To be fair, this should be the other way around. All these foss apps are the teletubbies because they’re clunky and have major bugs. Sync is the power ranger.
You’re still stuck in 2002 or something? Most of the web is literally FOSS. Gone are the myths of free software being worse when the whole world literally runs on it.
Counterpoint: most Javascript on the web is obfuscated to all hell. While technically you can see the code that’s running, it being obfuscated is definitely not in the spirit of FOSS, and largely the open source components of servers are being used to prop up all the closed-source stuff reaching end users.
It’s not about Javascript. All of the frameworks and front end tools are open source. React, nextjs, tailwind etc. - all are foss projects and run the best UX and UI we know of.
My point is more that all these open source tools have been used by many, many, many sites to build a series of black boxes on top, for which there is no source available. I suppose one easy example is the existence of EME in open source browsers, the existence of which being the reason I actually don’t run a pre-compiled binary of Firefox, instead building it myself, with EME not built in.
I don’t really want to be that guy, but at least in the case of React and NextJS, the companies have a business reason for them being open source.
Meta uses React internally in a lot of projects. Every other company or developer making contributions in their spare time is free labor, and it directly improves Meta’s own products.
Vercel has a vested interest in having developers adopt NextJS, as they sell web hosting. It’s easier to build a community of developers around an open-source product, and they even help out with contributions, documentation writing, and QA.
Counter counterpoint: Often frontend js code is minified so that it is smaller and more efficient to transfer to the browser. For FOSS projects you should still be able to get access to that code, unminified, from the project git repo. In the same way desktop apps often ship as binary executables but you can still see the code that was compiled to build them if you find the source repo.
It does make things harder to debug for an average user but it makes it faster/more efficient to run for most end users (in the case of the desktop or phone app it makes it possible to run without needing compiler toolchains that mom and pop likely wouldn’t be able to grasp).
The key thing isn’t that what the end user’s computer runs is readable and editable but whether the code used to build that artifact is available easily and what restrictions there are on editing and redistributing that code.
On security concerns FOSS should be the better solution. Its code is readable and auditable by everyone. Closed Source need trust/faith in a company or in just one single person.
He’s not saying all FOSS software is bad, only the FOSS Lemmy clients are.
Personally, I found Jerboa to be okay. But Sync definitely feels more polished here, it’s not a question of FOSS and not-FOSS. I still have Jerboa installed though, just to see how it evolves, and I might switch back to it in the future.
Sure, but in this case, most of the lemmy-clients (FOSS or not) are bad.
I have problems logging into my accounts (seems like some instances want my email as a username and many clients cannot handle this after I switched accounts), some clients don’t feature editing or deleting your posts, some clients don’t show my saved content, some clients don’t allow to see what you posted
Sure, much of this is because they started from scratch and will maybe surpass sync some day; but right now I couldn’t find something that isn’t worth.
(didn’t try infinity yet, tho)
it’s not necessarily “FOSS is bad”; it’s just that the current lemmy-ecosystem is in it’s child shoes (I have the feeling this proverb doesn’t work in english?)
That said: I use Sync4Lemmy since 5 minutes and this is my first comment; so let’s see if/what it will deliver
Convenience is objectively not superior to morals. Sync gets personal data, while Jerboa does not. Period. Jerboa has a little jank in not having fluid scrolling, but this is a matter of minor convenience. Get back to me when non-FOSS apps do not take any data.
Never heard that idiom before, (is it German?)
Sentiment is clear though, I would probably just say “in its infancy” or something.
Also completely agree with your points. I’m a major supporter of FOSS but at the end of the day, I’m gonna use what actually works - the same as everyone else.
it’s just that the current lemmy-ecosystem is in it’s child shoes (I have the feeling this proverb doesn’t work in english?)
The meaning is perfectly clear.
I believe English speakers would say “…is in its infancy” but that’s just a common way of saying “early stages” not a proverb per se.
Most FOSS apps are equal to or better than proprietary software when it comes to functionality, but look like they were coded in the stone age.
Most casual users value GUI over everything. And while I personally can overlook shitty user interfaces on apps I use once in a blue moon, for a social media app I’m using daily, that’s a no go.
Yeah a lot of open source apps looks ugly but are just better. I have no idea why design is not a priority. Just look at the most popular products anywhere. They all look good.
UX people cannot make their own apps without hiring devs ( requiring money ).
Devs can create Open Source apps but they cannot afford to hire UX guys so the UX sucks.
Larger projects can attract both devs and UX guys but getting to popularity is hard and, even then, coordinating these diverse teams ( eg. dev and UX ) take project management skill and effort. That is yet another skill set that has to volunteer to be paid.
For a proprietary app, you simply hire the people you need. When you start, you need UX either to attract uses or money. So, UX is one of you first roles you spring for if you are proprietary ( depending on the market ).
Companies aren’t making squat from happy fans donating a token amount to show support of the software. Everything adjacent to the open source software is profitable (enterprise sales, support contracts, hardware, corporate sponsors/funding, and so forth), but you’re going to have a really hard time selling something to consumers when they can just as easily get it for free.
To be fair, this should be the other way around. All these foss apps are the teletubbies because they’re clunky and have major bugs. Sync is the power ranger.
Nah
Major bugs? That’s not true at all, unless you mean “no tracking” is a bug?
There’s only crashalytics on sync. No tracking.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.syncapps.lemmy_sync&hl=en_US
That’s a deal breaker for me, no matter how good that app may be.
There are tracking for ads for AdMob and Amazon, it’s the first part of the privacy policy
Very good.
You can’t hit backspace on jerboa without it mushing words together
infinity seems pretty awesome judging by the short time that I’ve spent with it
Connect is not broken that I’ve noticed after the first week or so.
