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You give them far, far too much credit.
Unless they came out of 15-year coma just in time for the election and voted purely on name recognition, they knew exactly what they were voting for, and why.
Lol. They don’t think white supremacy is bad.
And those that do gaslight themselves into saying that’s not what it was
No, they’re not smart enough to have that realization.
Precisely my thoughts
Sorry, Thanks to American Exceptionalism, (and Americans misunderstanding what that term even means). They will never, ever, ever ever ever admit that they are wrong.
The next logical step is to start seeing rambling about “god is with us, jesus is on our side” etc.
American pride won’t admit defeat, you’re right. However, most Americans are blind to brown nosing. Like Trump, if you just make them feel good emotionally, you can make them do whatever you want. (See the lifting of the tik tok ban)
Just call us good little boys and girls and tell us Jesus would want us to share, and you’ll have a communist America overnight.
Repeating “they are bad and dumb” ad nauseum is no way to inspire sane conversation. It’s just echo chamber circle jerk.
I dont have any interest in conversing with people who are making jokes about annexing my country, or trying to shove evangelical horseshit into everyone’s mouth. Theres no conversation to be had. I’m 7 or 8 years past trying to talk to most of them.
As an American I’m about 7 years past having a sane conversation with half of them as well. Recently had an experience where I “convinced” family members to support a far more sensible very left leaning agenda (for the us).
It required more skill at arguing that it did facts. And started with a hilarious level of common ground. Asking if the CEO killing was justified considering what he was responsible for.
My head hurt through the entire process and I doubt it made any lasting impact.
But, my experience is that most are so far gone down the insanity rabbit hole, it’s like reading sections of 1984.
I’m trying not to fed post but what’s even the solution for this rampant indoctrination of the uneducated and gullible?
Tough question man…dunno
Well he moved the bullet because he wanted trump to rule. Just awaiting DOGE to announce they are going to make recovering the Ark of the Covenant a top priority.
Starts with “no, it wasn’t EXACTLY the same salute because his wrist angle is 0.0001 degrees different”
Then “no, he was just being sarcastic, no one can just be ironic anymore”
Then “okay but it’s not that bad, he’s not literally putting people in concentration camps”
Then “okay but it wasn’t my fault, I’m a good person”
“I just can’t believe the face-eating leopards who constantly made face-eating gestures and promised to eat faces on day one would eat my face!”
Even if we give them literally all of benefit of doubt and assume it really was Bellamy salute, it don’t make it any better, it’s still salute of genocidal empire. And i don’t have any benefit to give, Bellamy salute is old rubbish nerd trivia from century ago, here and now Musk gesture have only one meaning.
you are forgetting that Elon is a dumbass and it is probable that he really did a nazi salute by accident
Maybe as force of habit.
‘Accident’ isn’t the word I’d use to describe a famous, clear, unique and repeated gesture. It’s not something one does unknowingly. I’d lean more towards ‘association’, ‘intuition’, perhaps ‘familiarity’, if it weren’t premeditated. It’s no secret that Musk is frequently interacting with and boosting neo-nazis on their social media platform, the most doubt I could possibly give them is they wanted to do a powerful victory gesture, picked the first one that came to mind and they were too damn ignorant to realize even US conservatives don’t like Nazi symbols.
Accidental like Strangelove, perhaps. Just an involuntary spasm revealing his true nature.
Dr. Strangelove is a surprising adept analogue - immigrant from a white supremacist regime who can’t leave it behind, weird and socially awkward, [supposed] tech expert. Maybe I’m stretching it a bit.
I wasn’t trying to insinuate that he doesn’t support nazis, just doubting he would actually make it this blatantly obvious
They are fully mask off and to play off any of their obvious rhetoric is sanewashing at best and doublespeak indoctrination at worst.
apparently so, maybe I’m just still in denial
Buying Twitter and turning it into Nazi heaven all the while banning anyone who disagreed with him under the banner of “free speech” wasn’t a big enough clue for you?
