Every time I offer similar views the responses I get are somewhere along the lines of
But you can run Linux on windows!
You can install most of the same tools on windows
Just run everything in docker anyway
I’ve been coding most of my life. Usually people don’t understand just how sucky the tool chains are on windows when you step into certain dev work.
If I ever have to setup multiple python virtual envs again I’ll fucking just quit. Pipenv. Virtualenv. Poetry. Every fucking one on windows has been riddled with bugs
You’ve forgotten an important point: the price gap between apple and windows machines has closed significantly. A similarly-performing windows machine is now a similar price, if not more expensive, than the equivalent mac.
macOS is fine, for now, but with the direction Apple is going right now with all the spyware they’re putting on iOS, I’d rather start using something else than get caught off guard when they start doing the same with macOS. I still have a MacBook, but I’ve long since switched to using Linux as my main system, so when the day comes and Apple decides to install spyware on macOS, I can ditch it in a heartbeat without shedding a single tear. Also, I’m not a big fan of the lack of options and customisability on macOS. I get that it’s meant to help non-tech-savvy people so that they don’t break their system, but at least make a toggle that’s lets you turn all of that off for those who knows what they’re doing.
Lastly, Linux distros like Fedora or Mint is very easy to use, and at least in my opinion, entirely negates the argument that “Linux is hard”. It’s only as difficult as you want it to be. The only major roadblock is support for common proprietary apps, and while I don’t usually use them, I’ve heard that they’ve become far better recently. As a cherry on top, it’s lighter and, best of all, has no spyware.
Isn’t the whole Macs don’t get viruses thing a myth by this point?
There are a lot more sources for random untrustworthy Windows software than there are for MacOS but that’s on the user the same way keeping your OS up to date is.
Nothing is secure anymore, and it makes sense. The reason there are less apple hacks (anything I’m the ecosystem is susceptible) is by keeping things proprietary and their relative obscurity. There have been hacks on Mac’s, iPhones, but also Linux, android, and of course windows.
I am literally forced to use Apple at work. I can life with an iPhone, because I use it just for its intended, dumped down usage and I overcame the annoyance about Apples fascism (alternative web engine). If you are not able to automate 100% of your setup on a proper UNIX machine, please do the programming community a favor and switch your line of work. Apple is such a shit show: no keyboard driven workflow w/o extensive customization, how the fuck can I automate 100% of the the setup/customization, why the fuck do I have to upgrade every fucking single program interactively with a click, why are the package managers homebrew and macports as shitshow like Linux 25 years ago, why is macOS so bloated and fucking slow on a machine, why is the development experience for mac worse than Visual Studio 6 (!), Finder is such a sad joke compared to file managers on every other OS or DE, why can I not easily enable transparent file compression when I am a grown up user etc etc etc. Seriously, macOS is nice for consumers with too much money. The literally only thing macOS does which I envy is the tag system which works. Don’t get me wrong, Linux is also a shit show, but compared to macOS it is like the best thing ever.
Then you are far above the threshold, because Ubuntu desktop and Fedora desktop are easy and widely supported by hardware nowadays. No tinkering necessary.
My dude, if you find you need to “babysit” Fedora or Ubuntu, I’m kind of doubting your tech literacy - i.e the basic level of tech literacy you need to operate macOS or Windows with.
And also, just because something is UNIX doesn’t make it good. Shout outs to HPUX.
Also, Apple is tracking you on macOS and iOS, similarly to Google and Microsoft. They call it telemetry, but are you SURE they don’t collect identifying information and canvas you?
Windows is shit, but the days where you have to do configuration if you don’t use some obscure notebook in one of the most used linux distros is over. I’d say gnome e.g. is pretty close to macos UI wise. There is also Hackintosh if you can’t live without it.
