Bullshit. I’ve been to China and there’s no fucking way I’d go back with pooh bear in charge. It’s dangerous for westerners now. No joke.
Westerners? I’m foreign-born Chinese, and you couldn’t pay me to enter China. My anti-ccp sentiments combined with their sense of ownership of all Chinese people regardless of birth nation means I’m probably on a low priority list somewhere.
You look at them funny and they’ll confiscate your passport and leave you stranded behind the border. That’s if they’re in a good mood.
McCarthyism’s back yo! Or, rather, it never really left.
McCarthyism has changed because now the “communists” look different and talk different and aren’t white.
Woke is the new Red I guess?
This article is prime “SelfAwareWolves” material…
Countering this in international media by offering more balanced views for a global audience is near impossible as censorship is rife. There almost seems to be a global compact to control the narrative, a propaganda war powered by today’s digital technology.
China: you can’t talk bad about us!!!
International sentiment generally negative about country actively committing genocide.
More at 11.
Jokes aside - yeah? Of course there’s propaganda about China. I would wager its hard to find a big international power that doesn’t have some level of propaganda being spread about it by the other big international powers. But between the propaganda you still find a bunch of real reasons to have negative views toward China’s leadership and actions.
- Uyghur genocide (ongoing)
- authoritarian rule with huge censorship of outside media I really don’t need to go on
Removed by mod
Lemmy.ml user
Does…that make all those things okay then?
you’re free to argue the points you have been in the rest of the thread, but genocide denialism is a no-go.
Got to wonder if you’d be this lenient with someone denying the holocaust, too?
Barely even a slap on the wrist (“no-go”? Seriously?), not even removed the blatant genocide denial.
So is it that you don’t think any genocide denial is really that big a deal and not even worth removing, or is just the deniers of the genocide being perpetrated by the state you ignorantly support, that you’re happy to turn a blind eye to and continue platforming?
At least have some fucking integrity and don’t pretend to care when you clearly don’t, but this reaction? Is genuinely pathetic.
Fuck, I really wish you tankie bootlickers would stop falsely claiming communism and defending genocide and other atrocities committed in its name by authoritarian dictators (also falsely claiming it, to gain the support of wilfully ignorant enablers like yourself), you’re really are fucking it up for those of us who actually want to be free.
Barely even a slap on the wrist (“no-go”? Seriously?), not even removed the blatant genocide denial.
you’re posting from kbin–the comment isn’t removed for you because you aren’t on our site and kbin is dogshit for propagating removals.
Fair enough, my bad on that, but you’re still allowing them a platform when they’re clearly spreading pro genocide-committing CCP propaganda.
If this was an article whining that Anti-American Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Chinese Media, and op was in the comments defending the war in Afghanistan, or immigrant children in cages and women forcibly sterilised, I don’t doubt it would have been removed in a flash, and rightfully so. China and America are both oppressive and destructive capitalist superpowers smearing each other to keep us distracted from the handful in each country hoarding all of the resources. The existence of competing propaganda really isn’t news.
Bottom line is by not banning op or at least removing this post you’re still enabling and even showing support to a literal genocide denier, they’re not even trying to hide it. You can’t tout yourselves as a platform for socialism and equality while allowing people like OP the space to promote the exact opposite.
If this was an article whining that Anti-American Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Chinese Media, and op was in the comments defending the war in Afghanistan, or immigrant children in cages and women forcibly sterilised, I don’t doubt it would have been removed in a flash, and rightfully so.
then you’re assuming incorrectly–we give people some latitude to have dumb, incorrect takes that people disagree with or aren’t popular here, and having one of those takes is not unto itself a bannable offense. this is especially and frequently true if it receives a lot of pushback because it provides a record of where the community stands and what the community finds acceptable, which is socially useful information for observers. this is outlined quite extensively in our moderator philosophy and has been pretty much since we took off. in any case, the idea that everything anyone posts here is tacitly endorsed by having been posted and not removed is a goofy standard for any social media website.
X for doubt (especially since I’ve seen what kind of content does gets instantly removed/banned around here, and this is definitely not op’s first “mistake”) E: though if you are being serious about allowing such content, it only makes your stance worse - I thought this instance was meant to be a safe space, but I guess the people impacted by these violent and oppressive acts don’t deserve protection if it goes against the, what, equal opportunity genocide denier platform? As a grandchild of holocaust survivors, this is a huge blaring warning alarm telling me to stay away (which I will, don’t worry).