But it’s nothing new . Listen to the dollop podcast on Elon Musk. He didn’t appear out of a vacuum. People are formed by their upbringings.
[…] wasn’t a big enough clue for you?
no it was, but that was definitely more subtle than just doing a nazi salute, like what he did now
…uh. No, it was just a Nazi salute. Twice. Do you need him to sit there and hold it so you can really confirn?
i never denied it was a nazi salute
i edited my comment to make it more clear what i meant to say
Sadly, anyone who would vote for him is incapable of this level of self reflection.
What they’re incapable of is recognizing that ‘the badies’ (Nazis) is something they should avoid.
The problem isn’t that they don’t know they’re evil, it’s that they fucking love it.
They’re in a media ecosystem that just won’t talk about this stuff. FOX News and Drudge Report are going to run a thousand “Random Black Person Acts Scary!” headlines before you’ve had your coffee, then lead into the latest Musk scandal with “Very Jewish Very Not-Fascist ADL says Elon Actually Cool And Good”.
This isn’t a question of self-reflection nearly so much as it is an accumulation of priors from outside sources.
I had to have the “It’s just a difference of opinion” conversation for the probably 12th time yesterday. I’m so fucking tired of it.
It’s not just a different opinion when you’re supporting a rapist bigot who wants to allow corporations to destroy the environment and harm LGBT people and countless other shitty things. All he does is spout hate. That’s what you’re supporting. Fuck you.
That implies Trump supporters have any introspection. The only thing they think in a mirror is “Haha, im a gigachad who triggers da libs with my maga hat!”
Unsurprising that the ADL swept in to defend him.
They’re called the apartheid defense league for a reason
100%. Zionists have always had ties to the Nazi Party.
That is, assuming they have the ability to self-reflect
No Trump voter is casual unless they literally closed their eyes and scribbled randomly on the ballot
Of course there are. My neighbor is one. A simple minded idiot, conned by the lies and the cult of personality. But, if you talked to him, you’d never think for a second that he’d vote for Trump.
Their eyes are still closed. Unless you walk up to that neighbor in the next day or so and show him the clip, he won’t see it or believe it.
Hell, it’s already too late and your neighbor is probably already making excuses about how Elon Musk is just sharing his hearts energy or some shit.
Then what? I must know more about OP’s neighbor!
Absolutely nothing changes. The “closed eyes” people are just as bad as the actual fascists, because they’re enablers.
It was a roman salute
Yeah okay
Look, the shitty excuses already began.
In 2008 Polish court really acquitted three members of ONR, most prominent Polish neonazi organisation on exactly this excuse.
Its a two party system and plenty of people looked at the options, decided “I’m going to vote for the least bad candidate”, and went with Trump.
That’s in part because Haris’s campaign sucked shit (she spent more time on the trail with Liz Cheney than her own VP), in part because Biden’s “booming” economy couldn’t seemed to rectify the same escalating wealth imbalance we’ve been drowning in since Ford/Carter, in part because generations of voter disenfranchisement have stacked the deck against liberals, and in part because 15M D voters didn’t show up between 2020 and 2024.
But the idea that “casual” voters of any strip don’t exist really ignores how many Obama-Trump-Biden-Trump voters just flit in the wind based on however they’re feeling at a given moment.
What’s more, if the US has an underlying ideology, it tends toward fascism. Liberals don’t want to grapple with that, so they end up offering up half-a-fascism to the moderate voter and telling the Radical Antifa Leftists to pound sand every four years.
They’re the majority of the membership of our trade unions and military. Most are there because they didn’t have the fiscal and educational opportunities that others had.
For nearly a decade they’ve perceived no practical alternative means but to remain committed to orange “literally anything else”. Practical alternatives means of change exist, especially outside of electoral means.
Who should be teaching them about their practical alternative means of change?
Can they be subsequently trusted to wisely choose for themselves?
Nice, ChatGPT.
Nice, ad hominem.
Bullies know to be bullies.
Yes
Zero fucking patience for liberals calling trump supporters nazis.
