I absolutely hate “smart” TVs! You can’t even buy a quality “dumb” panel anymore. I can’t convince the rest of my family and friends that the only things those smarts bring are built-in obsolescence, ads, and privacy issues.
I make it a point to NEVER connect my new 2022 LG C2 to the Internet, as any possible improvements from firmware updates will be overshadowed by garbage like ads in the UI, removal of existing features (warning: reddit link), privacy violations, possible attack vectors, non-existent security, and constant data breaches of the manufacturers that threaten to expose every bit of personal data that they suck up. Not to mention increased sluggishness after tons of unwanted “improvements” are stuffed into it over the years, as the chipset ages and can no longer cope.
I’d much rather spend a tenth of the price of my TV on a streaming box (Roku, Shield TV, etc.) and replace those after similar things happen to them in a few years. For example, the display of my OG 32-inch Sony Google TV from 2010 ($500) still works fine, but the OS has long been abandoned by both Sony and Google, and since 2015-16 even the basic things like YouTube and Chrome apps don’t work anymore. Thank goodness I can set the HDMI port as default start-up, so I don’t ever need to see the TV’s native UI, and a new Roku Streaming Stick ($45) does just fine on this 720p panel. Plus, I’m not locked into the Roku ecosystem. If they begin (continue?) enshitifying their products, there are tons of other options available at similar price.
Most people don’t replace their TVs every couple of years. Hell, my decade old 60-inch Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD TV that I bought for $2200 back in 2011 still works fine, and I only had to replace the streamer that’s been driving it twice during all this time. Sony Google TV Box -> Nvidia Shield TV 2015 -> Nvidia Shield TV 2019. I plan to keep it in my basement until it dies completely before replacing it. The Shield TV goes to the LG C2 so that I never have to see LG’s craptastic UI.
Sorry, just felt the need to vent. Would be very interested in reading community’s opinions on this topic.
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I finally looked in the settings and found I can set my roku tv to not start in the smart menu and it is immediately better for me.
I’m looking to buy a new TV soon ish and I’m really afraid of ending up with something with a ton of pre installed bloatware, simply because that’s the industry standard nowadays. If anyone has any tips for “dumb” TVs in the ~€600/$650 price range I’d love to hear them. I have a chromecast for streaming and it works fine, so I’m really just looking to buy a large screen without bloatware, no Internet connection required, etc. That’s what my current ~10 year old TV does and tbh I just want the same thing but better picture quality.
I prefer Roku because it’s pretty trivial to block their ads and tracking, and I can add and remove channels and features pretty easily. Now if they started forcing me to have certain channels that would change. Plus you can use it as a dumb TV without connecting it to the Internet, and even set it to use an HDMI in by default so you never see the OS.
set it to use an HDMI in by default so you never see the OS
How long do you figure we have before manufacturers remove this functionality?
There’s lots of places like sports bars that send TV signals from a central location and need the TVs to stay on the selected input, so I don’t think we’ll see it go away entirely. It may move to displays that cater specifically to that use case, however.
I too am in the market for a new tv. I’ve had my 60 inch plasma tv from Samsung for going on 12 years. I dropped a pretty penny on it from Best Buy at the time and haven’t had any problems with it at all for over a decade!
Only in the last year or so I’ve started having issues with turning it on if it was just turned off. Like it’s plasma so I’ve always been super careful of burn in of images. So I press pause on whatever I’m watching on the Roku streamer connected by HDMI. Then I turn off the tv itself. If say I’m running to the bathroom, when I get back and attempt to turn on the tv it’ll make the red power light blink randomly several times over and over… but it won’t initiate the start up of the screen…
I’ve tried lots of things… unplugged the tv and waited about 10-15 seconds and plugged it back in then pressed the power on the remote and it’ll usually come back on with the volume all the way back to “1” which stinks… but it still “works”…
I’m willing to pay a good amount for a plasma adjacent/similar tv just because of the luck I’ve had with this current tv. It makes more sense to me to invest in a really great tv now, as opposed to replacing several less great tv’s when they inevitably break down…
I’ve been looking around, and obviously they’ve stopped producing Plasma tvs now… so I’m still searching for a plasma like tv that I want…
What you want to look for is a “digital signage display” or “commercial display” like this one. These are basically just large monitors. They generally have really good display quality because they’re intended to make products look good, and near-bulletproof electronics because they’re intended to be on all day. Because of this and not being subsidized by bloatware they tend to cost more than smart TVs of the same size.
That’s a great tip thank you!
I commented above but this part may help:
Thinking more about it using eBay’s boolean search options may have helped drill down to good choices.
