They want you to hand copy what ChatGPT outputs and turn it in? That’s a terrible response to AI. If they want to hold you accountable, they should have you write it right there in front of them.
Ok, so hand copy all your assignments from ChatGPT all semester and I, the instructor, will count them as 50 percent of your final grade. The other 50 percent is based on a hand-written final essay written in class. How do you think you will do?
I am old so all of my formal university education was completed decades ago, but people cheated back then too and in my experience it’s usually way more effort than it’s worth as opposed to just doing the work and coming out with the skills you’ll need to be successful at the next level.
That’s my dreary little bit of moralizing for the day.
This has nothing to do with work from home policies. I also don’t know how to approach the concept that completing schoolwork in school is “in person surveillance” and not just “schoolwork”
It’s like (lack of) work from home politicies in that it’s forcing people to do things a specific way in a specific place even though it’s much less convenient AND much less efficient.
It’s in person surveillance because “right in front of” implies physical proximity where the teacher is watching, making some students unnecessarily anxious.
I get that you probably grew up in a more primitive time where such methods were the norm, but things change as society progresses and your industrial age solution to an information age challenge is likely to cause a lot more harm than good, if it even does good at all.
He thinks AI should do all the thinking for him and he should be able to take all of the credit, so he doesn’t have to learn anything. Ignorance is something to strive for to these people because ignorance = less work.
I said you think, and you do. Anyone who advocates allowing young people to let AI do their schoolwork for them thinks that way. All your arguments point to letting people do such, therefore that’s what you want and what you think. I am an adult who actually paid attention in school and I can read context of conversations… You’re not getting anything past me.
I think students ONLY demonstrating their knowledge in class and being forced to do work that would be better accomplished elsewhere is primitive, yes.
I think school should take advantage of modern technology such as computers and the internet without letting doing the pseudo-plagiarism of having GPT do everything. Enforcement of the latter doesn’t necessitate going back to how things were done in the 80s and earlier.
You said “Schools should use technology; students shouldn’t use ChatGPT,” but this is devoid of actual ideas on how to address what we’re talking about
If absolutely necessary, you could install software that detects and blocks ChatGPT. It’s probably already available. You don’t have to go back to the stone age every time a new technology poses potential problems.
But why would you? You should be able to use any sources you want to learn whenever you want, just be prepared for the exam. I wrote hundreds useless homeworks like this in middle school and I remember nothing from most of them.
You won’t be prepared for the exam unless you actually do the work ahead of time. That may not be immediately true in middle school, but it’s definitely true by the time you get to upper division undergrad coursework, at least if you’re in a competitive program. You really are only selling yourself short in terms of being competitive at the next level.
This is even more true in grad school where you are expected to produce twice as much in half the time.
Because participating in life means you have to know things, not Google.
If you won’t, we’ll just use Google and save money by not even hiring you. If you can do it with an AI, so can we, so we don’t need you. It’s as simple as that.
Never said anything of the sort. That’s your own uncreative view of the world refusing to see any alternative to how things were done back when they didn’t have the technology we have today.
Sounds like a disability act lawsuit waiting to happen tbh. Some of us have very poor fine motor skills or worse and would be severely disadvantaged by having to do even short hand written assignments…
Germany traditionally is quite shocking in their practice of segregating children with disabilities into special Förderschulen. Whereas the U.S. has the Individual’s with Disabilities Education Act since the 1970s, Germany was basically forced into integration recently after the country signed the U.N. Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in 2009. And even then, they are taking their sweet time to integrate. See e.g. https://www.aktion-mensch.de/inklusion/bildung/hintergrund/zahlen-daten-und-fakten/inklusionsquoten-in-deutschland as how currently, slightly less than half of German students with disabilities go to a regular school (the Inklusionsanteil).
Fun fact, fine motor skills are taught differently in different countries. In some countries, children spend a considerable time improving their writing skills and even the less gifted reach a reasonable level. Of course, I am not talking about children with central nervous system or physical disabilities.
Also, spending so much time on fine motor skills reduces their ability to work in other, somewhat more relevant skills.
I’m not talking about students who haven’t done their cursive exercises, I’m talking about students with disabilities making hand writing inherently much more difficult than for other students, especially the ones who’d have to fight tooth and nail to prove it because their handicap is generally thought to be “only mental” in spite of being more complex, like ADHD.
