Hardly a shock.
I’m not familiar with France’s parties. Are these real Greens, or Greenpeace or crypto-Russian greens?
Part real Greens, part Greenpeace, part Green-washing.
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France’s national assembly has 577 seats, with 289 seats needed for an absolute majority.
Here is the first projected seat distribution, from Ipsos. It shows the left in the lead, in a major shift compared to opinion polls during the campaign.
Left-green New Popular Front: 172-192 seats
**Emmanuel Macron’s allies: **150-170 seats
**Far right National Rally and allies: **132-152 seats
Beat turn out projections and upended polling results.
Vive La France!
This is why it’s so, so, so important for us to vote this November in the US! I’m proud of you, France!
It looks like the Far Right did worryingly well.
Hey hey - tomorrow. Right now we’re gonna fucking LOVE this.
Thank you France
Also, don’t get overly proud of this. The idiotic notion of “there are two extremes polarizing everyone,” where they put the left and the right on equal danger-footing, is all over this article. I mean, it’s a few quotes from a few people, but still. That kind of shit is poisonous. It not only likens what the left wants to what the fascists want, but it also shields the far right from the view that their opinions are as dangerous as they are. “We want everyone to be cared for and we think nationalism is wrong” is not the same as “nationalism.” Still a pretty scary article. I mean, don’t get me wrong, it’s great that the RN didn’t take the election, but they are still a huge portion of that govt. and that is very fuckin scary.
If these numbers hold, it will come down to Macron’s faction to decide who to align with. And counting on neoliberals in that scenario is…scary.
This is The Guardian, a Liberal (not Left, Liberal) newspaper in Britain, a country whose only left of center (by European standards) party is the Green Party which has all of 4 seats out of 300 in Parliament now (and it used to be just 1, even though they had 1 million votes out of 40 million).
(Labour was once leftwing, before Blair’s Third Way, and when recently it’s members voted for it to go back to being Leftwing there was a massive smear campaign which included this very newspaper to bring down the leftie leader and put the neoliberals back in control of it).
From the point of view of the journalists, editors and board of The Guardian, even Social Democracy if “far left”.
Britain is maybe the most “like America” (but not on the good things) country in Europe, with a very similar voting system (First Past The Post) and with and Overtoon Window far more shifted to the Right than almost any other country in Europe (basically the Tories are a posher version of Orban) and their Press is one of the least trusted in Europe, and that includes The Guardian.
Think of The Guardian as a British New York Times.
If you want to see coverage of the French elections that’s not been twisted by a British hard-Neoliberal Private School Attending High Middle Class journalist in a newspaper that prides itself of being “opinion makers”, try Le Monde.
The Guardian has a pretty broad ideological base stretching from centre/centre-right all the way out to moderate left. Unless you think George Monbiot and Owen Jones are neo-liberals too? (Sample articles Things are not going to get better as long as oligarchs rule the roost in our democracies and Natalie Elphicke is a hard-right Tory. Her defection sums up Labour’s contempt for progressive voters )
In your post you literally listed all the left of center writers that The Guardian has out of all their opinion writers and journalists, many of whom loudly proclaim themselves as “opinion makers”.
And that’s not even mentioning their editorial direction after the editor that published the Snowden Leaks was kicked out because of doing it.
Sure, they have all of two token lefties who get maybe one article every week or two each, in an ocean of neoliberals.
This for a newspaper many here seem to think is left of center.
I’ve lived in a number of countries in Europe, including the UK, and The Guardian’s take on European subjects (which are the ones were I can more easily compare it with newspapers from other countries) is always to the right of the take of most newspapers in Continental Europe and hence they generally, as the previous poster pointed out in this article, spin that which is just normal Left in Europe as being Far-Left and Neoliberalism (a pro-Oligarchic ideology that puts Money and those who have it above the State and hence the power of voters) as being Center-Left.
You can hardly claim that a haystack is in fact a needlestack just because there are two needles in it.
Yes? As I said they have a wide range of views giving comment. Just because it isnt Pravda doesnt mean its exclusively neoliberal. For example you’ll be hard pressed to find any opinion pieces favourable to privatisation and public sector cuts which are two of the chief pillars of neo-liberal orthodoxy.
This is not over. We have to continue to fight. Not only against the far right but for the people, for social justice for everyone. I’m so proud of France today. I’m so relieved but this is not over, what’s scares me now is that the country is deeply polarized. This was a wake up call for me. These last years of politics have made me apathetic. But what happened today gave me hope. I’m gonna do something, I don’t known what yet but I will. I’ll vote as I always did but I’ll do more. I will fight.