I have some practical annoyances, most surrounding multiple remotes and the clunkiness of it. I have two TVs in my house: a Samsung smart TV from 2019 and a Hisense Google TV I purchased earlier this year. The Google interface is not the most responsive, but it packs in all of the stuff I would want. Android is the most supported platform for apps. Samsung’s OS has good app support, but open source projects and more niche apps aren’t there. I think there is a nebula app now, but for a while there wasn’t, for instance. So, I bought one of the Chromecast with Google TV sticks to bridge the gap. It works well most of the time, but unlike the Hisense, it doesn’t support airplay. So if someone airplays, you get kicked back to the native OS and have to use the native remote. It’s possible to configure the Chromecast to use the native remote, except the home button doesn’t map, it is the home menu for the native OS. So it’s just kinda clunky. I do think newer Google tvs with airplay built in (varies by brand) are going in the right direction here. If you’re concerned about privacy, they’re still gonna be a nightmare though.
multiple remotes
I have a Logitech Harmony Ultimate remote with Hub. It was the best thing ever for me, because in my living room setup I have the TV, A/V receiver, Nvidia Shield TV for streaming, and an Xbox Series X for my kids and occasional BR/DVD movies. With programmable activity buttons, a single tap on the remote turns on the appropriate devices, switches them to the correct inputs, and provides appropriate controls. Tap another activity, and it turns on devices that are required, turns off the ones not in use, and switches controls to the proper device.
Unfortunately Logitech discontinued the Harmony line. It’s only a matter of time before they take down the servers that host device databases and allow you to reprogram the remotes. I’ve been looking into replacements, but there aren’t many that have feature parity with Harmony.
Seems the best way is with IR blasters and learning remotes. There is software for PCs/Macs that will let you capture the IR remote functions, then you can assign that to a “smart/learning” remote to relay those signals. Not nearly as easy as the Logitech setup, and I’m dreading the day the Harmony remotes stop working.
I get the concern with bloatwear but it’s never been a concern for me with a TV. I simply use Roku and it’s functioned extremely well. I also don’t connect my TV to the internet for the most part. It’s literally as simple as that. It’s not like my TV is running out of storage.
Look at commercial TVs, those used by businesses. Some even come with a RPi slot.
Same here. I use my TV as a glorified monitor with a ton of HDMI ports. All smart features are basically non-existant to me. I disable all picture “quality improvement” shit (that typically introduces latency). Everything else is then handled by the attached smart devices that I can exchange or upgrade however I want.
When I look for a new TV, I actually still prefer going to the store, because the one most important aspect for me is input latency. I absolutely hate hitting a button on the remote and then having a delay of a second or so until it actually reacts to it. So this is something I need to try in person: if I hit a button, how fast do I get feedback? If it’s not instant, the TV is out of the question.
I am using a Sony TV that is not connected to the Internet and i stream stuff using a PS4. TV does not complain. Does anyone know if PlayStation is analyzing the data the same way Samsung does for example? So far there is no adds in PlayStation.
If they can, they probably are.
As a lot of people here, I did the same, bought the smart TV, it needed internet for firmware upgrade, and once it had started and did not ask for my inputs or whatever, I selected the HDMI1 as startup, plugged a Chromecast. Then went into the TV menu to forget the network settings on the TV. It’s just a monitor used to cast Netflix, Disney, Plex, Prime, etc.
How is plugging in a Chromecast any different than using the same software built into a Google TV?
I don’t know for a Google TV, but others brands have microphone and ads in their builtin …
Just wanted to say same. I have used a Linux box as my Media Center and Home Server since 2008. Also have a chomecast dongle so I can steam from Android and Android apps. Not sure what else one needs.
Seems to me what one wants wants really is mostly a browser and ability to stream stuff from apps on your phone. Since the Linux box is a Media Center and Server it also has a lot of features a Smart TV would not have. Just do not see the value of a Smart TV.
I just saw a link to this
https://github.com/MayaPosch/NymphCast
Perhaps your l8nux can cast as well?
Back in 2019 I wanted a nice LED screen with high resistance to screen burn but the only economic option was a Samsung Smart TV.
I actually ended up getting it, ordering a custom mount for the ARM Chip, and using an input method on the chip that makes it run Java natively so that I could make the Smart TV drop it’s firmware onto a USB and from there I could modify it, since it was just running a version of Linux.
So that’s the story of how I un-smarted my TV. Get fucked, Samsung.
What a fucking ridiculous workaround that’s completely unavailable to the regular consumer…fuck Samsung (and the industry in general) for this approach.
Well, now that the community has had a few years to reverse engineer it I assume there are a lot of better and easier ways to replace the firmware with an open source quick fix. So, it’s not like my way is the only way. It was just necessary at the time. In fact, the community worked very fast to find a way to hack these “System on a Chip” architectures since the ARM chips were first released. They’re used in Macs, phones, TVs etc and have a very high power efficiency, but it is a very clear design choice to make them extremely difficult for the user to access and customize.