Either way, all you’ve shown here is that you find CCP propaganda acceptable to the point of defending its existence in your space, and while you might not be comfortable admitting it, that’s you picking a side.
Thanks for confirming.
I use Kbin and I see it as “removed by moderator.”
hmm, odd. typically the issue here is how federation from lemmy works with kbin (and vice versa).
Can we add bellicose relations with a lot of their neighbors over the expansionist goals they’re pushing?
It’s almost like if they want people to not hate their country they should stop being a corrupt authoritarian hellhole
Oh so like India and America, corrupt democratic hellholes?
Yes, exactly. Most people don’t want their governments to copy imperialistic authoritarian capitalist shitholes like China, the USA, or Russia.
The American government being awful doesn’t mean that everybody else should copy them and be as awful as they can.
What reference do you have then, though? You’ve basically eliminated every country of reasonable size: India, China, America obviously, but also Pakistan, Indonesia, Brazil, Russia, Mexico and Nigeria, Bangladesh are in similar states.
Yeah and? I don’t want to live in an oppressive shithole, doesn’t matter to me if they became oppressive because they were copying China, the USA, Nigeria, the UK or whatever - they’d still be oppressive!
I honestly didn’t think that saying “I don’t like authoritarian capitalism” would be such a controversial statement…
You’ve expressed disapproval without giving a solution. How would you ask the US or China to change and why do you think that would work?
I’ve legitimately got no idea how they can fix their countries (or if they can even be fixed) as I’m more focused on my own country. I do not want my country to copy either the USA or China, and I resent the close relationship my government maintains with both of those oppressive states.
The USA pressured our government into performing illegal searches/arrests to favour their corporations, and the CCP has repeatedly been caught infiltrating our parliament. Those big authoritarian countries just bully smaller states to get what they want, and we need to stop pretending that it’s morally justified and normal. It’s not okay.
Hi, fellow Canadian!
To some degree there’s a need to pick a side, because the alternative is to get stomped on by both (like what’s happening now).
to be clear: the “they” here is the chinese government rather than the chinese people, correct? your comment is a little ambiguous
It would be off the charts in Chinese media too if they had things like free press and didn’t arrest their people for posting things critical of the Chinese government.
Better tell all the people critical of the Chinese government on weibo that they’re in jail lol
Yeah, like Naomi Wu, famous in the maker community, who tried her best to provide a nuanced view of China before pissing off the wrong group of people and going radio silent for good.
And the fact that she was able to operate for years without issue, despite being critical of the regime for most of that period?
Oh. Right. We don’t talk about that part. Her existence both contradicts and supports your point.
Thanks for displaying your ignorance. You obviously don’t know her story, because she’s never been openly critical of China. Rather, she’s always tried to be an ambassador for China within her community. Unfortunately, some of her actions pissed off the wrong people.
https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-the-silence-that-speaks-volumes
Have you watched her content lol
Yes? She dresses sexy, but that doesn’t change anything I’ve said
And the fact that she was able to operate for years without issue
I used to watch ADVChina, which was a youtube series by an American and a South African who married Chinese women and decided to live in China with their families. For years they rode motorbikes around China, filming “day in the life” type content and occasionally saying something mildly critical.
Eventually the CCP decided they didn’t like them and they had to flee the country. The way they told it they had to lie their way through the border to HK to get out because the government put an exit ban on them. Now they live in California post angry anti-CCP rants.
Point being, the fact that Wu or the ADVChina guys were able to operate in China for a little while isn’t proof that the CCP tolerates independent media. It is proof that the CCP can be slow sometimes to shut down people who grow a foreign audience organically using information channels the CCP doesn’t yet fully understand.
You do realize that the CCP isn’t some top-down monolith… Right? If it takes years to crack down on independent journalists, that sounds more like “freedom until you say overstep some line.”
Which, sure, isn’t entirely free, but it’s not even close to as bad as what people suggest.
That’s right. Because not every single person is in jail, no problem exists. /s
How about this: even putting one person in jail because of political opinion is an oppressive, undemocratic action.
Julian Assange would like a word…
Better tell that to literally every government on the planet, then.
Jailing dissidents is government oppression, but it’s a type of government oppression that happens in every major government, democratic or not. Welcome to the real world.