As for why I particularly hate apple:
Bizarre pricing for comparably low tier Hardware (although not really comparable since apple makes their own ARM silicone)
Bad repairability, including flimsy collabs to produce some overpriced block of metal just to change an jphone battery lol
Walled garden / closed ecosystem. Blocking third party apps for users “security”. All this green bubble / blue bubble bullshit.
productivity and design wise alright machines, but utter trash when it comes to gaming.
That’s only iOS, and I’ve heard that EU’s trying to put an end to that. Third party apps works fine with macOS; never once have I even touched the app store, only Homebrew. I do agree that the lack of control and freedom you have is egregious, especially for such an expensive device, there really should be an toggle to turn all of that restriction off for those who knows what they’re doing. I’m also pessimistic about the future of macOS given the absolute bullshit Apple’s been pulling with iOS. I can only hope Asahi Linux gets feature parity with macOS by the time they do the same with macOS, else I’ll have to sell my M1 MacBook and get something else, and that’s a shame because despite less-than-ideal OS, the hardware is amazing.
Arch Linux Desktop for coding and gaming, MacBook for mobile productivity. Best of both worlds.
I know with 100% certainty that if my MacBook did a thing last week, it will do it tomorrow. No lost files due to updates, no weird crashes, no ads, no candy crush. If I’m out somewhere, that reliability is worth the premium. And, at least on Mac computers, you can unlock the walled garden if you really need to.
There is no use case for windows in my workflow. Might not be true for everyone though.
To be fair, using Arch is kind of a different thing entirely. If you want to compare something to OSX UX/reliability, Mint or the like would be a more fair comparison. They’re way more stable than rolling release, and even rr doesn’t have that many issues.
Thank you again for all your replies and suggestions.
After trying a thunderbolt gigabit ethernet adapter, I have full 1000Mbps speeds again. I can only assume there was some kind of firmware mess-up with the OS update. At least that won’t affect 3rd party hardware.
I can’t be sure if any of the suggestions helped the situation, but I learned a few things, and at least I don’t have to worry with it now.
Thanks again.
Cheers!
Maybe you should read your own sources before making unsubstantiated claims. If it had been intentional, using an adapter would not have solved the problem.
Dude, they disabled a capability of the hardware it shipped with, with a firmware update in the OD update. I have one of the affected Minis. I bought a computer that shipped with gigabit Ethernet and they removed that feature. I don’t care if I could buy an external adapter. Would you think it was ok of Nvidia retroactively capped you 120fps GPU at 12fps because you can just buy another GPU?
I don’t have the actual mini on hand right now, its serving as a home server and I am on vacation. I’ll check when I get back. Btw, what version of OSX/macOS are you running on? I had no problem with Catalina and even Ventura (OpenCore).
Genuinely happy for you to have escaped this issue. I had mine on wifi when the OS update that killed it rolled out, because I couldn’t run a cable to that part of my house, so I didn’t notice until a couple of years after the fact. Even booting Linux or Windows it was still stuck at 100Mbps. There used to be a lot more threads on the Apple forums and they inevitably ended in people being content to just buying external thunderbolt adapters to get the speed back.
Was it ever just flagged as a bug, or some intentional planned obsolescence on the part of Apple?
I will likely need to upgrade this mac at some point. May just make it a server for plex or something. I purposefully bought it because its literally the last user serviceable Mac on the market.
Though at this point, i No longer use it on the greater internet. its mostly just for me to record music with. I probably dont even need it on network anymore.
One doesn’t “get privacy”, privacy can’t be bolted on. One starts with full privacy and then begins losing it to bad decisions, like choosing an inauditable OS that phones home and everything.
I don’t care what anyone says. On a user level MacOS is by far the best ready to go experience. I love using Linux Mint and I wish I would use it full time to be free of corporate OS’s. But that’s not the case and Mac is well ahead in my eyes.
Just to be clear, because the following could be misunderstood when posted alone: I’m not looking for an argument, use whatever you prefer. I’m just curious.
What use cases do you have that aren’t available (or take lots of configuration) on Mint?
