I’ve always hated the idea of using a subscription/cloud hosting for password management. I feel like I should have a LOT more control over that stuff and I don’t really want to hand all my keys over to a company.
All my secrets have been going in a highly encrypted archive with a long passphrase, but obviously that isn’t convenient on all devices. It’s been fine, I can open it on any computer but it’s not super quick. It does have the advantage of being able to put in multiple files, notes, private keys but it’s not ideal.
Anyway, finally found something that isn’t subscription, and has a similar philosophy - a highly encrypted archive file, and it’s open source and has heaps of clients including web browser plugins so it’s usable anywhere, and you can sync the vault with any file sync you like.
Thought you guys might appreciate the find, password managers have always been a bit of a catch 22 for me.
Note for android i found keepassxc the best app, and i’m using KeePassHelper browser plugin, and the KeePassXc desktop app as well as the free official one. Apps all seem to be cross platform.
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Are there advantages to this over self hosting Vaultwarden?
Main thing I prefer about KeePass is that it’s a straightforward app that creates a file. Self-hosting a database seems just that much more complicated.
I used to be a KeePass user, but moved away because I was ultimately syncing the database using OneDrive, which I felt at that point it was a cloud password manager, which I didn’t like for being open to the internet and entrusting the security of the company hosting it.
And yes, I moved to self hosted Vaultwarden with Tailscale and haven’t looked back.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
Fewer Letters More Letters NAS Network-Attached Storage SSH Secure Shell for remote terminal access VPN Virtual Private Network
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Maybe a silly question, but since I am considering making the jump to a password manager too, I am curious:
If I have a selfhosted server at home that is not connected to the public internet, can I still ise Keepass? Does it have to constantly sync with the server or is it enough that when I get home my passwords are syncing? Could that be a problem?
You have your local replica of the database on your device and once you’re home or can connect to your home server (through VPN, for example) it will sync with the remote database. I used to have synthing running for this and it worked without issues.
If your server is not “online” you could vpn into your home network and use it that way. Another option is to have it local, meaning for example with bit/vault-warden you can still view your passwords if you don’t have connection. But you can’t edit or add new ones
I use KeePassXC, but am assuming KeePass is very similar.
You’ll have a single file on your machine that is your encrypted password database. Syncing is not handled by KeePass and is your responsibility.
If you want to sync only when you get home, as long as your sync app that is fine with it, KeePass won’t know or care.
Keep in mind if you make changes on two devices without keeping them in sync, one will probably get overwritten unless you take special care to handle it. (My sync app warns me, then I take both conflicting files and in the KeePass app, I can merge them to solve the conflict without data loss.)
Ideally keypass would allow handling such conflicts internally.
Thats the big disadvantage of a single-file approach.Could easily be avoided e.g. sync whole folder and now you can have multiple files, e.g. 1 write file per program used.
I use KeePassXC on my laptop, KeePassDX on my phone and sync them with Syncthing.
This ia pretty sweet
I have the same setup. It’s really neat.
it’s so good, wish I’d found it sooner
keepass2android is worth a try as well.
Not bothered about the potential for keyloggers or even OS-level snooping on what is presumably your privacy-free Android device? Personally I would never type the master password into anything other than a computer running a FOSS stack that I control, but perhaps that is excessive caution.
Well, there is a limit to my paranoid. It’s really hard to find a sweet spot between security and practicality.
I found mine with this settings I said
I used to use Keepass (thanks person who said keep ass, I can’t not see that now) for many years but started to get frustrated with stuff not syncing properly and a few other reasons I can’t remember anymore. But I think I’ll have to give it a go again. I’ve been using Enpass for a number of years and it’s been good but I’ve never liked that it’s closed source.
For decent privacy oriented tool recommendations, here’s a list.
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/
There was some drama about the webpages so I’ll link both to avoid angry users. Anyway, KeePassXC is on there, which it seems like it’s a fork of KeePass, you might want to check it out.
What’s amusing is I am purposely not paying for bitwarden because of the check against darkweb leaks or whatever type feature when you pay. That’s seems like an anti privacy thing. I understand it’s a good idea albeit seems to expose a lot of information about you. I would like to do vaultwarden but don’t think I can trust self hosting myself without paying monthly for a vps which I don’t want to do. Home Internet hosting seems to unreliable to me for something that important.
Just random thoughts of mine here.
I host vaultwarden at home. No real need for a vps since your passwords are synced to your phone or laptop(whatever client you’re using) and you can just sync it when you’re home if you make changes, or setup a VPN (I use wireguard) and sync on demand when needed.
That said, I do sync my database to a vps for dr purposes incase my home server suddenly vanishes… for critical services I follow a 3-2-1 backup rule but it’s not absolutely essential.
because of the check against darkweb leaks or whatever type feature when you pay. That’s seems like an anti privacy thing. I understand it’s a good idea albeit seems to expose a lot of information about you
For the password leak checks, your passwords are never transmitted. They are one-way hashed locally, and then only the first few characters of the hash are checked against the API provided at https://haveibeenpwned.com which is run and designed by Troy Hunt, one of the most respected people in the cybersecurity industry. He collects major password breaches and makes them available to check against without actually exposing the data. It’s perfectly safe and secure.
The bitwarden clients also work when there’s no connection to the server, since they sync the vault. You just can’t add any new entries. That means spotty internet is not that much of an issue in terms of using it. It also means, that every device that has a client installed and gets used regularly (to give the client a chance of syncing) is automatically a backup device.
Love KeePass. When LastPass enshittened, I went looking for something immune to enshittification. Best money I never spent
Did LastPass do anything besides charge for it service?