This post was about China, not other countries. What China is doing is an atrocity and your whataboutism doesn’t change that.
China is the one county that could just tell Russia to get out of Ukraine. Same with North Korea. Just look at who they hang out with and you know quite a lot.
Why would they? The Global South is completely unaligned with the West on the Russia-Ukraine issue. It’s an issue between Russia and the West, not a global issue.
Of course they would not. They have chosen to be aligned with Russia. This whole thing is a Russia / China thing.
The entire Global South is aligned on this issue.
I guess they don’t matter to you because they’re poor.
Most of the global south is aligned in staying out of it as much as possible. Their self interest is to play nice to all sides and play all sides.
It is not the entire global south. I think Australia and Taiwan would both feel differently. Very convenient of you to forget that. From the original UN vote it showed that the Russian invasion was widely condemned through out the world including global south with some notable exceptions too.
Do you even know what the term Global South refers to? Given that you refer to Australia as being part of the Global South, I’m going to assume not.
Don’t talk about things you don’t understand.
And you would not be correct.
Many countries included in the Global South are in the northern hemisphere, such as India, China and all of those in the northern half of Africa. Australia and New Zealand, both in the southern hemisphere, are not in the Global South
Time Magazine
It was generally agreed that the Global North would include the United States, Canada, England, nations of the European Union, as well as Singapore, Japan, South Korea, and even some countries in the southern hemisphere: Australia, and New Zealand. The Global South, on the other hand, would include formerly colonized countries in Africa and Latin America, as well as the Middle East, Brazil, India, and parts of Asia.
Gendered Lives: Global Issues
Do you just enjoy being wrong?
It’s a human rights issue. People like you and me are dying.
Why should the Global South care? People are dying there, too. We have a spoiled Western perspective.
For the same reason that the West should care about people being murdered around the world: it’s a human rights violation.
Just gonna drop an article about Naomi Wu, famous maker, as a counterpoint to all those who keep claiming free speech exists in China.
https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-the-silence-that-speaks-volumes
Thanks for the self-report. thediplomat filtered.
How does one filter submitted external links in Lemmy? Honest question.
It’s an option in Sync for lemmy.
Ah. Thank you. I’m using the web interface.
deleted by creator
The government of the United States is also highly untrustworthy, but plenty of other nation’s governments engage and cooperate with the US. This isn’t whataboutism, it’s evidence that there must be other factors.
In some ways, yes, certain factions within the US government have been untrustworthy. However, I think people do not understand that China is still on a completely different level. There’s a reason that the US is broadly trusted by its allies (or was, largely, up until the recent decade of overt campaign of internal sabotage).
To compare the US and China is like comparing Kent State to Tienanmen Square. Were they both violations of fundamental human liberty? Yes. Are they at all comparable as reflections of the viability of each respective state’s potential to sustain human liberty? No.
The US is in a conflict with itself, between far-right, corporate factions and those groups that actually defend some semblance of democratic liberty. This fact is the proof of the difference, that some meaningful element of democracy does exist in the US. The US has the ability to course correct. In China rule has been consolidated under a single man, unchallenged now, who has created hundreds of prison camps and a surveillance state unmatched even by the US. He ran literal execution vans in his run up to power.
Convincing people that the crimes committed by China against its own people and those they’ve colonized are normal is a way of lessening the seriousness with which those crimes are regarded. You have to ask yourself if that’s really the goal you want to be serving. You’re not required to sing the praises of the US, but acknowledging the meaningful degree of difference is critical to preventing the world sliding further into an authoritarian paradigm.
certain factions within the US government have been untrustworthy.
between far-right, corporate factions and those groups that actually defend some semblance of democratic liberty.
This just sounds like a whole lot of liberal US apologia. It isn’t actually far off from regressive phrases like MAGA or A Few Bad Apples. There was no golden time when the US has been a bastion of freedom and human welfare and it mostly shows signs of getting worse, and you cannot fix the US by removing a few politicians.
Are they at all comparable as reflections of the viability of each respective state’s potential to sustain human liberty? No.
I don’t see what the point is of picking two specific events when we are discussing nations and governments as a whole. Taken in totality the US does not and has not ever shown signs of sustaining liberty as you put it. The law and order system is a joke, human welfare is a joke, safety is a joke, education is a joke, foreign policy is a joke. A lot of these fundamental issues are completely ignorable for the privileged, and the last one ignorable if you live in the US itself, but I am not looking to have liberty for some and not others.
