ownership in China, there is stock exchange for example.
Its funny how you just wiped off “socialist” from the term used to describe mainland – market socialist economy with Chinese characteristics. Screaming about the miniscule existence of private property or stock exchange is a delusional and dishonest way to portray China as not being socialist. Their socialism comes from prosperity of over a billion people on their land, and prosperity of rest of the world via cheap manufactured goods that increase purchasing power of literally every person on earth that is not a rich capitalist pig.
You can scratch your neckbeard all you want, it’s very much a market economy. Whether there’s the term socialist or not
Too bad its not about being a neckbeard, its about not being delusional and not spreading delusion to cope with some ADV China tier bullshit.
Not aligning with the United States does not socialism nor anti-imperialism make
What is anglo?
GGOS, KissOS, Atlus are a refreshing alternative
Nazis > Microsoft > Spectrum Internet > Nestle
Nestle > republicans
Agreed. Microsoft is bad to the point to where I switched to Arch Linux. They ain’t getting my data now!
Thanks for telling us. You are legally obligated to inform us that you use Arch btw.
Bold of you to assume that I don’t already do that. :)
Neither are you
Jokes on you, I have all my data
Jokes on you, I don’t have any data
Hehehehehe
ah yes. The old tradition of calling you political opponents nazis or communists, or liberals. Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism (ideologically speaking)? Instead of looking at the context, they defaulted to calling all jews spies. Or instead of looking at the struggles that come with integrating different societies and the benefits that come along with that, they just assumed that different races are fundementally incapable of cooperating? Or they saw everyone that didn’t agree with them as fundimentally evil, instead of understanding that there is at least a hint of truth in most phylosphies/political beliefs that they can learn from even if the belief is one that could be considered evil. A great example is abortion: on one hand, you’re litterally erasing the heart beat of another living being before their first breaths. On the other hand, I remember hearing of a 14 year old girl in my area who got pregnant, and you know that baby is done for… especially with the mismnaged mess that is american welfare. I absolutely disagree with many republican beliefs and idioligies, I hate the culture war BS that they petal. I hate watching them wine about cancel culture, and then they cancel a beer company because they gave a single free beer can to a trans woman. I get it, but messages like this only make them think you’re crazy because the idiologies of modern republicans do differ from nazism, maybe for some republicans more than others. But this isn’t helping; because if there is one thing nazism and white supremism feeds off the most… Its the “evil others”.
tldr; there are some differences between nazis and modern republicans (many of these characteristics are better in republicans), and trying to paint them otherwise is just asking for trouble. Acuse others only of what they are guilty.
I made on edit for clarity. I made a second edit because the quote “evil “others”” could technically be construed that I think that the others are in fact evil. I used that language to note how Nazis and white supremism will often assume that others are evil for the mere fact that they are the “others” and I wanted to better get my idea across that this is bad. I made a third edit: I add the (ideologically speaking) line after Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism?. I did this because others were thinking that I thought that was the most awful thing about nazism. The most awful part about nazism was the murdering and mistreatment of innocents. I meant to bring it up as this is the biggest flaw in their ideology. Most Nazis will just devolve into incoherent screaming when you bring up their error of generalizing groups of people.
After reading more of the comments, I think we may be at a mis-understanding. I believe that many people mean to say that the republican party appears to be voting in a similar manner to that of Nazi’s and as such should receive zero support. Not that everyone who votes republican is necessarily a Nazi. The argument however is the the republican voter base may be mis-guided, or down right dum, but are not necessarily Nazis.
“Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism?”
No, and this is disgusting. The worst part was disenfranchising jews, LGBTQI*-People, communists, disabled people, sinti&roma and others, locking them up under terible conditions and killing millions of them. Deliberatly killing millions of people to get rid of them.
It’s the root of why they did that. This one single flaw, is what caused them to commit those acts. There is a difference between proximal and root causes. Say my boat is sinking. The proximal issue is that the boat is sinking (the problem I want to fix), the root cause is that there is a hole in my boat (what is causing my problem). The proximal issue with Nazis is that they murder millions and committed horrible acts. The root cause why they did these things, was because they generalized these groups to the point that genocide seemed reasonable to themselves. Instead of looking at the contexts or considering that there are other morals at play.
