Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and other European leaders have applauded the US for passing a vital €89 billion aid bill which has been struggling to make it through the House of Representatives for months.
The House swiftly approved roughly €89 billion in foreign aid for Ukraine, Israel and other US allies in a rare Saturday session as Democrats and Republicans banded together after months of hard-right resistance over renewed American support for repelling Russia’s invasion.
With an overwhelming vote, €57 billion in aid for Ukraine passed in a matter of minutes, a strong showing as American lawmakers race to deliver a fresh round of US support to the war-torn ally. Many Democrats cheered on the House floor and waved blue-and-yellow flags of Ukraine.
Do you really not see the irony? Not even the smallest bit? Holy shit…
You can’t claim my kitchen because it was your 50 years ago, but Ukraine can claim Crimea because it used to be theirs 10 years ago?
So the period where you can claim something as your because it belonged to you some time ago is greater than 10 years but smaller than 50 years, is that right?
Okay I actually know the answer to that question - it’s “whatever USA says it is” (rephrased to something like international agreements or UN stuff), sure.
Anyway, this is offtopic. Calling each other terrorists (yeah Russia does that as well) is as counter-productive as it gets, but let’s discuss it anyway.
Definition (from wikipedia, not mine!):
Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims. The term is used in this regard primarily to refer to intentional violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants. There are various different definitions of terrorism, with no universal agreement about it.Regime of zelensky uses violence (in the form of kidnapping people on the streets and sending them to the meat grinder) and fear (people fear to go outside because they can be kidnapped at any time, fear for themselves and for their family) to achieve political aims of conquering territories (you can read it as “reclaiming”, does not matter).
So isn’t it the west that shouldn’t be negotiating with zelensky and instead sending military aid to Russia to deal with terrorists as soon as possible?
See? This is why nobody talks to you. Because you think Russia “owns” Crimea because they took it 10 years ago. Because you think Russia owns abkazia and south Ossetia because they took it in 2008. Chechnya in 2000 and Transnistria in 92.
You don’t wanna admit it, because as I’ve said, you’re either getting paid or you’re too dumb to see it, but the common denominator is Russia here. They’re the aggressors.
And let’s not pretend that all the Russians that have suddenly showed up in western countries aren’t running away from getting drafted. All the poor ones that couldn’t are doing what? Living happily in Russia or are sent to the front? Ofc you’ll say they’re all happily serving. Except for all the ones that have surrendered and claimed they weren’t even told they were going to war. But that’s all Ukrainian propaganda, right?
Everything Russia does is fine and normal and everything Ukraine does is kidnap, kill, corruption, etc. Right? Makes perfect sense… When you’re being paid by one side… Shrug I’m done… Hope you get whatever it is you deserve :) bb!
Thank you for proving my point! Yes, you are right, they are running away from getting draft.
Because they can! They have a choice! Ukrainians don’t. Ukrainians are trapped in Ukraine and slowly getting butchered thanks to the support from your government.
Ahahahha… running away from draft = they had a choice. No, if they had been given a choice they would’ve stayed home. Unlike all the Ukrainians that were forced to flee from the invaders. Because there’s plenty of those as well. But I’m sure you’ll have something to say about that as well… russians in Europe= they have a choice. Ukrainians in Europe = what? Please tell me, I’m sure it’s not “because they can! They have a choice!” Is it?
Also nice dodging of everything else I’ve said. It’s great to see your conversation skills. You’re almost as good as a 3 year old…" Noooo, why won’t you people have a discussion?! Why?! Is it because I’m a vatnik?! What?! Noooo, I’m not, I’m trying to have a discussion but I only bring up lies and twisted bullshit that I’ve been paid to say and ignore everything else, noooo… "
Anyway, let’s keep going, let’s get you some more rubles. Or is it monero for you? xD Tell me more.
They have SOME choice. Ukrainians have none.
They CANNOT (at least legally) flee from the invaders. They are locked in a west-sponsored prison called “Ukraine”.
Russians in Europe = they bought a ticket, boarded a plane and landed in Europe. As simple as that.
Ukrainians in Europe = they either
So - yes exactly, just like I said, people on the territories controlled by Russia have a choice, on territories controlled by Ukraine - they are imprisoned.
That is quite funny, because I’m constantly being accused of that, yet nobody even pointed out what exactly I lie about let alone disproving those lies… Weird, don’t you think?..
What exactly would you like me to respond to? It’s mostly Ad Hominem about me being stupid, or the usual western “you have different opinion than me so you must be a Russian bot / paid by Russia”, I don’t think it makes sense to respond to that.
I’ve never said that, if that’s what you want me to respond to.
Let me bring it up again then, because if you didn’t ignore it before then you must’ve simply not noticed it. Russia took Crimea and that was fine because it was theirs to begin with or whatever right? Georgia Ossetia and Abkhazia ? Chechnya? Transnistria? All of these democratically elected to be “independent” or to be russian right? Definitely nothing going on there.
And well, I personally know plenty of Ukrainians that aren’t hiding and they haven’t been drafted yet. So I don’t see why they’d need to resort to kidnappings to get people on the frontlines.Go on twitch and other streaming services and you can talk to them yourself. And not talking about the popular ones, there’s people with 0-3 viewers, so you can’t claim they’re public figures and they’re exceptions or whatever .
I am not saying either of those things are okay or not okay (as well as other countries annexing other countries’ territories btw), because it depends on whether the people there wanted to part of Russia or not (and we cannot know this for sure, as different sides will claim differently).