You’re not required to sing the praises of the US, but acknowledging the meaningful degree of difference is critical to preventing the world sliding further into an authoritarian paradigm.
I disagree. I think what you’re doing right now is what strengthens authoritarianism in “Western” countries. Always framing Western countries, especially the US, as the lesser of two evils just justifies nationalism and militarism and downplays the need for radical change. What’s the point of this liberty you speak of if we don’t use it to criticize our own governments, and why stop at just criticism? The truth is you’ll only realize how thin your liberty actually is when you actually pose a threat.
But I’m not sure how we got on this tangent. I was simply responding to the notion of geopolitical trust and how that relates to the US and China. The US reneges on international agreements all the time or simply does not adhere to them. The government also partakes in the manipulation of foreign governments, extrajudicial murders in foreign countries in “times of peace”, and sabotages countries with embargos. All of this should make the US untrustworthy, but the unspoken part is that when we talk about trust we are taking about among Western countries. These nations have some shared geopolitical goals and because the US’s violations aren’t against these nations but against ones where say the common religion is different or the people have a darker average complexion they can be ignored.
What’s the point of this liberty you speak of if we don’t use it to criticize our own governments, and why stop at just criticism? The truth is you’ll only realize how thin your liberty actually is when you actually pose a threat.
You’re conflating a comparison with an endorsement.
One can say the US is unquestionably better than China while still acknowledging the US has issues.
I’d challenge you to find any country that’s truly “trustworthy.” That doesn’t mean I think it’s impossible, I just think historically humans suck at governorship.
As for what’s different between the US and China, your original point, I think a lot of it is just what’s available/who has the better deal. The US historically has the better innovations, the better weaponry, and in the case of Europe, bidirectional cultural influences, and there’s just a lot more history with the US as a partner and a lot more families with folks in both locations.
This is an important difference that always gets left out in these articles.
Of course people will be anti-China when the CCP is making the movies (edit, I meant “moves” but movies works too haha). It’s one thing to ask for companies to make a version of media specifically for your country, but using your weight to make that the version? That is an insanely big red flag when Tencent has roots in everything and also goes by the whim of the party.
On the flip side, my friend from college moved to China a couple years after we graduated and he’s been doing really, really well. He loves it there. Ironically he ended up getting a job with Tencent and is a pretty big part of their last released Synced. So I’m glad he’s doing well, but it’s also been weird talking about certain topics with him. It was also weird when I was asking about how he was talking with me and he’s like “oh I just have to get on a VPN and etc so I that’s why I’m not around much, but it’s cool lol.” Kinda freaky when I also just see the articles about a company getting fined for using a VPN. I’m sure he’ll be fine but it’s still slightly worrying.
Which ultimately kind of sums up the situation. My friend loved his experience in China so much so that he moved back there seemingly permanently and set himself up with a nice life with the culture seeming to be a big part of that. And then there’s the actions of the government. Many of the same criticisms can absolutely be held toward the U.S. regarding housing and towards a not-so-small portion our political actions, however it seems the difference is that we don’t have a knitted corporate government quite yet. I dunno, the sway of Apple, MS, whoever else just doesn’t have the same weight as the CCP and Tencent. That generally seems to be peoples issue
I dunno, the sway of Apple, MS, whoever else just doesn’t have the same weight as the CCP and Tencent.
The fact that you name Apple and Microsoft makes me think there is a blind spot here. If you are taking about big tech with it’s tendrils in US policy I’d go for Google and Facebook. Big pharma and the military industrial complex are even bigger issues. These industries don’t just undermine the US but harm the global community as well. Then you have think tanks, often funded by capital, shaping narratives and foreign policy.
I more just didn’t want to list more than 3 companies, hence “whoever else”. You’re right that Google and Facebook are closer to the tendrils of Tencent than MS or Apple, or well, Apple at least.
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*Chandran Nair is the founder and CEO of the Global Institute for Tomorrow. He is the author of “Dismantling Global White Privilege: Equity for a Post-Western World” (Penguin Random House, 2022). *
By that, you mean criticism of China’s known actions that are detrimental to their neighboring countries and the world?
If you want to call that “anti-China”, then sure, but it’s an appropriate reason to be, just as appropriate as being “anti-Russia”.
