The beauty of the fediverse is that the last panel can’t happen.
We control our own instances. There’s no world where admins wouldn’t defederate from any Facebook attempt to barge in.
Maybe a few larger instances sell out, but users hold the power here now. If an admin betrays our trust, we’ll just make a new instance.
Even more than defederating, it’s in the hands of users. If people were to flood in from somewhere with bad intentions, it would likely be from one or two servers. At that point, just block those servers/communities from your view and continue about your day
At that point, just block those servers/communities from your view and continue about your day
But what if those servers/instances are the ones which has quality communities in it and what if the users and owners of those communities refuse to migrate to new server/instance? Wouldn’t that be the same case of reddit where the user base is split and the new migrated server/instance needs building again?
DING DING DING. Here’s Facebook’s playbook:
- Create close sourced ActivityPub implementation to federate with mastodon/lemmy and gain users.
- Offer better experience than competition via exclusive features, reliability, more communities, etc.
- Once enough users have been obtained, completely defederate from fediverse.
Best thing we can hope for is a competitor to appear or something and then have a very split fediverse between instances, hence you cannot defederate without causing major harm
Reminds me a bit of how to deal with gangrene. Chop the leg at the ankle or the knee, drastic as it is, is better than lose the entire leg from the waist down, maybe some jewels included.
They could defederate servers that don’t do exactly what they want and servers that are defederated might capitulate. The last frame is very possible and we’ve already seen it start to happen with thedonald on shitjustworks.
Edit: that said, I know the Donald comes from Reddit so it’s not the best example. But it’s an example of the method by which the last panel could happen.
That’s not really what happened here. It was 1 guy who made a community. That 1 guy was banned and his community was deleted for breaking the rules (specifically rule 2, no bigotry). Just before he got banned, people on other instances were freaking out like we just had the entire population of /r/the_donald join up here when it was 1 troll who broke our rules.
people on other instances were freaking out like we just had the entire population of /r/the_donald join up here when it was 1 troll who broke our rules.
That same strategy can be used to police the fediverse. If policing is possible, then the last panel of the comic is possible.
ELI5 on thedonald please
In support of your statement, here’s the Fedipact, signed by so many servers and communities across the Fediverse to not let Meta (or any other corpo, in that matter) to barge into the federation:
Something like this could happen. Some instance admins of Fediverse instance admins met with Facebook. They are trying to include facebooks services to fediverse. I hope they wont do that. Otherwise this meme gets reality.
It’s probably fine unless the developers of lemmy_server themselves start to give companies integrations and backdoors.
Facebook could just do his own instance and poison other instances with it.
Poison them how?
Post crap into the federation and just simply if banned just host another server and repeat.
They will. Eventually. If Lemmy gets public eye big money always wins.
I heard the Mastodon admin refused to cooperate.
I think too but still something is brewing.
The Fosstodon instance admin, kev, had an excellent response: https://fosstodon.org/@kev/110592625692688836
funny meme about this: https://aldr.social/@christian/110593145004454332
Artist: https://webcomicname.com/
hey thanks and sorry for forgetting to give credit to the artist
oh
no
Original comic by @webcomic_name (Instagram) aka Alex Norris - a true legend!
This works on so many levels
It really does. My first thought was a lot of cities where it’s run down and depressed and the more hipster artsy types show up for the cheap property and make something interesting. Eventually the affluent catch wind and show up to take advantage of what was created and price the originals out.
Apologies from the crest of this eternal September.
Soon? This has pretty much already happened with lemmygrad
What happened? I just joined there
I don’t know the full story but a lot of Lemmy devs/early adapters were Marxist-Leninists who kind of got drowned out by the more liberal Reddit users. I was a (very) passive lurker for a while so I only know a little bit of the story, namely that Lemmy used to be a lot further left. Someone who has been more engaged back then would be more helpful than I.
“include this”, “include that”, bitch, I don’t want your propaganda in my place, gtfo
“Ok you can join but you have to ctrl-a delete all your javascript”
The circle of digital life. sigh
Dude… Like…
Duuuude…
I don’t know how to phrase this, but Reddit was getting filled with… Normal people? Nongeeks? The socially adept?
I’m sooo glad to be back with silly peeps. I missed that sense of critical self awareness haha. And I’ve been able to express some controversial opinions without getting locked and banned, which is mellowing as fuck.
I can say things like:
“I like Brains faggots more than any other brand” and “Retard the accelerator” without my comment being deleted and/or Reddit-banned for hate-speech.