“The good fight is the one you are losing” or no rest for the wicked as it where I guess
My hope is that Leftwing implements policies that undo large parts of the Money-is-King and Screw-You-Plebes Neoliberalism, thus removing at least part of the popular discontent and distrust (people feel poorer and yet the mainstream keeps telling them the Economy is Growing) that the Far-Right feeds on with their “the blame is those other people that are even worse of than you (not at all the super rich)” scapegoating.
Reduce the pain by making the State more supportive again and getting more “from those who can the most, to give to those who need the most” and you take the wind off the Far-Right’s sails.
Without the majority in the Parliament that is very unlikely to happen. Worse, I fear that a government formed by the NFP would accept a coalition with the Macrony just so they can barely apply their program and thus give more ammo to the RN in the next presidential election.
What is a good news today could be a very bad news in 2027. Depends in how the left will handle it.
I too fear that, but for now I’ll stick to hope.
Thankfully some gerrymandered states are finally getting their maps in order. I really really hope we are in the timeline where Dems take the House, Senate, and Presidency.
Hoping the same for the United States.
A leftist hat trick would be amazing.
I see a lot of the nay sayers as a vocal minority. They yell the loudest, but only because the media gives them a platform to generate clicks. Just like how Republicans believe everyone in the nation, who doesn’t worship satan, is pro-birth. Kansas, a deep red rural state proved otherwise with a vote to add abortion rights into their constitution a couple years ago, something their conservative supreme court just upheld.
Honestly, the recent ruling on the Kansas ballot initiative, which quite frankly surprised me to begin with, shows that in some places judges still do their job even when their personal beliefs may differ from the law they are entrusted with interpreting. Kansas voters, you showed us the way and stood out against the backdrop of “conservative status quo.” Kansas showed, in the last two years, that when given a chance, even deep red states see the writing on the wall.
I have a feeling the outcome of this election is going to be a “silent storm” event and wake-up call to the GOP that they are out of touch with what the people really want. They’ve drank the loud-mouth’s Kool-aid for far too long and won’t believe it when it happens.
Think of it like the silent majority (maybe 80% of nationwide voters) is the massive tornado that took out the drive-in theater in the movie, Twister. In the movie, no one saw it until a random lightning strike shed light on the sheer girth of the monster bearing down on them. The GOP is the drive-in. The night of the election will be their lightning flash. We, the voters, will be the tornado.
That would be amazing but it doesn’t require playing chicken with Biden’s age issue and the political maneuvers the French left and center pulled off were possible because of polling, not in spite of them.
Kansas, and other red states are deeply poisoned against democrats by about 60 years of propaganda. This shows in the polling where they’d rather vote for the new RFK with brain worms and vaccine conspiracies than vote for Biden. That’s not just a joke, Biden loses to RFK in Kansas if the election was held today. And RFK is competitive with Trump. He’s expected to lose but nobody’s really studying the non battleground states very hard.
It would be hilarious if RFK managed to siphon enough EC votes to throw it into congress. (Even though that would also mean a Trump presidency because they vote as state delegations, 26 of which are firmly controlled by the GOP)
Oh thank goodness. Worst fear allayed, now on to the next one.
Start listening to the working class and the far right won’t even be a fart in the night
Far Right Night Fart?
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And that’s happened after East Germany was consistently fucked over ever since the reunification, leaving a chunk of the country extremely skeptical of mainstream political parties. Would there be people who would still be racist if East Germany had been treated fairly? Some would be, but it wouldn’t define the vote of most of them.
I disagree - the Working Class want’s a mix between the original SPD and the original FDP. Those that want more right for the workers and those that are self employed. Because everyone thinking straight knows, we need immigration. However, we need a new set of rules. The AfD pretty much does play the role of “Bauernfänger” (the literal translation of “Scam” doesn’t work), as we say. All of those AfD Politicians that have actual seats have done shit over the years.
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Is the left listening to the working class?
Most “center” “left” parties in Europe nowadays are just Neoliberals (pro-business, pro-privatisation, pumping up asset bubbles and generally bough and paid for by moneyed interest) and hence not really Left and often not even Center.