If someone actually had a disability, they wouldn’t have to do it or would be given other accommodations. That’s basically how it was for thousands of years before people had word processors.
Lemmy accidentally deleted my comment right before I was going to post it, I had to rewrite it.
I’ve fought for years to get accommodations that I was legally obligated to, (504 Plan) fought with a school, (they were actively refusing to give accommodations, illegally) for 3 years, before giving up and switching schools.
The next couple of schools I tried were not well equipped to provide accommodations, albeit not malicious, (in one case not telling anyone until two months in)
Even after I finally got what I was legally owed, I still had to put up with often writing assignments by hand, (I have fine motor coordination disorder, as the commenter above mentioned), including an entire test. (One of the end of year ones for my sophomore year)
I also have CAPD, which allowed me to skip taking Spanish class, after two years of fighting for it. (I failed the first year of Spanish for obvious reasons, I had to retake it the next year.) (This was at the first school, I don’t know why I was able to get this accommodation but not the others, I was in middle school)
Yeah, except many schools don’t have the tools to properly do such accommodation, meaning that the students with disabilities are inevitably left behind.
Especially the ones like me with hard to detect disabilities such as ADHD who would have to fight tooth and nail to get their disability acknowledged in the first place and then to convince them of the fact that ADHD, while being mainly mental, DOES significantly impair fine motor skills used for hand writing.
Teachers are starting to enforce hand written assignments to stop the use of chatGPT
Sure, but you can clearly see from the result that it’s not handwritten. The person could have used a normal printer.
This video says it’s possible to make it look like a human wrote it.
If you’re wondering if this is more work than writing the actual essay, we don’t talk about that here.
That’s really cool
Could one not just copy a chat got essay by hand?
Can’t jack off, play league, and write your homework with just two hands
They want you to hand copy what ChatGPT outputs and turn it in? That’s a terrible response to AI. If they want to hold you accountable, they should have you write it right there in front of them.
Ok, so hand copy all your assignments from ChatGPT all semester and I, the instructor, will count them as 50 percent of your final grade. The other 50 percent is based on a hand-written final essay written in class. How do you think you will do?
I am old so all of my formal university education was completed decades ago, but people cheated back then too and in my experience it’s usually way more effort than it’s worth as opposed to just doing the work and coming out with the skills you’ll need to be successful at the next level.
That’s my dreary little bit of moralizing for the day.
It’s a deterrent, not an end all be all solution to end cheating.
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Now you’re sounding like Elon Musk demanding that people who work better from home return to Tesla offices…
Only worse, since you also want to add an extra anxiety-inducing and impractical layer of in-person surveillance 🤦
This has nothing to do with work from home policies. I also don’t know how to approach the concept that completing schoolwork in school is “in person surveillance” and not just “schoolwork”
It’s like (lack of) work from home politicies in that it’s forcing people to do things a specific way in a specific place even though it’s much less convenient AND much less efficient.
It’s in person surveillance because “right in front of” implies physical proximity where the teacher is watching, making some students unnecessarily anxious.
I get that you probably grew up in a more primitive time where such methods were the norm, but things change as society progresses and your industrial age solution to an information age challenge is likely to cause a lot more harm than good, if it even does good at all.
Ok, so if you think students demonstrating their knowledge in class is “primitive,” can you describe how you think school should work?
He thinks AI should do all the thinking for him and he should be able to take all of the credit, so he doesn’t have to learn anything. Ignorance is something to strive for to these people because ignorance = less work.
Nope, never said any such nonsense. Sounds like you’re projecting your own ignorance onto me and whomever else “these people” are.
I said you think, and you do. Anyone who advocates allowing young people to let AI do their schoolwork for them thinks that way. All your arguments point to letting people do such, therefore that’s what you want and what you think. I am an adult who actually paid attention in school and I can read context of conversations… You’re not getting anything past me.
Now go do your homework, lazy fucking brat.
I think students ONLY demonstrating their knowledge in class and being forced to do work that would be better accomplished elsewhere is primitive, yes.
I think school should take advantage of modern technology such as computers and the internet without letting doing the pseudo-plagiarism of having GPT do everything. Enforcement of the latter doesn’t necessitate going back to how things were done in the 80s and earlier.