I once got suspended from Reddit for saying: “The Scots weren’t innocent during the British Empire. They were used for a lot of rape & murder”.
It was considered racist. Until I appealed with 2 academic history papers that showed the Scottish Highlanders were considered a “martial race” and were used extensively in colonial campaigns during the British Empire. I really don’t want to have to fucking educate dumb-as-brick Yank admins who don’t know history or language beyond their shores.
I was finally site-suspended and can’t create new users because a mod accused me of evading a sub ban. I didn’t. Another mod just unbanned me cos the reason I got banned originally was idiotic. The mod didn’t care. Re-banned me so my 15yo account got permanently suspended by the admins.
I’m done with that fucking site.
The first part of your post is really confusing. Why would you talk like you’re using English from 1930s? Is English your second language?
No. I’m 40yrs old and I don’t keep up with the modern-day lingo. 😂
Also I’m British so I speak British English. “Fags” are cigarettes and “faggots” are a type of food.
Kind of hard for moderators to know that maybe.
I would just not use those words to not be misunderstood. :)
Seems you were intentionally trying to seek attention by saying shit people actually don’t want to hear and claiming it’s fine based off a technicality. Your so edgy bro. Don’t call other people stupid just because they see beyond your attempt to be clever.
Did you just call somebody’s language you inherit a technicality? I swear to god you yanks are something else with your lack of education and common sense. I guess the only way to afford thousand of ICBMs is to defund the school. Bless you
Wait until you hear about faggots and peas
The fanny pack never did take off in the U.K…
Don’t call other people stupid just because they see beyond your attempt to be clever.
You think I’m trying to be clever by speaking my own language?
You think I speak my own language to seem “edgy”?
The word “faggot” on reddit gets site-wide deleted which means even saying it in the UK subs where people will know the meaning it would get deleted. Yes it’s happened and that’s fucking moronic.
It’d be like banning Spaniards from their own subs for saying "Tiene negro gato ".
We speak the same fucking language. Your metafore of Spanish and negro is irrelevant. You guys seriously run around, on what is an AMERICAN platform and think that the word of choice for a cigarette, a smoke, a stogey, is “faggot”? Not fag, but faggot? That is the word you want to use? Even though you have many other choices of words, that is it? And you are surprised?
I remember elementary school when we laughed about fag meaning a cigarette. Then I turned 8.
No but like seriously, I guess maybe I am missing some perspective. You guys just like use it in commonplace? Like, “Hey Benedict, I’m gonna go suck on this faggot over here” or “Hey Charles, it’s time for my fag break”
That’s the exact kind of nonsense I can’t stand. People are SO scared of the prospect of a counter opinion we lose the ability to actually have discussions.
I got a 7 day site wide ban for saying “you can still kill yourself” in a discussion on Canada new assisted sucide policies. It wasn’t a threat, it wasn’t bullying, it was a relevant point of discussion.
That’s the thing. A faceless corporation doesn’t have any accountability.
If you’ve seen Steve Huffman’s face you may prefer the faceless corporation to having a faced one.
There are many of us with similar stories. No genuine means of appeal, and the most over-zealous and ridiculous interpretation of the rules leading to a site-wide, permanent ban.
I got banned for making a joke on a comedy sub. Literally that. Someone made a comment that they and their wife had been the only people in the theater for the premiere of Bert Kreischer’s ‘The Machine’, and that they had fun and enjoyed it.
I replied that we all knew that was a lie, that nobody had any fun and that his entire relationship was a farce: just grinding out the next 40 years pretending to enjoy mediocre comedies that nobody else bothered to show up for.
Something to that effect anyway. Well, I guess not sharing the same sense of humour was grounds enough to delete 10 years worth of tech reviews, Linux how-to guides and assorted other long-form bullshit. I’m much more careful about where I host my content these days.
I was permanently banned/ suspended for posting a link to Google Streetview of a public layby.
Hows that for random and arbitrary!
Whats a “layby”?
I looked up the official definition, but I was wondering if you’re using that word in an urban definition sort of way?
No, I meant the literal definition - an area at the side of a road where vehicles may pull off the road and stop.
Wow, okay. Such a strange reason for getting banned.
I believe reddit was simply filled with all kinds of people. There is an array of subs to choose from with different interests and activity levels. I find it silly that people on reddit consider themselves “non-normal” and “geeky”. I don’t think you’re that special.