Thanks for asking. Unfortunately I’m stuck using certain Adobe apps. There are Linux alternatives but I work with clients and external parties so working files need to be shared. So can’t risk compatibility or even drive format issues.
Plus hardware wise apple really hit it out of the park with apple silicon. I’d love to see the desktop gpu race move towards efficient even a little bit to tempt me.
Gotta give credit where credit’s due.
From my experience with people that are very pro Android vs the pro iOS crowd, it’s just that they’re trying to justify their own choice by uplifting the OS they chose and sometimes tend to focus only on the negatives of the other OS. The same can be said for the various desktop OS crowds.
I’ve used both Android and iOS, as well as Windows and MacOS (and intend to try Linux at some point) over the years and I never thought one was generally better than the other. All these OSs have different target users and that’s ok. Just because you’re not the target user for OS A, doesn’t mean that OS B is objectively the best OS for everyone. It’s just the best OS for you. And why people feel the need to bash other people’s choices or even make fun of them for it is beyond me.
Really? Back on Reddit, every time I said something about Apple, I get at least 5 comments saying how “that isn’t a problem”, “lol you have no idea” and things like that.
Especially the head. phone. jacks. Oh my, the mental gymnastics were unforgettable.
You are literally suggesting how you have fixed (or rather, worked around) the issue… by suggesting another much more expensive solution. Pretty much just like the other comments I mentioned before, except that they were suggesting wireless headphones, or buying dongles, or any of that jazz.
I just want to charge my phone while I’m wearing my headphones, without having to buy any external dongles or gasp external DACs.
Apple set a terrible precedent for other phone manufacturers by removing the headphone jacks, they showed how they can screw over customers and people will still sing praises for them, it’s baffling because it’s a blatant attempt by Apple to promote their own wireless headphones!
Although it’s been better now in the Android world, but there was once when those companies touted “lack of 3.5mm” as a feature.
It’s mainly the terrible anti-consumer decisions of Apple that everyone dunks on, such as lack of repairability, lack of consumer choice, charging a fortune to change a single $1 chip, and being unable to run programs downloaded from anywhere but the app store.
You can’t upgrade ram or a hard drive. If you sell me a computer, charge $100 per 4 gigs of base speed ram, even more for storage, than have the audacity to tell me I can’t upgrade it myself, you can fuck right off.
They don’t contribute code back to the community and make billions in profit to the detriment of furthering the human species with their concentration of wealth and minimal innovation (since Jobs died).
You mean like their recent Wine patches, which they trough over the fence instand of working with the community? WebKit was forked AFAIK for open source projects etc. Perhaps Apple conforms to the letter of the law, but they for sure don’t play nice to the spirit of OpenSource. Finally: Given what they borrowed from the *BSDs, I don’t see Apple being a contributor to the *BSDs in any way.
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Every time I offer similar views the responses I get are somewhere along the lines of
But you can run Linux on windows! You can install most of the same tools on windows Just run everything in docker anyway
I’ve been coding most of my life. Usually people don’t understand just how sucky the tool chains are on windows when you step into certain dev work.
If I ever have to setup multiple python virtual envs again I’ll fucking just quit. Pipenv. Virtualenv. Poetry. Every fucking one on windows has been riddled with bugs
Linux with KDE.
@railsdev @idk837384 It’s the price, right? People shit on it for its price. You didn’t mention price once! Lol
Nah, $999 for a monitor stand is completely reasonable
Mac wheels
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You’ve forgotten an important point: the price gap between apple and windows machines has closed significantly. A similarly-performing windows machine is now a similar price, if not more expensive, than the equivalent mac.
macOS is fine, for now, but with the direction Apple is going right now with all the spyware they’re putting on iOS, I’d rather start using something else than get caught off guard when they start doing the same with macOS. I still have a MacBook, but I’ve long since switched to using Linux as my main system, so when the day comes and Apple decides to install spyware on macOS, I can ditch it in a heartbeat without shedding a single tear. Also, I’m not a big fan of the lack of options and customisability on macOS. I get that it’s meant to help non-tech-savvy people so that they don’t break their system, but at least make a toggle that’s lets you turn all of that off for those who knows what they’re doing.