You’re still stuck in 2002 or something? Most of the web is literally FOSS. Gone are the myths of free software being worse when the whole world literally runs on it.
Counterpoint: most Javascript on the web is obfuscated to all hell. While technically you can see the code that’s running, it being obfuscated is definitely not in the spirit of FOSS, and largely the open source components of servers are being used to prop up all the closed-source stuff reaching end users.
It’s not about Javascript. All of the frameworks and front end tools are open source. React, nextjs, tailwind etc. - all are foss projects and run the best UX and UI we know of.
My point is more that all these open source tools have been used by many, many, many sites to build a series of black boxes on top, for which there is no source available. I suppose one easy example is the existence of EME in open source browsers, the existence of which being the reason I actually don’t run a pre-compiled binary of Firefox, instead building it myself, with EME not built in.
I don’t really want to be that guy, but at least in the case of React and NextJS, the companies have a business reason for them being open source.
Meta uses React internally in a lot of projects. Every other company or developer making contributions in their spare time is free labor, and it directly improves Meta’s own products.
Vercel has a vested interest in having developers adopt NextJS, as they sell web hosting. It’s easier to build a community of developers around an open-source product, and they even help out with contributions, documentation writing, and QA.
Tbh I’m not exactly sure how is that relevant? Be it Jesus guiding me to make TempleOS or incentive to sell some service the outcome is the same foss
Counter counterpoint: Often frontend js code is minified so that it is smaller and more efficient to transfer to the browser. For FOSS projects you should still be able to get access to that code, unminified, from the project git repo. In the same way desktop apps often ship as binary executables but you can still see the code that was compiled to build them if you find the source repo.
It does make things harder to debug for an average user but it makes it faster/more efficient to run for most end users (in the case of the desktop or phone app it makes it possible to run without needing compiler toolchains that mom and pop likely wouldn’t be able to grasp).
The key thing isn’t that what the end user’s computer runs is readable and editable but whether the code used to build that artifact is available easily and what restrictions there are on editing and redistributing that code.
On security concerns FOSS should be the better solution. Its code is readable and auditable by everyone. Closed Source need trust/faith in a company or in just one single person.
He’s not saying all FOSS software is bad, only the FOSS Lemmy clients are.
Personally, I found Jerboa to be okay. But Sync definitely feels more polished here, it’s not a question of FOSS and not-FOSS. I still have Jerboa installed though, just to see how it evolves, and I might switch back to it in the future.
(not op)
Sure, but in this case, most of the lemmy-clients (FOSS or not) are bad.
I have problems logging into my accounts (seems like some instances want my email as a username and many clients cannot handle this after I switched accounts), some clients don’t feature editing or deleting your posts, some clients don’t show my saved content, some clients don’t allow to see what you posted
Sure, much of this is because they started from scratch and will maybe surpass sync some day; but right now I couldn’t find something that isn’t worth. (didn’t try infinity yet, tho)
it’s not necessarily “FOSS is bad”; it’s just that the current lemmy-ecosystem is in it’s child shoes (I have the feeling this proverb doesn’t work in english?)
That said: I use Sync4Lemmy since 5 minutes and this is my first comment; so let’s see if/what it will deliver
Convenience is objectively not superior to morals. Sync gets personal data, while Jerboa does not. Period. Jerboa has a little jank in not having fluid scrolling, but this is a matter of minor convenience. Get back to me when non-FOSS apps do not take any data.
Never heard that idiom before, (is it German?) Sentiment is clear though, I would probably just say “in its infancy” or something.
Also completely agree with your points. I’m a major supporter of FOSS but at the end of the day, I’m gonna use what actually works - the same as everyone else.
That idiom is intuitive as heck though, I like it
The meaning is perfectly clear. I believe English speakers would say “…is in its infancy” but that’s just a common way of saying “early stages” not a proverb per se.
Most FOSS apps are equal to or better than proprietary software when it comes to functionality, but look like they were coded in the stone age.
Most casual users value GUI over everything. And while I personally can overlook shitty user interfaces on apps I use once in a blue moon, for a social media app I’m using daily, that’s a no go.
Yeah a lot of open source apps looks ugly but are just better. I have no idea why design is not a priority. Just look at the most popular products anywhere. They all look good.
UX people cannot make their own apps without hiring devs ( requiring money ).
Devs can create Open Source apps but they cannot afford to hire UX guys so the UX sucks.
Larger projects can attract both devs and UX guys but getting to popularity is hard and, even then, coordinating these diverse teams ( eg. dev and UX ) take project management skill and effort. That is yet another skill set that has to volunteer to be paid.
For a proprietary app, you simply hire the people you need. When you start, you need UX either to attract uses or money. So, UX is one of you first roles you spring for if you are proprietary ( depending on the market ).
To be fair they probably had most of the code ready, and just had to port it to Lemmy.
Yeah I’ve used all the apps in this post and Sync is just light years ahead of all of them right now. Well worth the 19$ to remove the ads
Kinda shitty to hate on Sync like this for not being foss when the dev never claimed it to be.
It’s always justified to hate on proprietary software
Might be a hot take but it’s also justified to try and make money from software development that is not prefatory
It’s not illegal to make business with open source software
It’s not illegal, but it’s not profitable.
Companies aren’t making squat from happy fans donating a token amount to show support of the software. Everything adjacent to the open source software is profitable (enterprise sales, support contracts, hardware, corporate sponsors/funding, and so forth), but you’re going to have a really hard time selling something to consumers when they can just as easily get it for free.
Sync isn’t some international conglomerate harvesting your data, it’s one dude’s passion project. Guy’s gotta eat and monetizing FOSS is real hard.
Sync has gone to subscription payments:
Profile -> Remove adsremoves ads permanently for 19$The Ultra subscription is for if you want to support the dev further.