This is true with all forms of social media. I remember when Twitter was starting out, and one of the main complaints was “Everyone was sharing pictures of what they ate for lunch”, and my thought was “Don’t follow those people”. Reddit has a lot of crappy areas that won’t be missed. There are a lot of dumb admins that only use the site to have a power trip. But beyond that, there was a lot of GOOD admins, and GOOD subreddits that were filled with interesting discussions and nice cultures.
This is why I am excited about the Fediverse. There will be servers run by meglomaniacs and trolls. There will be servers and communities filled with racist, misogynistic assholes. But you don’t have to go to those. They can be blocked at the community and server levels.
I don’t think it will be a problem as we get more and more people here. Having a bigger user base will allow for a better experience for everyone in that more exposure will make it easier for more tools to be developed. More people means more communities, and finding ones that cover more niche topics, which will make the platform more useful.
What’s your point of reference? If you’re talking about how Reddit was 2 years ago, sure, but if you’re talking like pre-2016 I don’t agree.
Reddit is less pedantic, less skeptical, and more conformist then it use to be.
I find it silly that people on reddit consider themselves “non-normal” and “geeky”. I don’t think you’re that special.
I completely disagree 🤣 I absolutely am that special 🥰
I’ve been on Reddit for the past 6 years, to answer the question about the point of reference.
In my opinion, Reddit is suffering from the same problem as the internet in general: the more quantity you have, the less quality overall. The internet kept getting larger and we couldn’t index every website anymore so only an ever-diminishing portion that makes it to the surface; in Reddit, this is equivalent to how the sorting algorithms work (best, rising, etc). More people means more fun, but inevitably it means the general subreddits will slowly decay into normalcy. Whatever human biases and behavioural patterns we have will eventually decide what makes it to the top and how much each new opinion or idea is consumed. We’re over-populated, and somehow I feel like a federated alternative to Reddit may solve that idea to some extent. At the same time, I’m curious about the new problems that will arise from with system. There are so many available services to choose from, will this lead to a healthier internet or will we get stuck in bubbles of our own creation? At this rate, we’ll find out soon enough.
I’ve been on Reddit for the past 6 years, to answer the question about the point of reference.
(2023 - 6) > 2016
When you and I talk about Reddit we’re talking about different things.
When they first started joining Reddit, I thought of them as FaceBookers fleeing their parents and grandparents.
That said, I am part of this new wave here. I have tried 3 separate times over the last few years to join the Fediverse but always ended up on instances that lacked content that was relevant to me. It almost went the same way this time when I joined kbin.social but I decided to try lemmy.world also and found a lot more communities that interested me here.
Incidentally, as I understand it kbin.social should have been fine for me but was temporarily suppressing the feeds from other instances to help deal with the new wave.
When they first started joining Reddit, I thought of them as FaceBookers fleeing their parents and grandparents
The real first wave were Digg refugees, but there’s some truth to that. Millennials made heavy use of Facebook but largely abandoned the platform when their parents showed up. The only people I know who are still using Facebook are my boomer-aged parents and their friends.
Me, who only made an account because I was banned from Reddit and has no idea how Fediverse stuff works: whistles nervously
No offense, but how do you manage to get banned from Reddit? A certain sub, sure, but the entire website?
It’s pretty easy, i got banned from a couple of subs for being left-wing (apparently calling out brigading from far-right subs was against the rules).
But i got a sitewide ban because I used an alt to ban evade (can’t remember the exact post, but somebody was asking for advise wrt to COVID in a legal sub (I was originally banned for for encouraging a user to get funny but illegal payback on their neighbors), and it felt urgent enough that I was fine getting banned.).
Once you get a siteban, trolls will flag report all your posts even on subs your not banned from, or at least whenever I brought up that r/UKpolitics is modded by a literal fascist, I’d get a new site ban for “ban evasion”, to the point where pretty much any encounter with a far right troll or YIMBY would get me a ban.
The admins also seem to work very closely with certain moderators, as was shown when they leaked a trans employees information to TERFisland subs.
So while powermods can’t get you a sitewide ban, some have the ear of the admins who can keep an eye on you until you break a sitewide rule.
And on a site which has alt-right subs, it’s hard to at the very least walk right up to the line on the rules wrt treating all commenters like humans.
I got banned once for telling an absolute cunt that she was one in “am I the asshole.”
wtf thats literally the point of the sub
You better to stop telling your federal offenses on lemmy lol
Boooo I disagree tell more
Said that I would murder andrew tate is given the opportunity and apparently that counts as a credible threat of violence
Would that even count as a crime in the first place? Interesting either way, didn’t expect that would trigger a ban on the website.
