• argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    0
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    “Auth-Left” is an oxymoron. Stalinism is just another flavor of top-down oppression of the common people, and all such oppression is right-wing by definition.

    • chomskysfave5@lemmy.film
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Seems like every time the left is accused of anything, it’s never actually the left that did it. It’s always some nefarious actor. The left cannot and never has done anything wrong… except for not being left enough, of course.

      • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        0
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I literally just linked you the historical definition of leftism. Those who supported the aristocracy were on the right; those who supported the people were on the left. Now tell me, do you mean to claim that Stalin supported his people, or do you agree with me that he supported only himself and his cronies? Because if it’s the latter, then by the aforementioned historical definition, he was not a leftist.

        • chomskysfave5@lemmy.film
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          I never disputed your link on the origins of the term.

          All I said is that it seems very convenient that the left cannot and never has done anything wrong other than not being left enough. You’re either completely benevolent or you’re not a leftist, by definition.

          There is no act that can’t be waived away as being “not actually left-wing.”

            • chomskysfave5@lemmy.film
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              0
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              The word dishonest implies premeditation. I don’t think today’s leftists are evil or dumb. I think the hardcore leftists are in a well-intentioned trap that creates a dangerous and frankly annoying “us vs. them” mentality in which they are convinced, beyond rationale, that they are doing good, which is all that really matters to them.

              It creates a left=moral good paradigm in their heads. Where, like I said, the left can’t do anything wrong because the left=good.

              I mean, look at how they talk about centrists, who are not really their enemy. They’re supposed to be the people you try to persuade, but the left has gone so religiously dogmatic that even centrists are almost as bad as Nazis (e.i. right-wingers)

              Look, I’m fundamentally with you. The right-wing is capable of terrible, horrific things. They’re more dangerous historically. You’ll get no argument from me man. Some of it makes me sick. I believe that morals and values should be a part of politics too. I’m no stranger to leftism either, I was extremely interested in it for quite a while.

              But I know a trap when I see it. Clearly something is going here, fucking socio-economics is becoming a religion.

              • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                0
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                That’s why I cited an objective, historical definition of leftism: so that I can say that no, the people you’re talking about are not leftists, because they don’t fit this definition. They may call themselves leftists, but that doesn’t make it so, any more than Hitler calling himself a socialist, Stalin calling himself a communist, or North Korea calling itself a democratic people’s republic makes it so.

                The same goes for religion, by the way. Thumping the Bible doesn’t make you a Christian. Loving thy neighbor does.

                • chomskysfave5@lemmy.film
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  You’re preoccupied with this French revolutionary definition of leftism as the ultimate sieve for what makes a leftist and I’m trying to make a point that today’s leftism is a movement that isn’t capable of self-criticism because it’s become a religious movement as opposed to a political one. Things change, we don’t live in revolutionary France.

                  I feel like we’re talking past each other here… I wish the vulkan mind meld was a real thing so we can actually get somewhere with this.

                  • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    You’re preoccupied with this French revolutionary definition of leftism as the ultimate sieve for what makes a leftist

                    Yes, because that was before the likes of Stalin and Mao tried to appropriate the term “leftism” for their own selfish purposes.

                    I’m trying to make a point that today’s leftism is a movement that isn’t capable of self-criticism because it’s become a religious movement as opposed to a political one.

                    I’m trying to make a point that those are fake leftists.

                    The disagreement, as I understand it, is this: when a person wearing a label of virtue acts contrary to that label, you believe that corrupts the label, whereas I believe that makes the person unworthy of the label and refuse to recognize the person as having the label.