Pro-China Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Chinese Media
Stop the press!
While it is true that insane propaganda is off the charts, for example in my own country Australia we’re chaining ourselves to the fading star of the usa and the UK militarily despite having:
- different trade interests
- different geopolitical interests
- different cultural interests
all while the usa government tries it’s hardest to undermine our economic policy, erase our culture, and distort our politics towards their own demended lines.
There is zero evidence the chinese government does not want to do the same. They have interfered in our media, our education systems, there has been stupid petty trade squabbles with both “sides” using us for their own ends.
When chinese diplomats speak to our media, even in excruciatingly fair interviews, the pattern is the same slimey deny deny deny and legal quibble that usa diplomats engage in. Their media is insanely critical of Australian life too.
There are no good guys in this power struggle and looking for one is childish thinking.
Even this article refuses to address the notion that the chinese government has ever conducted itself in a condemnable manner.
As an American, I thought our cultures were relatively similar being both former British colonies. What different cultural interests are you referring to?
we elected a socialist in the 70s. It ended in a constitutional crisis and his successor was groomed by the CIA. rhymes with certain things no?
we had a publicly owned transport system, telephony, healthcare system, a thriving public service. Then we started getting leaned on.
We had a collectivist culture, government funding for our own media with our own values, then we started getting leaned on.
It goes on.
Even our slang is being replaced, people are pronouncing things your way, the media of the usa is replacing everything and that’s intentional government policy.
We had a collectivist culture, government funding for our own media with our own values, then we started getting leaned on.
This is hilarious to point out when you consider Rupert Murdoch has done more to change American politics than probably anyone else in the last 50 years, but you’re gonna complain about the US “leaning on” Australia? Sorry but that just screams of shirking responsibility for your own country’s problems.
Everything is feedback cycles. Yes there’s homegrown bullshit but it’s naive to ignore how that is encouraged by for example the usa exporting neoliberalism and encouraging/bullying other countries to deregulate their own markets (like media ownership that lets people like Murdoch rise) for favourable political treatment.
It’s naive to ignore that when usa media, usa products, usa megacorps all arrive somewhere that they wont swing the culture.
The usa has almost certainly interfered in our elections ffs.
Being a country the usa has military interest in is incredible corrosive. It’s not just Australia where this has happened.
Not Australian or American, but hey it’s the internet so why not voice second hand knowledge: I heard Aussies pride themselves on being (relatively) egaliatarian, despising individuals elevating themselves above others. Seems to me about as antithetical to US mentalitity as it goes :)
AU and USA share in a foundation belief that they are “classless societies.” I think this is probably true of many ex-British colonies since class is such a dominant and suffocating aspect of British culture.
Australia, like the USA has severe inequality, and the rich there like to flaunt their wealth. A disproportionate number of the crypto grifters ended up being Aussie. And while Australia does have a better social welfare state than the US it is both 1) under attack and 2) was put together almost entirely by one socialist prime minister in 1975 who was taken out after only a few months by a coup.
I think this is probably true of many ex-British colonies since class is such a dominant and suffocating aspect of British culture.
Laughs in India
A lot of the Aussies you’ll chat to on the internet don’t realise how recent there was heavy segregation even among people broadly considered white now.
If you look at the last names of powerful people even now you’ll find that while they’re general all white dudes Irish last names are underrepresented, despite being around as long as English ones. A lot of migrants from Greece/Italy/Poland etc were heavily sidelined too.
Lets not even get into treatment of native peoples and non white migrants cause we’ll fucking be here all day.
This country is definitely heavily divided by class, last oecd report I read found 4 generation median time for bottom quartile income to next quartile up. That’s bonkers.
Gun culture, car culture, sports culture, political culture… /s, kinda
Here's a short summary of the linked article
Mainstream Western media frequently engages in relentless China-bashing by regurgitating trivial or fabricated stories without evidence. Positive stories about China are rare. Reporting typically adheres to three ideas - that China is a threat, must be linked to all global issues, and that curbing its rise is legitimate despite hundreds of millions gaining a better life. This betrays an imperial view that the West decides which nations participate in the global economy. The media war is powered by technology in a new propaganda era, with Western outlets assuming conflict is inevitable rather than promoting multilateralism.
Dismantling the dominance of Western media will be difficult but investing in alternative sources worldwide could provide more balanced views for local audiences.
Archive.today link to thediplomat.com
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