Again, can totally see that happening on a sub, but giving the amount of vile that has been given a free platform on the site I didn’t think they’d bother.
That is very violent phrasing and you only deem it ok because it’s geared toward the “right kind of people”
Yes.
I’m fine with that
They ban people very selectively and its always ideologically motivated. There was a period of time where you would get a 3-day ban for just upvoting the wrong posts. So you could lurk and still get banned for some reason. That happened to me multiple times before I decided to delete my account.
you have my attention, which wrong posts did you upvote?
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
we’re in the same boat haha
i guess most of us dont know a lot about the whole fediverse stuff. but the longer you are here, the more you will learn about it. so far, it’s pretty interesting!
Banned from Reddit? What’d you do, tell Spez to go fuck himself?
It’s often enough to say a bad word about russians and you get permabanned.
Can’t say I’ve ever experienced that, and there’s whole, major subreddits basically dedicated to doing just that…
I told him to fuck himself plenty and never even got aknowlaged
Meanwhile I fled to Lemmy from Reddit because I need a place to show art without being under some platform whose vision and actions I don’t support
deleted by creator
Been feeling like this nearly every time I went to Reddit for years now.
There will be always rotten apples around, and there is nothing we can do about it.
Beehaw did it already :)
Not that I blame them.
Beehaw’s degeneration is actually temporary. They said they would like to refederate with major instances when there’s better mod tools available. The problem is they’re only 4 admins and don’t really have the capability to moderate that well right now.
yeah, that’s what i’ve read. They’re protecting their people, and that’s an admirable thing. Wonder where cross instances admin tools are on the roadmap.
In any case our equivalent federated communities are coming up to strength now and we’re starting to get decent levels of interactions without them.
What happened with Beehaw?
They want a safe space for their particular values, so defederated with every instance which doesn’t.
I’ve read every scrap of documentation on their website, and still don’t have a good sense what exactly their “values” are. In one sentence they sound more woke than Reddit, in the next sentence they sound like they’re pushing back on overwrought codes of conduct.
Honestly, Beehaw just comes across as one quirky individual’s vanity project, created out of spite after he got modded on another board, and it somehow stumbled into drawing a crowd.
They said fuck you to everyone and isolated themselves
Beehaw is still federated with most servers, they’re not isolated. There are a few that are defederated from for differences like allowing hate speech, but the two big ones were to ease up the moderation demands as they had open sign ups without captcha from what I recall. They were the source of a lot of spam and making moderation a headache. The admins plan to revisit the issue if better mod tools are developed, it’s still a young platform and better tools could make it easier to moderate without cutting off whole servers.
If it’s a moderation thing, how is lemmy.world dealing with it? LW has a significantly larger user base.
As others have mentioned their mod team is pretty small. In addition their motivation is to cultivate a safe space which is hard to do when other more permissive instances are federated with them.
'Tis the reason why they should not consider refederating. Having their own sets of accounts and some strict and underwhelmed modding is sufficient for their purpose of cultivating their safe space. Maybe others won’t agree with their methods, but their purpose demands these methods in their space
There’s a way to fix that…
they’re only 4 admins and don’t really have the capability to moderate that well right now
We know, they continually remind us.
In your entire comment history, this is actually the least hostile comment you’ve ever made. Amazing
Everyone makes mistakes. I’m sure he intended it to be more hostile. Maybe next time. :)
Username is assbutt, I expect nothing but shit-talking from them.
Yes, that is good communication. Most people only look at the latest thing. By repeating themselves, the message is the latest thing multiple times, meaning more people see it. Repetition is not a bad thing in mass communications. They’re doing a good job
I don’t get why they don’t appoint a ton of community moderators. Lemmy allows admins to appoint community mods, and parent mods can create child mods that they control.
Is there some sort of specific feature they need that is currently missing? If so, what?
Or do the admins just not want to delegate / relinquish power to others in the community?
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Nothing of value was lost
I mean, 1/3 of all of my google searches for a give topic come from a reddit post. There were as useful as stack exchange for most technical questions.
The management and problems are nothing but the millions of curated answered questions are pretty damn useful.
Beehaw did the opposite. If you are from reddit, you are not the pink people. You are the grey ones. Beehaw said no before the fourth panel happened.
Hey! There’s no way for an individual to defederate without running their own instance. I think my first comment was asking how I could remove beehaw
There are multiple types of people coming from Reddit. I’m here looking for more critical discussion. Beehaw gives me cult vibes.
And I think you are the kind of person they defederated from so everything works for everyone.