They didn’t use strong encryption by default, Something about not enough iterations of whatever algorithm they use.
They also got hacked (more than once) , which is roughly when they announced the encryption issue.
I feel like they got bought by a shitty company too, but that’s beyond me.
There have been reports that some of these vaults that were stolen have already been compromised, though not sure if there is any proof.
OK, it’s just not what enshitification means. I don’t like the term but if you’re using it wrong it’s just confusing.
Fair point, I misunderstood. Thought you were asking for more general points.
As for enshitification, I suppose it started in 2015 when they were bought by LogMeIn (I looked it up), that’s where it generally always starts. Don’t know if the service degraded as I switched around that time. Though getting hacked twice in six months is pretty bad for a company guarding the publics secrets
I cannot stop reading it as keep ass
Well you don’t want your ass took, at least not without permission.
It keeps your ass out of negligence I’d say
Girlfriend at the time noticed this on my phone and had some choice questions for me.
LOL
That’s half the fun, well actually it’s a utilitarian app so pretty much all the fun
I prefer the KeePassXC fork as it’s written in C++ and not C# so it has better native integration with OSes like Linux, but yeah these are really good solutions with no subscription requirements or necessity to upload to any cloud service.
written in C++ and not C# so it has better native integration with OSes like Linux
What do you mean exactly?
Yup, I have been using KeePassXC locally since (one of) the first big LastPass breaches. I thought “password manager company… they know encryption” and then kept some of the most important things stored in my vault including notes of Bitcoin seedphrases etc. Thought "even if they get hacked, they wouldn’t let anyone exfil the huge amount of data from the USER VAULT SERVER… thought “my passphrase is like 25-30 chars long, nobody will crack that”…
5 years after my last login and I find out the breach happened, user vaults were exfil’d, the encryption was absolute shit, and the notes weren’t even encrypted.
I don’t trust cloud companies to keep promises or know what they’re doing today. and anything self-hosted isnt Internet accessable unless it’s on dedicated hardware subnetted off and wouldn’t matter if it got hacked.
Bitwarden for example does public reports and is pretty cheap at 10€ per year. But the base (free) offering is more than enough. The fee is only to have TOTP and a bit of encrypted cloud storage. https://bitwarden.com/help/is-bitwarden-audited/
In theory at least, online services would be more safe than a locally decrypted vault. If your computer is compromised, the bad actors can pull your encrypted vault for an unlimited brute force attack. Of course, this can be mitigated by increasing the decryption time. However, if your vault is already decrypted, then bad actors can just pull all your password from your memory.
I, for one, am decrypting my vault once when I start my PC. In theory, if I were to use an online solution, bad actors wouldn’t be able to pull my vault from memory.
In theory, if I were to use an online solution, bad actors wouldn’t be able to pull my vault from memory.
It’s the same issue once you login to your vault via browser extension. They have to download your vault locally on login to decrypt it when you enter your password anyway*. Even if they don’t store your vault password in memory, they either store the entire vault (unlikely for size reasons) or a more temporary key to access the vault. Local compromise is full compromise already.
*If they don’t, then they either made a giant technological leap, or they’re storing your passwords on a simple database on their servers and that’s not what you want from a password manager.
Why did people stop using notepads (actual physical ones) for this? No digital storage, no leaks. Besides, after a couple of times you get the muscle memory of typing in the passwords anyway.
I’m using randomly generated 64-character passwords with upper/lower-case letters, numbers, and symbols.
I prefer not to manually enter them every time.
Also someone could find and photograph your notepad and then all your passwords are compromised in one go.
Try to remember
(2m(&$9hso2 Ok_(#
We will see how fast you can remember that after a long and mentally exhausting work day :)I did this, stored in an encrypted container, for a long time. Problem is it’s not scalable unless you start reusing passwords across different sites and services, which is itself a terrible practice.
Switched to Bitwarden (self hosted) several months ago and am very happy with it.
Tell me you use the same password everywhere without telling me you use the same password everywhere
I have a different password for each service I use. Each password is 30+ characters long and completely random with letters, numbers and special characters. There’s no way I could remember any of them and they’d be a hell to type out manually. I use KeePass on every device I own and it’s synced over my NAS. So it’s super convenient and no risk for leaks.
My password manager contains about 600 passwords by now. I use 30+ passwords on a daily basis for work (IT industry) so no chance in hell that I’ll remember half of those. And the ones I need maybe once a year?? Good luck without a manager.
Yeah, I’ve been wary of cloud based options so gone with KeePass and syncthing to leep things synced locally.
I installed KeePass(XC) on Android, iOS, Windows, Linux, Mac, for Firefox and Chrome and it’s all synced via encrypted cloud share. It even has OTP functionality so you don’t have to manually type 2FA codes.
Whats it called on ios? Keepassium?
I don’t have an iPhone but I set it up for a family member. I remember we tried out two apps because the first one didn’t have what we needed. One of them was Keepassium, but I don’t remember of it was the one we kept.
There’s also Strongbox available for ios
Yes
If you keep the database in the cloud I recommend using a keyfile in addition to the password which is NOT kept in the cloud.
Very secure that way even if your cloud account is compromised.
I keep TOTP in a separate database.
I really like Strongbox on Mac for managing my Keepass-DBs. It is very well integrated and there even is a „no phoning home“ version that strictly runs locally.
and there even is a „no phoning home“ version that strictly runs locally.
Shouldn’t that be all the versions?
Why would a password manager app that uses a local database need to phone home?
Maybe I expressed it a bit awkwardly. The other version has some integrations for syncing with Dropbox etc. and some third-party libraries. Strongbox zero is stripped of all of that.
Ok that makes more sense lol