The Nazis over-generalising Jews was secondary as a simple means to an end of removing a faction that disagrees with Nazis. The correct way to say it was that, to gain and maintain power, the conservatives scapegoated Jews, socialists, and dissidents, to help generate hatred and genocidal tendencies to ultimately overthrow democracy and remove threats to capitalist power. Jews, socialists, and dissidents in general were framed using any random words that sounded good and then killed off. Conservative values are based on using power in any way to achieve their goal; If you think that their contradictory, scapegoating, culture wars make no sense, its because you aren’t looking at it simply enough. they lie and get what they want each step of the way.
I’m going to go out on a limb and assume you trust the conservative lies about what a communism and socialism is.
I’m talking about it from a ideology point of view. The truth is that the hatred did most likely lead them into their opinions and may be the real reason they adopted these viewpoints. However, from the standpoint of “Why are Nazi’s wrong?” it is this biggest issue with their ideology. As to “Conservative values are based on using power in any way to achieve their goal; If you think that their contradictory, scapegoating, culture wars make no sense, its because you aren’t looking at it simply enough. they lie and get what they want each step of the way.”. Again we are talking about them from an ideology standpoint, the reason they claim to do what they do. To argue them on a different basis, I believe, is a bad faith argument. The only thing I believe I can do is, debate them at what they say and hold them to what they say. Because there may be republicans that hold there beliefs honestly and it would be unjust for me to label them as Nazis. As to “conservative lies” about communism and socialism, I do not know what you are specifically talking about (The only conservative speaker I have listened to was Ben Shapiro. I didn’t listen to much of him as it seems he is only interested in parroting the opinions of his constituents in a way that sounds smart rather than thinking for himself). I know that both capitalism and socialism have both failed under certain circumstances (biggest examples are modern america and the USSR), and both had pros and cons. I see from an ethics viewpoint that socialism has a better grounding. I believe in unions and workers standing up for themselves. However government involvement has had a history of failures and a socialist system is something that would need to be implemented very careful or may be impossible. I will note that I have not been able to find many sources that honestly cover the topic in good faith (IE anything other than CAPITALISM SUCKS or SOCIALISM SUCKS!) that I have a very weak ground to stand on when talking about the topic. Because of this, I still see my opinions as developing in this area.
I think i misunderstood you. I assumed you were acting in bad faith. Your grammar is making this a bit more difficult(mine eyes doth protest).
I’m trying to argue in good faith but will admit i assumed you weren’t from previous experiences and half-assed things.
The Nazi ideology to me, is the same as the conservative ideology, and both are simply reduced to tribalism/totalitarianism. Nazi/conservative values are just the truth of ANYTHING for the sake of gaining and maintaining power for the self first, then the tribe(as a means for more self power). The rest is a cover.
If you would like to single out anything we can swap to discussing that so i can show you what i mean. Originally i was talking about you going into minutia about generalising Jews, but the dislike for them was always just fabricated. Generalising or not makes no real difference, same with labeling your enemies as some simple thing you don like to delegitimise them. It’s standard conservative practice to use words in reduced good/bad form. For example, when a conservative talks, they can use socialist, communist, liberal, fascist to describe the same person in the same conversation. The conservative means “I don’t like you” but calls you a name, not realising they have no idea what it means, and you may know it properly and be annoyed with its misuse.
My final point was based around the standard opinions being the conservative lies. How you mentioned soviets as an example of socialism is a standard misunderstanding. They got co-opted the same way Nazis originally did. Both had some socialists attracted and in both cases they seemed to have been purged in favour of the totalitarians.
I’m going out for an hour and wanted to reply, but felt this reply should be deleted as it’s pretty meh. I sent the reply either way thinking you’d prefer one, sorry for the mess.
Thank you for the reply.
As for my grammar: Sometimes I have trouble putting my thoughts on paper. I half blame it on being “noschooled” where I was given a lot less writing assignments (I will note that it wasn’t all bad, as I channeled all that time into programming and computers. Thus making me better in my field than my peers. I think it has pros and cons, I plan to better explain my thoughts in a later comment). I also heavily use autocomplete. However I’m normally a better writer if I give myself time to review my work (I have gone through and made multiple edits on my comments). The other half I blame on me rushing to explain my ideas. I’m not used to the forum format and I was rushing myself before the post became irrelevant. I plan to take more time in the future when commenting on forums regardless of whether my comment becomes irrelevant. As I now see that harm it causes, and how I appear to others.
As to Nazis using their ideology as a cover. It is fully plausible and I do not have any retorts to that statement.