However all countries in Europe still have real Left parties (even the UK with it’s highly rigged First Past The Post voting system has the Green Party), though judging by the one in my own country (of which I am a member) there’s often this messy mix of people whose leftwing thinking is basically slogans from the Soviet Union (these being mainly people in their 60s and older) and people who grew up in the post ideology neoliberal age for whom leftwing is basically greed but for-the-group instead of the individual (hence you end up with Identity Politics which is a twisted subverted charicature of the Fight For Equality that far too often is dominated by people who are members of a group they were born into demanding shit for their group - instead of a broad push for Equality done on the basis if need an independent of the “group” people were born into, we have competing pulls for getting shit per group, with people said to be deserving or undeserving based on the genetics they were born with, thus far too often rewarding some people who are priviledged but have the “right genetics” whilst not helping those who have real need and yet were born with the “wrong genetics”).
I don’t really know if the present day Left can find a modern ideology and vision that’s not just a “branch of neoliberalism that doesn’t talk of Economics”, though the victory of the NFP in France, lead by Melenchon and his party rather than the old “moderate” mainstream party - called Socialist but not in any way form or shape so, but rather just neolibs plus performatice leftwing talk - gives me hope.
The left, as in die Linke definitely does. It has great approaches to make life better for the working class. Unfortunately their foreign policy is so terrible they are unvoteable for me. A party that is against delivering weapons to Ukraine cannot get my vote.
WDYM?
The left will always deliver better quality of life for the working class.
The right likes to blame migrants and taxes which resonates with the working class.
I don’t understand the first line because I’m not a native English speaker, and acronyms sometimes confuse me.
I agree with you, and I am very happy about this victory in France. I was referring to the fact that the working class prioritizes certain issues that the left doesn’t always place at the top of their agenda.
I think it’s time to show that advocating for minority rights doesn’t mean neglecting measures in favor of workers. I believe this is true, but we need to demonstrate it now; otherwise, when the vote happens again in France, no coalition will be able to stop fascism.
Sorry, wdym is “what do you mean?”
In Australia, the centre left has very strong ties with employee unions. They will always advocate for better terms for employees.
Sadly, much of the “working class” votes on the right because they think of themselves as something better than the working class, despite being poor. There’s a phrase “temporarily embarrassed millionaires”.
Further left we have the greens, and indeed they prioritise environmental issues over employee terms.
The center left hasn’t been listening much for a few decades, which is why the far right has been steadily rising from a 20% ceiling to this 35% ceiling just now. But the alliance that won today is not center left - it has some legit left. You can tell because the center and the media have been working overtime to prop up the most divisive figure as Literaly Worse Than Hitler that needs to be stopped at all cost, even by electing literal Nazis.
But this new left is also an alliance, and the current fear is that some of them will jump ship to side with the center right when we all realize that we really can’t form a government, because no one has an absolute majority. Even with those potential defections, the center will likely still not get a majority back. Worst case scenario is the left breaks, no one can govern, and Macron uses an obscure law to take over 100%, best case scenario the left holds and Macron can’t even do that and we have a chance of getting at least SOME improvement.
The socialists haven’t been communicating with the working class for decades. Just sitting around complaining about liberals not listening to them.
The socialist sentimentality around the imagery of red flags, hammers and sickles, photos of Marx and Che Guevara means the working class is going to ignore everything you say. These are imagery associated with the failures of socialism. No matter how many excuses you make about how it wasn’t socialism’s fault the previous iterations failed, you’re the ones putting yourselves in that position by insisting on associating yourselves with those failures.
Liberals are the left side of where the will of the people is at. Because it’s a democracy and not being anywhere near where the consensus of the people are at isn’t going to win an election. You’re just sitting to the left of where liberals are at laying down judgement as if that’s going to influence the people of a country which is the only thing that’s relevant.
Liberals will always be the left side of the will of the people. If you influence the people to move further left, liberals will move further left. But communicating with the working class isn’t what socialism is about in the 21st century. 21st century socialism is all focused on waving red flags to get attention and complaining about how politicians that follow the will of the people aren’t following your will instead.
Fake ass socialists just whining on the internet instead of talking to the working class.
imagery of red flags, hammers and sickles, photos of Marx and Che Guevara
Name one French politician who uses that?
It’s not the politicians, it’s the people that the working class ignores do that. ie. Solcialists. Since the voters aren’t influenced by that bullshit, the politicians aren’t going to influenced by it either.
Socialists are incapable of influencing the will of the people because of sentimentality over symbols of the past. And really why should anyone be influenced by people nostalgic for past failures and just sit around making excuses for those failures?
? ? ? Sir this is Europe, you’re in the wrong part of the world, you don’t know what socialists are.