As for the Crimea in particular though, I was there a few times while it still belonged to Ukraine, and the people I’ve met there were mostly extremely pro-Russian and some were openly saying they would like to be a part of Russia. But of course this is a hearsay, and you may have heard different things (which wouldn’t mean that either one of us is wrong!), but as I said before I do not assert that this is okay or not okay, I am only saying that I find it quite possible that in case of Crimea it was indeed will of the people (which would make it okay).
The same applies to Donbas - while I have never been there, I’ve met people from there and some of them were pro-Ukrainian some of them were pro-Russian, I met more pro-Russian ones (but again, I agree that this is a hearsay).
As for the other annexed Ukrainian territories and the countries/regions you’ve mentioned - I have never spoken with people from those territories, so again I do not assert it was fine or not fine, as it depends on what people of those territories think - and I do now know that.
Everybody I know who hasn’t managed to escape and is of the draft age and isn’t a college student is trying to hide.
And yet they do.
https://uadraftmuseum.ch
Because Zelensky’s propaganda repeated by western media is saying that everybody wants to fight Russia and everybody volunteers, while the reality is completely different, and who could have thought - people want to live instead of dying for their politicians (which is what Zelensky with support from the west is doing). And speaking out this fact, that people want to live, and that it is not okay to kill them, makes people call me fascist here. To clarify - I am not saying there are no volunteers, I even have some distant relatives who have volunteered, but they are a minority, the regime needs to kidnap people from the streets in order to survive.
I have no need for that, it’s only logical that not everybody has been kidnapped yet, they do it when they need more people for the meat grinder.
And as I said - for now not everybody needs to fear being kidnapped at any time, as they are not touching some groups of people currently. But they already lowered the age of acceptable kidnapping from 27 to 25, and some even say that kidnapping 18 year olds is only a matter of time (I’ve read stories about how they have already kidnapped a few kids, and even girls, it’s just that for now they let them go when they discover their age/gender, but for how long? let me know if you want me to try to find those stories :) ). Some say that women should get the same treatment.
Yeah, but see… All the people in russian occupied territories weren’t given a choice. russia occupied and that’s that. Regardless of people’s wills. And they’re doing the same in Ukraine. Except Ukraine is fighting back. If they were to negotiate peace it would simply mean giving up on the people there, because russia would never give them back, getting more territory was the whole point of the attack. So if the people are pro russia sure, those people won’t mind. But if they’re pro Ukraine? What happens to those people? And what happens in a few years when russian forces will have regrouped and they’ll have enough ammo and weapons to attack again? Because history shows they’ll attack again…every few years they take more land. Should everyone from Ukraine just move somewhere else and leave the land for russia to avoid bloodshed? Then maybe Poland and Moldova should do the same, because russia will want that land too. Maybe we should all just become the russian federation. That way for sure no more blood will be spilled. And of course all of this is on Zelensky because he’s the one that attacked. It’s all because of him. If he were a good puppet like lukashenko none of this would’ve happened. That fucking Zelensky… Fuck him for standing up to russia and trying to steer the country towards the EU and NATO, right? It’s all his fault. Before him everyone was pro russia. He could stop putin if only he’d give him what he wants. It’s that simple. Right?
That’s a fair argument.
But comparing that (simply living under a different government, which is actually extremely similar to the old one) with killing people is not fair.
I don’t know, what happens?
They have a choice to do as they please - they can sell their real estate (if they have any, if they don’t then it is even less of a problem) and move to unoccupied Ukraine territories (although it would be a very weird choice, because there they would be trapped, and wouldn’t be able to go back, so this is a one way trip…), or they can continue living on the occupied territories like many have done.
This is a speculation of what will happen, and unfortunately I’ve lost my crystal ball so it’s not possible for me to confirm whether you are right or wrong.
As for regrouping of the forces… I believe that neither of us is a military expert (let me know if I am wrong), so in my opinion it is Ukraine that needs regrouping (even the western media seems to be predicting their fall now, but of course I can be wrong there), in your opinion it might be the other way around, it’s hard to debate on that.
Please point me to the message where I said that?
The causes for the war is a whole another dimension to discuss, that would include a “war” against Russian language in Ukraine (when it is the language spoken by half of the population, give or take, and that was considered being set as second official language), the glorification of Bandera (you can look up his deeds during WW2, Poles love that guy), and lots of other stuff, but as I said it’s a different topic to discuss.
Russia indeed is the one that attacked Ukraine and I’ve never said otherwise.
Indeed fucking Zelensky. Not for standing up to Russia though, but for murdering other people to achieve his political / ideological goals. If he wouldn’t kidnap people and treat them worse then dogs, I would support him (at least to some extent - as I said previously I believe that in case of Crimea and Donbas it was the will of the people to join Russia, but I don’t think it was the case with the other annexed territories), and possibly even donate. But in the current situation - supporting him is equivalent to supporting killing of my friends, family and every other Ukrainian still trapped there. How can I do that? Other people would support him as well. But for now, don’t you think that it is absolutely logical for Ukrainians who dare to want to live - to actually support Russia? It is in our interest for Russia to win, because this is the scenario where we get to live, and in the other scenario we die. This is why I (and many other people, it’s just that you won’t hear that in western media, because that is not the current narration. Surprisingly, you might actually start hearing more about that, because now even some of my very pro-Zelensky friends started to wake up as well. Unsurprisingly this happened because now it started to affect them as well, it was okay for them when it was other people’s problem) hate Zelensky - he makes it impossible for us to support our own fucking country, supporting the invader is the only logical choice if you throw emotions out of it.
In the last negotiations before Zelensky had forbidden negotiations with Russia, it was agreed that Russia doesn’t mind Ukraine joining EU.