You said “Schools should use technology; students shouldn’t use ChatGPT,” but this is devoid of actual ideas on how to address what we’re talking about
If absolutely necessary, you could install software that detects and blocks ChatGPT. It’s probably already available. You don’t have to go back to the stone age every time a new technology poses potential problems.
You sound like a lazy spoiled brat who just wants to get out of doing homework and play video games all day.
Homework requiring writing some shit down from Wikipedia is useless homework anyways - and here this seems to be the case.
They’re trying to make sure you actually read the material. 🤦
But why would you? You should be able to use any sources you want to learn whenever you want, just be prepared for the exam. I wrote hundreds useless homeworks like this in middle school and I remember nothing from most of them.
You won’t be prepared for the exam unless you actually do the work ahead of time. That may not be immediately true in middle school, but it’s definitely true by the time you get to upper division undergrad coursework, at least if you’re in a competitive program. You really are only selling yourself short in terms of being competitive at the next level.
This is even more true in grad school where you are expected to produce twice as much in half the time.
Because participating in life means you have to know things, not Google.
If you won’t, we’ll just use Google and save money by not even hiring you. If you can do it with an AI, so can we, so we don’t need you. It’s as simple as that.
Stop being lazy and pay attention in class.
Never said anything of the sort. That’s your own uncreative view of the world refusing to see any alternative to how things were done back when they didn’t have the technology we have today.
What a stupid approach - have those teachers never seen their students copy each other during tests?
It’s a deterrent, not an end all be all solution to end cheating.
Sounds like a disability act lawsuit waiting to happen tbh. Some of us have very poor fine motor skills or worse and would be severely disadvantaged by having to do even short hand written assignments…
Germany traditionally is quite shocking in their practice of segregating children with disabilities into special Förderschulen. Whereas the U.S. has the Individual’s with Disabilities Education Act since the 1970s, Germany was basically forced into integration recently after the country signed the U.N. Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in 2009. And even then, they are taking their sweet time to integrate. See e.g. https://www.aktion-mensch.de/inklusion/bildung/hintergrund/zahlen-daten-und-fakten/inklusionsquoten-in-deutschland as how currently, slightly less than half of German students with disabilities go to a regular school (the Inklusionsanteil).
Fun fact, fine motor skills are taught differently in different countries. In some countries, children spend a considerable time improving their writing skills and even the less gifted reach a reasonable level. Of course, I am not talking about children with central nervous system or physical disabilities.
Also, spending so much time on fine motor skills reduces their ability to work in other, somewhat more relevant skills.
I’m not talking about students who haven’t done their cursive exercises, I’m talking about students with disabilities making hand writing inherently much more difficult than for other students, especially the ones who’d have to fight tooth and nail to prove it because their handicap is generally thought to be “only mental” in spite of being more complex, like ADHD.
If someone actually had a disability, they wouldn’t have to do it or would be given other accommodations. That’s basically how it was for thousands of years before people had word processors.
Lemmy accidentally deleted my comment right before I was going to post it, I had to rewrite it.
I’ve fought for years to get accommodations that I was legally obligated to, (504 Plan) fought with a school, (they were actively refusing to give accommodations, illegally) for 3 years, before giving up and switching schools.
The next couple of schools I tried were not well equipped to provide accommodations, albeit not malicious, (in one case not telling anyone until two months in)
Even after I finally got what I was legally owed, I still had to put up with often writing assignments by hand, (I have fine motor coordination disorder, as the commenter above mentioned), including an entire test. (One of the end of year ones for my sophomore year)
I also have CAPD, which allowed me to skip taking Spanish class, after two years of fighting for it. (I failed the first year of Spanish for obvious reasons, I had to retake it the next year.) (This was at the first school, I don’t know why I was able to get this accommodation but not the others, I was in middle school)
Yeah, except many schools don’t have the tools to properly do such accommodation, meaning that the students with disabilities are inevitably left behind.
Especially the ones like me with hard to detect disabilities such as ADHD who would have to fight tooth and nail to get their disability acknowledged in the first place and then to convince them of the fact that ADHD, while being mainly mental, DOES significantly impair fine motor skills used for hand writing.
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They would almost certainly make accommodations. I saw many such examples throughout my years of schooling.
What the actual …