I have a habit of avoiding good/bad words such as Nazi/Woke/Socalist/Etc unless I can prove your arguments line up. I find that most people will shutdown around these words. Most republicans I speak with will ignore everything you have to say, if they hear a phrase like “Republicans are Nazis”. It’s also why it is so hard to talk with them.
A lot of the reason why they see opposing viewpoints automatically in a negative light, I believe is due to them only ever hearing the “Republicans are Nazis” part. I have never heard the reasoning why, people thought this (outside of REPUBLICAN BAD!). I (and I assume many republicans, as I never hear them talking about this point. Family or on the internet) will ever hear anything like what you have explained to me on the matter.
I still think it is wise to not address republicans as Nazis, as this often rings as a generalization that causes the conversation to be unproductive. I still think it is best to address their beliefs on their own merit; as I believe the best way to expose an idiot, is to explain how they are an idiot in a calm manner. Only describing the nature of Nazism and how it effects their voter base, emphasizing that not all republicans are necessarily Nazis. However, I have both learned from your comment and realized how I was not following my own beliefs in fear of being ignored. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me.
Quick note: I’m tired right now (12:30am atm) and I just wanted to update the conversation as to not leave it at that. I will go over this post and fix any issues and expand on it tomorrow when I am properly rested.
As for my grammar: Sometimes I have trouble putting my thoughts on paper. I half blame it on being “noschooled” where I was given a lot less writing assignments (I will note that it wasn’t all bad, as I channeled all that time into programming and computers. Thus making me better in my field than my peers. I think it has pros and cons, I plan to better explain my thoughts in a later comment). I also heavily use autocomplete. However I’m normally a better writer if I give myself time to review my work (I have gone through and made multiple edits on my comments). The other half I blame on me rushing to explain my ideas. I’m not used to the forum format and I was rushing myself before the post became irrelevant. I plan to take more time in the future when commenting on forums regardless of whether my comment becomes irrelevant. As I now see that harm it causes, and how I appear to others.
Thanks for the effort, It’s hard to put text down how we want, which is why I wanted to delete my last comment and rewrite it later haha. I was a bit the same and am learning as I go too. :) As long as you have paragraphs and the ideas come out how you want them then I’m happy.
As to Nazis using their ideology as a cover. It is fully plausible and I do not have any retorts to that statement.
I used to hear people from your POV before, and thought they were exaggerating, but the more I thought about it, the more I will noticed it’s not hyperbolic.
I have a habit of avoiding good/bad words such as Nazi/Woke/Socalist/Etc unless I can prove your arguments line up. I find that most people will shutdown around these words. Most republicans I speak with will ignore everything you have to say, if they hear a phrase like “Republicans are Nazis”. It’s also why it is so hard to talk with them.
I completely agree. I’ve had some scary experiences, easily breaking through conservatives defences, if I just use neutral language. The downside is that skilled people can make fast progress if they explain and agree on terminology, which on the internet is probably best avoided most of the time.
I still think it is wise to not address republicans as Nazis, as this often rings as a generalization that causes the conversation to be unproductive. I still think it is best to address their beliefs on their own merit; as I believe the best way to expose an idiot, is to explain how they are an idiot in a calm manner. Only describing the nature of Nazism and how it effects their voter base, emphasizing that not all republicans are necessarily Nazis. However, I have both learned from your comment and realized how I was not following my own beliefs in fear of being ignored. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me.
You are wiser than I am lol. I know it leads to nothing of value, but feel it needs to be associated as hard as we can, as most of their actions are based on conformity and Pavlovian conditioning(they do the inverse to an enemy I guess. I should stop).
The problem with the latter half of your paragraph, is that most conservatives don’t really believe what they say. They conform to their tribal values. It’s partly due to them having a bad foundation, leading to any thoughts ending in cognitive dissonance, then frustration, then anger, then either changing subjects or abuse.
Underneath the average conservative is an insecure, submissive, desperate for attention person that needs a better tribe to defect to, and the best way to win one, is to invite them to a friendly group of anti-conservatives. Some stealth might be required.
Conservatives tend to learn through direct actions, not rational discussion, so talking with them is only beneficial when dealing with an audience unless you know specific tactics.
Nighty night, thanks for the chat.
note: Most of what I say, such as “conservatives” is meant to be a generalisation and not an absolute thing for all. Sometimes I will clear it up and sometimes not. Sometimes I don’t even know I did it. I try to use “-ism” terminology to talk about the actual ideology.