Lastly, Linux distros like Fedora or Mint is very easy to use, and at least in my opinion, entirely negates the argument that “Linux is hard”. It’s only as difficult as you want it to be. The only major roadblock is support for common proprietary apps, and while I don’t usually use them, I’ve heard that they’ve become far better recently. As a cherry on top, it’s lighter and, best of all, has no spyware.
Isn’t the whole Macs don’t get viruses thing a myth by this point?
There are a lot more sources for random untrustworthy Windows software than there are for MacOS but that’s on the user the same way keeping your OS up to date is.
Nothing is secure anymore, and it makes sense. The reason there are less apple hacks (anything I’m the ecosystem is susceptible) is by keeping things proprietary and their relative obscurity. There have been hacks on Mac’s, iPhones, but also Linux, android, and of course windows.
I agree but I feel like the obscurity aspect faded out with the I’m a Mac and I’m a PC ads
By relative obscurity, I mean purely market share. By percentages, it’s obscure, by raw numbers it’s still popular with millions of users.
Yeah I mean I’m not talking about ReactOS. It’s hard to measure the amount of malware per market share.
I imagine it’s weighted unevenly dependent on it’s user base and target demographic.
I am literally forced to use Apple at work. I can life with an iPhone, because I use it just for its intended, dumped down usage and I overcame the annoyance about Apples fascism (alternative web engine). If you are not able to automate 100% of your setup on a proper UNIX machine, please do the programming community a favor and switch your line of work. Apple is such a shit show: no keyboard driven workflow w/o extensive customization, how the fuck can I automate 100% of the the setup/customization, why the fuck do I have to upgrade every fucking single program interactively with a click, why are the package managers homebrew and macports as shitshow like Linux 25 years ago, why is macOS so bloated and fucking slow on a machine, why is the development experience for mac worse than Visual Studio 6 (!), Finder is such a sad joke compared to file managers on every other OS or DE, why can I not easily enable transparent file compression when I am a grown up user etc etc etc. Seriously, macOS is nice for consumers with too much money. The literally only thing macOS does which I envy is the tag system which works. Don’t get me wrong, Linux is also a shit show, but compared to macOS it is like the best thing ever.
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Then you are far above the threshold, because Ubuntu desktop and Fedora desktop are easy and widely supported by hardware nowadays. No tinkering necessary.
Spyware
My dude, if you find you need to “babysit” Fedora or Ubuntu, I’m kind of doubting your tech literacy - i.e the basic level of tech literacy you need to operate macOS or Windows with.
And also, just because something is UNIX doesn’t make it good. Shout outs to HPUX.
Also, Apple is tracking you on macOS and iOS, similarly to Google and Microsoft. They call it telemetry, but are you SURE they don’t collect identifying information and canvas you?
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I wish macOS was a well managed Unix system.
Sorry I want a well-managed UNIX system with a nice GUI
Does OSX still have that bug where if you merge two folders of the same name it deletes everything in one of them?
Windows is shit, but the days where you have to do configuration if you don’t use some obscure notebook in one of the most used linux distros is over. I’d say gnome e.g. is pretty close to macos UI wise. There is also Hackintosh if you can’t live without it.
As for why I particularly hate apple:
There are surely more / other points to make.
That’s only iOS, and I’ve heard that EU’s trying to put an end to that. Third party apps works fine with macOS; never once have I even touched the app store, only Homebrew. I do agree that the lack of control and freedom you have is egregious, especially for such an expensive device, there really should be an toggle to turn all of that restriction off for those who knows what they’re doing. I’m also pessimistic about the future of macOS given the absolute bullshit Apple’s been pulling with iOS. I can only hope Asahi Linux gets feature parity with macOS by the time they do the same with macOS, else I’ll have to sell my M1 MacBook and get something else, and that’s a shame because despite less-than-ideal OS, the hardware is amazing.
