I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don’t think I’ll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending.
All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then?
I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn’t afford to quit. I don’t see how that helps either.
Instead of eating out and not tipping, don’t eat out. The restaurant gets the same amount of money whether you tip or not, I guarantee they don’t give a shit.
This isn’t a “just said”, it’s a fact. Not tipping isn’t a protest, it’s a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the understood worker.
I disagree.
My business transaction is with the restaurant owner, not the staff. The price I see on the bill is the price I am required to pay. Anything extra is not obligatory, no matter how engrained it is in the US and Canada.
Guilting patrons into subsidizing poor wages only enriches the restaurant owner.
Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages.
If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don’t utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping.
If by “enjoyment” you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I’m not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I’d shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others.
There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don’t want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free.
If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option.
If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then:
The business owner benefits by making the same money they would have if you had tipped, no incentive to change
You benefit from a lower price
The server works just as hard, but now does not get honesty compensation.
This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage).
Yes, you should be shamed. There’s no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others.
Candy being enjoyable doesn’t entitle you to steal it if you can’t afford it. Not agreeing with “candy pricing” culture doesn’t excuse it.
I don’t care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn’t entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can’t afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn’t use it.
Again, the business transaction is between the patron and the restaurant owner. The employee’s wages are not the responsibility of the patron. They are the responsibility of the owner.
You’re saying “…just for taking it without paying.”
However, I am paying. When the bill comes, it is a full account of what the restaurant charges me. End of story.
Edit:
No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that the restaurant owner is solely responsible for employee wages.
Everything else is social shaming.
You’re right, your contract is with the business. If you don’t want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it.
I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don’t tip, right? Surely you’re not waiting until after they’ve given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work.
I have sympathy for underpaid workers. But I don’t think I’ll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such. Actually your commands sound a bit condescending.
“I have sympathy for underpaid workers.”
…but they should feed me while I do nothing to help them, instead I’ll be here actively enriching the people exploiting their labor.
“But I don’t think I’ll change my tipping attitude just because you said such and such.”
I’m sure that sounded cool in concept, but basically all this says is that you find the idea of changing your mind due to dialog silly. How sad.
“Actually your commands sound a bit condescending”
Oh wow, I hope my analysis doesn’t come across like that. You might stop tipping - oh, wait…
All good points. But since tipping is supporting this broken system, and not tipping seems to be worse, what do you suggest then?
I could just not go out, sure. Just stay out of it. If enough people do that, this wil lead to less customers, more employers closing their business, more employers loosing the job they couldn’t afford to quit. I don’t see how that helps either.
So I’m listening. What do you suggest?
I wanted to highlight
This isn’t a “just said”, it’s a fact. Not tipping isn’t a protest, it’s a self-imposed discount at the expense of the worker. The business owner makes exactly the same money, the only one who suffers is the understood worker.
I disagree. My business transaction is with the restaurant owner, not the staff. The price I see on the bill is the price I am required to pay. Anything extra is not obligatory, no matter how engrained it is in the US and Canada. Guilting patrons into subsidizing poor wages only enriches the restaurant owner.
Did you not read what I said? The restaurant owner is equally enriched whether or not you tip. Tipping is factored into the menu price; if tipping was not expected, the menu price would be higher to cover appropriate wages.
If you disagree with the system, limit your patronage to establishments that don’t utilize tipping and pay appropriate wages. By not tipping, you are exploiting the system at the expense of the worker; I repeat, the restaurant owner is equally enriched, only the worker suffers when you exploit the expectation of a tip to provide yourself a price lower than would be available if the system was not predicted on tipping.
Are all patrons the Monopoly Man? No. So stop trying to shame people for having a little enjoyment in their lives.
We both want the same thing: better, thriving wages for people doing an honest day’s work.
Tipping ‘culture’ has gone too far. We all agree. It doesn’t mean not going out for special occasions because of a flawed system.
If by “enjoyment” you mean having someone wait on you at a restaurant, I’m not shaming people for having enjoyment, just for taking it without paying. Same way I’d shame them for any other form of enjoyment at the expense of others.
There are restaurants that explicitly inform their customers that they pay their staff a higher wage and tipping is not expected. If you don’t want to tip and still want your enjoyment, eat at those establishments shame-free.
If you disagree with tipping culture and want to incentivize business owners to pay their workers a thriving wage for their hard work, then stop spending money on establishments that utilize tipping, encourage your friends to do the same, and write the business owners to tell them why. Another shame-free option.
If you go to an establishment where tipping is expected (and menu prices are therefore lower) but choose not to tip, then:
This does not incentive the owner to raise wages. You are exploiting the expectation of a tip that set the low menu prices. If you honestly wanted the server to make a thriving wage, your options are to pay that wage yourself or go to an establishment that does (and consequentially has higher prices to cover this higher wage).
Yes, you should be shamed. There’s no excuse for enjoyment via exploitating others.
Candy being enjoyable doesn’t entitle you to steal it if you can’t afford it. Not agreeing with “candy pricing” culture doesn’t excuse it.
I don’t care if your doctor or your barber or your banker gives you candy for free, that doesn’t entitle you to take it for free from the store. Taking something without paying is theft. Labor is no different. If you can’t afford it, go to a restaurant that doesn’t use it.
Again, the business transaction is between the patron and the restaurant owner. The employee’s wages are not the responsibility of the patron. They are the responsibility of the owner.
You’re saying “…just for taking it without paying.” However, I am paying. When the bill comes, it is a full account of what the restaurant charges me. End of story.
Edit: No amount of mental gymnastics will change the fact that the restaurant owner is solely responsible for employee wages. Everything else is social shaming.
You’re right, your contract is with the business. If you don’t want a separate transaction for your server, then just be honest about it.
I do assume you are being honest, and telling your server at the beginning of the meal that you don’t tip, right? Surely you’re not waiting until after they’ve given you the customary service to withhold the customary payment, right? That would certainly be shameful indeed, and undercut your desire for them to receive thriving pay for honest work.