Jean-Luc Mélenchon leader of La France Insoumise which is the biggest party on the left in France.
Don’t watch far right propaganda. Even the communist party removed the hammer and sickle over a decade ago.
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You are whining about a vocal internet minority, that’s why they’re not doing anything. Just because you see someone complaining about “the man” and calling themselves socialists on lemmy or some other internet forum doesn’t mean they’re representative of the left in general.
Nah fam, I vote in every election I’m eligible for. I choose who to vote factoring in which platform is closest to what I want along with the probability of that party actually being in a position to implement it. I phone bank so politicians will owe me and I can influence them to go further in the direction I want.
None of the text you type on this site influences anything a politician will do. Actually participating in the process does. Typing up essays about how liberals are bad because they aren’t socialists is just useless whining. If you fail to convince the working class that socialism will make their lives better (and if you did that the politicians would fall in line) then you’re accomplishing nothing.
But they will stop these evil immigrants from stealing my jobs and living of my tax money and destroying my culture…
/s
Yup, the right has been more successful than the left in influencing the working class. The fact that a lot of working class get scammed by far right narratives is in indication of how the left is absolutely terrible at communicating with the working class.
But why does the working class want the far right?
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Okay great, but the far right never has the answers to economic woes. Ask Brazil, UK, Italy etc
Edit also, it’s not the powerless immigrants fault that the neoliberals have consistently shat the bed for so long.
Countries with the Nordic model see a decrease in far right ideology, the problem is plain as day. Ruling class decidedly needs a class to exploit, and they keep the useful idiots busy by pretending their issues are because of immigrants.
No, vote more progressives in positions of power and authority, and ask them to create social welfare programs like those in civilized countries
the far right never has the answers to economic woes
Indeed. The answers they have are easy, quick and wrong, but a peeved populace stops thinking at quick and easy.
Because the far right offers simple solutions. That these solutions will only lead to things being much worse and Germany being completely ruined as a result is something they dont understand. Our biggest “newspaper” has been constantly bombarding people with fear and hate for decades and it only got worse and worse. Uneducated people who read that will panic and vote for those offering the simplest solution.
Is it because they (the far right) listened to them?
They act like they listen, yes. But their policies would bring ruin for all of germany. The country that exports more than any other country on earth would be completely wrecked if it leaves the EU
Only insofar as they can better pander to them instead of serve them.
If people are hurting, some of them will listen to the arguments of the Far Right - “the blame is those other guys who don’t look the same as you” is quit an appealing argument for many.
There are two solutions for that:
- You try to get most people to really think deeply their politics, in a well informed way which puts aside tribalisms, thus reducing the take of far-right arguments.
- You remove the causes of the hurt, which at the moment it’s mostly end-stage Neoliberalism (basically the wealth people produce is incredibly ill distributed).
I reckon the first one is pretty much impossible (I mean, it would be great, but it doesn’t work for actual human beings, with all their tribalism and ignorant self-evaluations as not at all ignorant), whilst the second absolutelly is possible (and probably required, if only to stop the Environmental destruction of our planet and guaranteed the survival of our civilization).
What happens when you frighten French with Marine.
I feel like the real lesson is being missed here:
Do not mess with Mbappé.
Facts. He’s a national hero over there.
If the Canadian left could do this the Conservatives would never win an election ever again
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Now the left needs to get serious about immigration issues, RN has been gaining and only gaining, we are just delaying the win of far right, so many issues with left, they need to do right things.
Thank you, UK.
Thank you, France.
Hat trick, USA?
Putin getting nervous.
Also extremely rare Iran W
We are hoping to defeat the conservatives AND idiot single-issue liberals(to end genocide they are going to support both continued and more aggressive genocide AND turn the US to the path of joining the WW3 axis powers…). It’s an uphill battle.
America is trying to do the opposite by getting MORE candidates in to split the vote more on the lib/dem side, because to many people in Media are invested in the ratings from the next Trump shitshow.
Crossing my fingers and will be contributing to this hat trick come November
I’ll vote for a corpse over Trump, but if Biden doesn’t step down I’d bet money we lose as much as it pains me to say it. No data supports a Biden reelection. And I’ve seen no promising path to altering the trends in the polls that are largely a result of an immutable, worsening vice: age.
Fact
Let’s hope for a good election in Germany next year 🙏
Alright! Now if France and Britain’s new left-of-center leadership can just… PLEASE not fuck it up… there may actually hope for the rest of the planet.