Calling the NAZIs conservatives doesn’t quite fit the history of Germany. Conservative is an ideology that depends on time and place. For example conservatives in Russia are pro-communism.
In the case of the NAZIs they were progressive nationalist socialists advocating for a “third way" that was not liberalism or communism, which is why they campaigned hard as anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. Anti-semitistm was of course a major part of this as well and part of the reason Jewish conspiracy theories seem to simultaneously be associated with both marxism and capitalism.
The key overlap between Fascism, Nazism , and conservatism is that they are all exactly the correct definition on recent conservatism which is best described by the following quote from Frank Wilhoit:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Conservative values in the modern sense is
taking power, while saying whatever the hell helps you take power. It applies perfectly to Nazis and Fascists historically.If you zoom in on Nazi actions, you see clearly they have the same style as modern conservatives. I hope you don’t misunderstand, I’m not calling Nazis conservatives, I’m calling conservatives NAZIS; And by that I mean the way they use power. ANYTHING to gain and maintain power, the rest is an illusion.
In the case of the NAZIs they were progressive nationalist socialists advocating for a “third way" that was not liberalism or communism, which is why they campaigned hard as anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. Anti-semitistm was of course a major part of this as well and part of the reason Jewish conspiracy theories seem to simultaneously be associated with both marxism and capitalism.
Nazis acted as standard capitalists. They busted unions, they worked alongside corporations without really controlling them in a bad way for them etc. We have tons of jokes about old Nazi companies like Hugo boss that just mysteriously got overlooked and thrived for some time after WW2. They never lost their identity or profits, they gained a lot. It’s the people that lost, as always. Fascist(as we call it today) actions are really just capitalist democracies, that throw away the illusion of democracy, more specifically, they can no longer maintain the illusion - see conservatism.
As for Russians, I’ve been saying this a lot but… I don’t speak Russian, I don’t speak Mandarin, Haven’t visited them, I haven’t done the levels of research needed for me to have an opinion on this matter. There is also a wall of massive propaganda making it 10x harder to validate information. When people talk about modern Russia or China they are talking out their asses and the conversation devolves into shit-flinging. So I shut it down in my very first response. It’s a start of a bad-faith conversation at least 90% of the time. I’m not saying you would be in the 90%, just that I’m opting out of that part of the convo.
I don’t really know how to respond to this other than to say your worldview is firmly grounded in ideology.
ah yes. The old tradition of calling you political opponents nazis or communists, or liberals. Wasn’t this the worst part of nazism?
I suspect the worst part of nazism was something different.
see https://pawb.social/comment/921213 where I answer a similar comment
Well this is about as far off as it gets.
I thought this is a “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts” and this is the first shit I see as a new user?
Let’s be real, it should be the American flag not just the Republican logo.
They’re not utterly fascist, you can’t do that to the last remnants of sanity left over in the states
Yeah it really depends on your area.
The Republican party was in power when they beat the Confederate States though…? Dumb meme
Did you completely forget the part where the parties switched ideologies? Or did you have to forget that part?
I still don’t understand how so many people equate the party that supports free speech with the Nazis, and equate the party that wants to disarm the poor with the freedom fighters.
Definitely curious how the party actively working to ban books and prevent people from expressing themselves artistically in public is supporting free speech.
Removing a book with graphic illustrations of blowjobs from a high school library is about as sensible as you can get.
When you say ban books, do you mean removing them from a public school library?
Im not sure what you mean by prevent people from expressing themselves artistically in public. I’m happy to be enlightened.
Drag .
You mean the party banning books? That free speech party?
Banning books is very different to removing them from the school curriculum. I’m sure you know that though
When you say banning books, do you mean removing them from a public school library?
Don’t forget local town/city libraries!
You mean in the kids section? I couldnt find any references to the adults section having books removed in the public libraries.
Don’t worry, the grownups understand.
Good propoganda and PR campaigns.
Yeah, right, “free speech,” unless you write a book with two guys kissing, then it must be banned from schools. Or tear up a photo on TV. Or protest wars in the Middle East. Or kneel during the national anthem. They are all for Cancel Culture and silencing people who speak out against them and their ideas.
The only time conservatives actually get up in arms about “free speech,” which they don’t actually know what it even is, is when they get banned on Twitter for spewing lies and hate. So get out of here with your “supports free speech” nonsense.