Unless it’s “load this file on a USB stick and plug in in your TV”-easy, it’s still out if reach to most consumers.
But my point is, it shouldn’t be necessary to do these things in the first place. Fucking drop the “smart” element from them completely, they always suck ass anyway and are laggy as hell to navigate.
I’m still rocking the original Shield TV that I got in 2017. It’s still as new. They added ads to the UI a while back now, but I just installed a custom launcher. Works great.
One of the best devices I’ve ever bought. I got it used for 100 bucks in 2018. I Don’t even play games on it anymore, but it’s still the best device for streaming in the house.
Which launcher did you install?
Pretty sure it’s Wolf Launcher - Install guide here at troypoint
So buying a smart TV and connecting it with streaming box/stick for accessing streaming services does seem to be the best solution.
I run a DNS server on a raspberry pi and block only those domains where LG gets ads and promoted content from. I can then have a clean and responsive interface while services like Netflix still work.
I recommend you to also make sure to configure your router so no other device but your pihole can make DNS requests. some devices bypass your DHCP settings and use custom DNS servers.
This was already done. The only device able to make outbound DNS connections is the raspberry pi. For IPv4 and IPv6.
I got a display signage TV. Totally dumb. The only app it has is YouTube and that’s optional. I don’t even have the internet hooked up to it. Works fine for gaming and occasionally streaming via other devices.
Where do you even get something like that?
I got mine through Amazon. Samsung makes the cheapest ones I’ve found. Just search for something like “samsung commercial TV”. They’re generally a little more expensive than your ad/data harvesting-supported TVs but if you value your privacy and longevity of your devices, it’s worth it.
Also, these industrial monitors have better heat sinking from the LED backlight, which increases power efficiency and service life – the two metrics their intended buyers care most about.
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I’m really happy that I got to skip the whole smart TV stuff by being a projector guy. They are still dumb as rocks for the most part.
My HTPC is an Odroid, so all is well in that department as well.
How well does this work? Like is glare / not being able to see an issue? How much of the wall color shows through, or do you have to have a special screen?
How well does this work?
Essentially you trade some contrast and color for a much bigger screen size. If you can live with that they are incredible.
Like is glare / not being able to see an issue?
Generally, you want to use a projector in a light controlled room. If you cannot block out most sunlight/ambient light, it might not be feasible in that room.
As you approach more expensive projectors (like 3000/5000$+) you can get a sufficient picture in a bright room but the contrast will be severely lacking - good enough to watch some soccer but not something you want to watch your new 4k blu-ray on. The darkest possible black in a projector picture will always be the remaining ambient light in your room. The darker you can get your light levels, the better.
How much of the wall color shows through, or do you have to have a special screen?
While you can project directly onto the wall I would recommend a projector screen, even a cheap one will do. I project onto a regular 200$ white projector screen and can’t complain even after years of usage. Since light produced by the projector bounces of your walls, it’s recommended to black out the surroundings of your screen, even painting the wall behind the screen black/gray will immensely increase the contrast of your image.
My worst AV mistake was replacing an old CRT with a Samsung “smart” TV.
That thing lost so many features through OTA updates that could not be disabled, to the extent where the boot-up screen that showed all the features just getting emptier as the years went by. I believe now it just shows a TV guide icon and a Miracast icon lol… ended up just switching off the WiFi on it.
I only buy projectors now. Still have one dumb LG tv still kicking though - parents were going to throw out, but I managed to fix a minor issue it had with the LCD panel
do you have any screen and/or projector recommendations? i will be moving soon and will more than likely end up selling my smart TV. was thinking to buy another TV but reading your comment has me more inclined to go to the projector side.
In general, https://www.projectorcentral.com/ always has solid up to date recommendations for different price brackets.
Depending on where you can place it, you might want a short throw or ultra short throw projector. Be careful with the ultra short throw projectors (“Laser TV”). Many of them are starting to introduce smart TV features since they are becoming more mainstream. Try to stick with known projector companies like Optoma, BenQ, Sony, Epson and JVC.
As for the screen, don’t worry to much about it. Get a white screen without any gain to avoid hot spots or dim pictures. Make sure to max out the possible size for the location, you will regret it later if you don’t. If you can, get a screen with a solid aluminium/steel frame and mount it on a wall. Do not bother with cheap pull down screens, they will start to show creases and folds within the first years.
cheers, dude! very solid response and you painted a great picture of what i need overall, i appreciate it. i haven’t heard of Optoma or BenQ actually! and i’m unsure of what a short/ultra short throw is but will research that. thanks again man, will definitely get on the prowl and start making it happen!