Maybe don’t do Nazi salutes then. Zero empathy for you and your Nazi friends.
Why are you drawing the line on the symbolic representations of nazism when you’re complicit in a genocide?
The hand gesture isn’t the problem with nazis. The thing you did is.
Are you fucking deluded or something?? YOU COMMITTED A GENOCIDE. So you got your fucking magnifying glass and slide rule out and managed to find a way to rhetorically say trump is still bad? No one’s arguing he isn’t bad you cynical piece of shit.
YOU COMMITTED A GENOCIDE
Cope harder
Just please make it clear what you want me to cope over.
A hundred thousand dead children, right? That’s what your snarky fucking attitude is directed towards, you fucking nazi piece of shit, right?
I am not denying the genocide dear person, i am just saying that you have no right to defend whatever is going on right now
Starts the thread complaining about Trump and musk being appropriately called Nazis, ends the thread calling everyone who disagrees Nazis.
🤌 Chef’s kiss. You’re the Simone Biles of mental gymnastics.
Shure because that random person on lemmy commited a genocide. You dont even know where they are from or what thier polirical leanings are
I didn’t think it would only take a day for the tankies to throw their lot in with Trump with so much enthusiasm. I figured they’d pretend for a little longer at least.
No one’s arguing he isn’t bad you cynical piece of shit
You’re a fucking idiot. Learn to read before you speak or shut the fuck up.
You check in with Vlad before you go near any windows.
You’re trying to deflect. It’s classic maga tactics. You don’t want to feel bad for voting for a Nazi so you claim Biden caused a genocide. The problem with this is multifactorial. First Biden didn’t campaign on causing genocide. So voters for him are not complicit. Second Biden is handling an altercation between two nations. The US has historically been pro Israel. Third we’re critical of Biden for this issue. Trump ran on fascist ideas. You voted for him based on these ideas. He’s enacting those ideas. And now his daddy is on stage heiling the Reich. Do you think Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine?
Oh hey, straight up genocide denial being upvoted on Lemmy. Very cool.
“Biden didn’t campaign on causing a genocide so it doesn’t count”
“It’s not a genocide it’s a conflict between two nations”
+11 -5
Lemmy is a nazi bar
Then why did they vote for someone promising to do Nazi policies?
You literally voted for someone committing a genocide. What fucking nazi policies are you referring to??
Deportations and containment camps being talked about would be a good place to start…
When did I vote for someone committing a genocide?
The first line where the democrats made all those policies incrementally worse just like the last several presidents of both parties aside…
I’m sorry, I shouldn’t assume. Who did you vote for?
Both of the parties are a shit show. But Trump is the one being discussed.
Mate I’m not even American.
But Trump is the one being discussed.
And who’s doing the discussing? What’s the context of the discussion?
You’re criticizing something as if you actually hold those values.
This discussion is not being held in good faith.
If it wasn’t clear, I think Nazis, Trump, Elon etc are scum. Biden is basically the same, as he never did anything about Palestine.
Have a good day.
Just give up. You can’t win here. I also hate the near perfect echo-chamber liberals have here on lemmy, but there’s nothing to get out of arguing here.
I just wish they’d leave their crying out of memes…
You just spent all of your political capital supporting a genocide. You aren’t better than them. You are objectively worse.
Cowards downvoting without speaking. Do I detect shame? Or am I giving you too much credit?
Interaction with you is worth less than the cost of a downvote.
Well good for you! You got to watch inferior brown skinned infants die in a bombed out hospital AND get a quippy vapid comeback to an internet argument! You must be over the fucking moon.
Now Im wondering whether your either a troll or just seriously misguided. like what do you get out of accusing random people on lemmy, who you assume are liberals fore being responsible for the palestinisn genocide. Like maybe that is easy compared to taking direct action and organizing.
If you’re getting up in arms over me shouting at people who supported a genocide you are self selecting as one of those people. So fucking spare me the civility trolling that I’m throwing strays.