This was not a vote for leadership. It was a vote for one of our houses. Unless the president decides to play nice (spoiler: he won’t), we won’t have a prime minister from any left party, causing things to be difficult for the right but not impossible, as there are provision to force some laws to pass for the prime minister, and outright impossible for the left to do anything because they’re unlikely to get support from a right-oriented prime minister, and are unlikely to get an actual majority vote on anything.
Basically, unless something really unexpected happens, this will result in a stalemate for a while. Which is, admittedly, the lesser of two evils, but kinda sucks anyway.
Britain left of centre ? . . . these are blairites, “labour” in name only , they literally propped up the second homes buy to let market through the 2000s. and they’d gladly privatise every public service we have left if they can. I’ve already heard shit like “individualised healthcare” being mentioned in their “think tanks”.
They’re probably not worse than the tories, and they probably will fuck it up less, that’s about all you can hope for them.
They aren’t going to tackle anything fundamental like bank regulation, promoting domestic investment, industrial strategy or developing public services.
I hope France gets a lot better.
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to be determined in my opinion. he’s been in office two days atm.
give him a chance
My opinion is pretty much based on their manifesto. I don’t see how they can do anything progressive when their mandate is based on that bag of shite.
It’s a a democracy, representatives aren’t supposed to impose what they want onto the people. They’re supposed to represent what the people want. It’s likely Starmer is still more left leaning than the consensus of the public. But his job isn’t to impose his will on the people but to do what the people want.
And according the abysmal turnout and the fact that starmer’s labour couldn’t even really outcompete Corbyn’s in the popular vote despite the collapse of the Tories, the people naturally want a watered down version of the Tory austerity platform and enlightened centrism?
If there’s one thing the UK election will show you, the people want someone to fucking do something about their cost of living problems, not play middle of the road and keep the status quo. They go to the far right because of that.
Politics is about compromise to be a best fit to the will of the people. Starmer is a better fit to the overall will of the people in the UK. Corbyn might have been a better fit to what the left wanted, but are you really claiming he was closer to the overall will of all of the people of the UK than Starmer is?
Democracy is about following the will of the people, not imposing your will upon the people.
Considering he got 40 percent in one of his elections and Starmer didn’t even get 35 percent in this one, yeah I guess I am.
At least I have a metric I’m pointing to when I’m saying what the consensus is, instead of generally pulling it out of my ass.
Fuck the metrics, Starmer is PM and Corbyn is just an independent nobody that will effect zero positive change.
But talking big and doing nothing is what socialism is all about these days, isn’t it?
They’re supposed to represent what the people want
They are supposed to listen to their constituents and do whats best for them.
Sometimes that means not giving them what they want, cause the average person is a fucking moron… and half of them are dumber than that.
Great example would be Brexit.
But who’s really the moron here? People that don’t like people that call them morons, or socialists who say they’re for the working class, need the support of the working class for their movement to succeed, but publicly call the people they need support from “fucking morons”?
Trump also says similar things about people whose support he needs BTW.
Yes yes the “b-b-both sides!” false equivalency again. Thats totally not tried and tired.
You sound basically the same, but if you’re wrapping yourself in the red flags of failure while Trump is wrapping himself in the American flag, why would you think someone would even bother to hear you out?
You can’t win over the working class because modern socialism doesn’t care about being appealing to the working class. It’s entirely focused on being holier than thou towards liberals which accomplishes less than nothing. Net negative effect on society in real terms.
Yeah, by European standards, I don’t think New Labour are even just Center-Right: they have far too much love for “businesses”, privatisation and deregulation to be an inch left of the traditional Right - in many ways they’re pretty much were the Tories were back in Thatcher’s day.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t mean Macron will name a leftist prime minister. He already asked his center-right prime minister to remain in office for a while. But the message from the population is clear.
The PM gave his request for demission, but Manu rejected it… WTF.
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The current pm stays in order to run the country before the transition happens. He has to pick a candidate that the left party will present.
Actually he doesn’t. That’s what he should and kind of said he’ll do, but he can shape the cabinet the way he wants. But he’s no Trump so I dont think he will outrageously abuse this powers. I would’nt be surprised tho if decides to name a prime minister from his own party and offer some “key” ministy to the left, claiming the country is too divided to be managed by what he calls extreme parties. Or put in place some kind of technical government. Anyway you can’t really trust him.
B-B-But POLLS!!!
What a joke…
I know there’s still a long way to go but maybe the future won’t be as completely horrofying as I thought. Fuck the facists and fuck the nazis, well done France!