To be devils advocate here. It still does not impeach on free speech. You are still capable of sharing your ideas to others. The only reason they leave it as an exception is because they believe it to be sexual in nature, as most republicans just assume the homosexuality is always sexual. Is it a bad take. Yes. However I wouldn’t want my children being handed novels of straight people having sex either. The point against republicans is that the presence homosexual relationships, does not necessitate sexual behavior. It is not free speech that is the issue with their opinion. I will note that there are some better examples were some republicans have been anti free speech (cough bud light…). I think it has less to do with republicanism, and more about our political system as a whole. I see both sides just get mad about whatever is “against” them. I have seen both sides to do evil and ignore there own values temporarily (I think someone coined a term for this kind of thing, I think it was “double think”?). I think it is important to encourage people to think, and to not let their political candidates define them, like it’s a football game or a dystopian novel.
Cancel culture has nothing to do with free speech. One is people deciding not to support a company. The other is the government threatening to steal more of a companies money if that company doesn’t silence a person.
United Fruit Company —> Chiquita
I like those. Thanks!
This is too political for me
Why are people down voting this?
The confederates were (southern) democrats
Yet which modern party flies the confederate flag?
Who cares. How are they voting now. Are they bad now or good now. Both parties have changed drastically from the inception.
Do you not know what actually happened and want people to tell you? Or are you just being willfully ignorant?
… that became Republicans in the 60s?
But that’s not the history I want to remember!!!
They’ll say this is a lie and a conspiracy. I’ve had this argument many times.
More important than the name of their party is their ideology. Conservative.
It was supposed to be a commentary on calling it a rebrand. It’s like if Coca-Cola rebranded to Pepsi.
Conservative is not always bad, but take it too far and you end up with fascists and stalinists.
When have conservatives ever been on the right side of history?
The situation was mostly middle-ground, but the US in Cold war? In the USSR, the far left policies gave way for the Far right stalinists to take charge when Lennon died.
The problems with the USSR were a case of leftists making mistakes that allowed reactionaries to take over, not a case of conservatives being on the right side of history.
tHe CoNfEdErAtEs WeRe DeMoCrAtS
true but the party switch was a thing
It wasn’t really a switch, more like both parties having an ideological shift. A switch implies they didn’t change core beliefs at all and just flipped, when many of the beliefs of both parties changed.
The parties never switched. The Democrats just started pandering to the minorities they’ve been fighting against the entire time because they were losing a lot of votes.
Republicans freed the slaves. Republicans ended segregation.
Democrats just keep promising change that never comes.
Look, I’m pretty centrist and do my best to split my vote for both parties if policies align, but you can’t ignore or handwave away the southern strategy. Republicans have been pandering to conservatives for decades.
Besides, many of their policies have been implemented. The change you say hasn’t occured definitely has, just mostly at state levels. Obamacare is still pretty successful.
The federal government has barely done shit in ages.
Removed by mod
Top of the active section. Makes sense
Have you considered people are moving further right because your labeling them as such?
That’s the saddest, softest, snowflake excuse you could use.
It’s because you call us rapists we just have to do all that rapin’. Dontcha know.
The dumbest excuse.
I’m sorry but fried chicken isn’t racist, it’s just fried chicken.
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
Exactly it is exactly how you sound, conservative does not equal Nazi or fascist. Actual Nazis don’t believe in freedom of speech and would murder you without giving you a chance to criticise.
People are hurting and the right is blaming people (because that’s what the right always does), and people are eating it up. I’ve got a bunch of friends that are currently drinking the hate-machine cool-aid, but when I ask them questions to explain why they hold those views, they just simply can’t answer - propaganda works.
For example, a good friend of mine last week said in a car full of people he wished everyone in California died of a massive nuclear blast and he would throw a party on the news of their millions of deaths. I called him out about it to explain why - he said the governor was fucking everything up. I asked for a specific detail, he couldn’t think of one other than yelling woke woke woke. I asked him what woke means, he said he doesn’t know but it’s bad - gays and rainbows and trans and something about he has to like it. Needless to point out that he is a victim of the hate machine (his kid came out as trans, and I asked if he wanted his kid to be mistreated, and of course he wants the best for his kid…)
People don’t form these opinions where they wish the death of millions of unknown people all on their own, and they usually get echo chambered into those extreme views first.
Yeah propaganda works just like how it has worked on you.
You don’t see me wishing for the deaths of everyone in some state because my news channel tells me the governor of that state is a bad guy - perhaps if you actually had something better to say we could discuss this topic
No one is immune from propaganda not even you.
Removed by mod