Arch Linux Desktop for coding and gaming, MacBook for mobile productivity. Best of both worlds.
I know with 100% certainty that if my MacBook did a thing last week, it will do it tomorrow. No lost files due to updates, no weird crashes, no ads, no candy crush. If I’m out somewhere, that reliability is worth the premium. And, at least on Mac computers, you can unlock the walled garden if you really need to.
There is no use case for windows in my workflow. Might not be true for everyone though.
I had the exact same setup before switching to fedora
To be fair, using Arch is kind of a different thing entirely. If you want to compare something to OSX UX/reliability, Mint or the like would be a more fair comparison. They’re way more stable than rolling release, and even rr doesn’t have that many issues.
You would be wrong. They disabled gigabit ethernet in 2012/203 iMacs/Minis with an OS update, 100mbps only after that. They broke PTP for Android phones with an OS update.
Maybe you should read your own sources before making unsubstantiated claims. If it had been intentional, using an adapter would not have solved the problem.
Dude, they disabled a capability of the hardware it shipped with, with a firmware update in the OD update. I have one of the affected Minis. I bought a computer that shipped with gigabit Ethernet and they removed that feature. I don’t care if I could buy an external adapter. Would you think it was ok of Nvidia retroactively capped you 120fps GPU at 12fps because you can just buy another GPU?
I have a 2012 Mac Mini. It runs gigabit just fine. Might be a firmware bug that they never patched?
Edit: And no, I would not take that from Nvidia. But, I don’t think this is intentional, or else my mini would also be affected.
I’m genuinely glad for you and the other poster here who got by unscathed. Maybe we have slightly different chipsets. Mine is bcm57766/b57nd60a.
I don’t have the actual mini on hand right now, its serving as a home server and I am on vacation. I’ll check when I get back. Btw, what version of OSX/macOS are you running on? I had no problem with Catalina and even Ventura (OpenCore).
I have a late 2012 mini on Catalina still. I’m like 99% sure it still runs gigabit. Let me check the switch port it’s on.
Any report?
Sorry. yeah was on my way home super late and fell asleep. Its definately 1Gb.
Arp Lookup
Mac Address lookup on switch
Switch Port is def 1gb. Port right under it is 100 Mb as an example.
Genuinely happy for you to have escaped this issue. I had mine on wifi when the OS update that killed it rolled out, because I couldn’t run a cable to that part of my house, so I didn’t notice until a couple of years after the fact. Even booting Linux or Windows it was still stuck at 100Mbps. There used to be a lot more threads on the Apple forums and they inevitably ended in people being content to just buying external thunderbolt adapters to get the speed back.
Was it ever just flagged as a bug, or some intentional planned obsolescence on the part of Apple?
I will likely need to upgrade this mac at some point. May just make it a server for plex or something. I purposefully bought it because its literally the last user serviceable Mac on the market.
I think there are some workarounds to get past the “supported OS” thing using something like this: https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/
Though at this point, i No longer use it on the greater internet. its mostly just for me to record music with. I probably dont even need it on network anymore.
One doesn’t “get privacy”, privacy can’t be bolted on. One starts with full privacy and then begins losing it to bad decisions, like choosing an inauditable OS that phones home and everything.
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If you run MacOS, I don’t have to.
And yeah, sound like at least one of us doesn’t get privacy.
I don’t care what anyone says. On a user level MacOS is by far the best ready to go experience. I love using Linux Mint and I wish I would use it full time to be free of corporate OS’s. But that’s not the case and Mac is well ahead in my eyes.
Just to be clear, because the following could be misunderstood when posted alone: I’m not looking for an argument, use whatever you prefer. I’m just curious.
What use cases do you have that aren’t available (or take lots of configuration) on Mint?
Thanks for asking. Unfortunately I’m stuck using certain Adobe apps. There are Linux alternatives but I work with clients and external parties so working files need to be shared. So can’t risk compatibility or even drive format issues.
Plus hardware wise apple really hit it out of the park with apple silicon. I’d love to see the desktop gpu race move towards efficient even a little bit to tempt me.
Gotta give credit where credit’s due.
KDE plasma
From my experience with people that are very pro Android vs the pro iOS crowd, it’s just that they’re trying to justify their own choice by uplifting the OS they chose and sometimes tend to focus only on the negatives of the other OS. The same can be said for the various desktop OS crowds.
I’ve used both Android and iOS, as well as Windows and MacOS (and intend to try Linux at some point) over the years and I never thought one was generally better than the other. All these OSs have different target users and that’s ok. Just because you’re not the target user for OS A, doesn’t mean that OS B is objectively the best OS for everyone. It’s just the best OS for you. And why people feel the need to bash other people’s choices or even make fun of them for it is beyond me.
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Several reasons:
On point 4, I hear way more from Apple haters than I do from Apple simps
Really? Back on Reddit, every time I said something about Apple, I get at least 5 comments saying how “that isn’t a problem”, “lol you have no idea” and things like that.
Especially the head. phone. jacks. Oh my, the mental gymnastics were unforgettable.
Even in you’re own example, it sounds like you’re the one going out of your way to complain about it
All you’re complaining about is that people disagreed with you when you removeded about Apple lol
I don’t really care about Apple itself, but rather how they can screw over everyone with shitty practices and people will still defend them.
Headphone jacks are just a very glaring example of that ;)
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Thanks for proving my point.
You are literally suggesting how you have fixed (or rather, worked around) the issue… by suggesting another much more expensive solution. Pretty much just like the other comments I mentioned before, except that they were suggesting wireless headphones, or buying dongles, or any of that jazz.
I just want to charge my phone while I’m wearing my headphones, without having to buy any external dongles or gasp external DACs.
Apple set a terrible precedent for other phone manufacturers by removing the headphone jacks, they showed how they can screw over customers and people will still sing praises for them, it’s baffling because it’s a blatant attempt by Apple to promote their own wireless headphones!
Although it’s been better now in the Android world, but there was once when those companies touted “lack of 3.5mm” as a feature.
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I’m with you, it’s just Cool to hate on Apple or whatever.
It’s mainly the terrible anti-consumer decisions of Apple that everyone dunks on, such as lack of repairability, lack of consumer choice, charging a fortune to change a single $1 chip, and being unable to run programs downloaded from anywhere but the app store.
I agree with everything else you said but this is just flat out incorrect.
I just thought since that’s how the iPhone works it would apply to MacOS as well, sorry.
Because they’re such a heavily walled garden.
It’s great for my parents who know nothing about technology and computers. They just need to go online and check emails and social media.
You can’t upgrade ram or a hard drive. If you sell me a computer, charge $100 per 4 gigs of base speed ram, even more for storage, than have the audacity to tell me I can’t upgrade it myself, you can fuck right off.
Because they’re such a heavily walled garden.
It’s great for my parents who know nothing about technology and computers. They just need to go online and check emails and social media.
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They don’t contribute code back to the community and make billions in profit to the detriment of furthering the human species with their concentration of wealth and minimal innovation (since Jobs died).
That’s not true. Some examples: WebKit LLVM clang Anything here: https://github.com/Developer-Ecosystem-Engineering
You mean like their recent Wine patches, which they trough over the fence instand of working with the community? WebKit was forked AFAIK for open source projects etc. Perhaps Apple conforms to the letter of the law, but they for sure don’t play nice to the spirit of OpenSource. Finally: Given what they borrowed from the *BSDs, I don’t see Apple being a contributor to the *BSDs in any way.