- Hamas-run government says Israeli strikes on Jabalia refugee camp in Gaza killed at least 195 Palestinians, with concerns raised by the UN that these could constitute war crimes.
- Evacuation of foreign nationals from Gaza is underway, with 320 already crossed into Egypt; about 7,500 are expected to leave within two weeks.
- The strikes targeted Hamas military leaders and infrastructure, with Israel’s campaign responding to Hamas’ cross-border attacks from Oct. 7.
- U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is set to visit Israel and Jordan to discuss the conflict and the need to minimize civilian casualties.
Media Bias Fact Check (Reuters):
Overall, we rate Reuters Least Biased based on objective reporting and Very High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information with minimal bias and a clean fact check record.
“Reuters was unable to verify the casualty numbers”
Those figures are from Hamas, who has an incentive to inflate casualty numbers.
It seems like a bad idea to stay there given that Jabalia has been under bombardment for the last month, IDF forces have been very clear that civilians need to evacuate north Gaza, they will consider those who remain to be potential enemy combatants, (“terrorist sympathizers,” as they phrased it,) and there is a network of Hamas’ underground tunnels beneath the area that constitute a valid military target. Of course Hamas wants people to stay where they are despite all this so they can remain human shields and make Israel look bad in the media when the inevitable consequence of refusing to evacuate occurs.
Seems like Israel is sending a strong message that hiding among civilians isn’t an effective shield for Hamas anymore. Much of the Palestinian strategy has been to provoke attacks then portray Israel as war criminals when they inevitably counterattack, and it doesn’t seem like Israel cares about this concern trolling anymore.
Can you provide your estimate for the causalities? If Hamas is providing inflated numbers, what is the real figure?
Is it zero? Hard to imagine its zero civilians killed. But you say 195 is too high. So we are in the range of [0,195] ?
The sad thing to me is that I don’t think either government genuinely cares about the 195 deaths except as political leverage on Hamas’s side and 195 fewer problems in Netanyahu’s way.
I really struggle to see what leverage Hamas gains by fudging their numbers. It feels like a talking point to reduce the fatality count.
This number, half this number, quarter this number… the political reality is the same. Murmurs of condemnation while the US keeps the money pump going, Israel keeps commiting war crimes, and Palestine shrinks into nothing.
It’s mostly to make their own people more sympathetic to their cause, I’d imagine.
You think entire city blocks bombed and leveled to the ground, entire families just disappearing from existence is not enough to sympathize, so they need to fake the numbers?
Sorry to be replying so late, (original poster of the post that generated all these comments here) but I think you’re missing the forest for the trees. You’re right that entire families disappearing probably will get more people to sympathise. That was my original point. Hamas wants innocent Palestinians dead just as much as Israel does. Whether they’ll fudge numbers to move that needle up or not is not really important at that point: some people just feel like in the face of that political reality, is it really so unlikely that they’ll do so?
According to world organizations, the ministry of health’s numbers were accurate enough before, so they considered it to be reliable.
However, it is important to emphasize that Israel is bombing civilian buildings and ambulances, because some brain dead people still think Hamas is doing that.
Also, if we’re gonna argue about how many thousands of innocent civilians and children have died and saying stuff like “It’s not 9000 civilians, it’s actually less”, as if less thousand of civilian casualties is OK, then we lost our humanity.
Feels like you’re conflating all the Israel-Hamas issues together. None of that is relevant to what I said (maybe the first sentence is?) and I agree with most of it.
deleted by creator
Says who? Of course the number of deaths is relevant.
Doesn’t seem to be relavent to the world, as Israel is still massacring people and the world stands and watches.
Israel is still massacring people and the world stands and watches.
Intent is the difference between collateral damage and massacres. Israel is attacking military targets that Hamas hides among Gazan civilians. Hamas attacks civilians for the sake of murdering and kidnapping civilians. It’s wild how many here seem to be keen on supporting the genocidal underdogs simply because they are underdogs.
Israel has been occupying Palestine, killing innocent civilians and stealing their lands decades before Hamas was even a thing.
Zionist psychopaths are above the law.
I had somebody tell me yesterday that this refugee camp is in fact a city.
As if bombing a city is better.
War sucks. Belligerent cities are often bombed. Civilians always suffer. This is the inevitable consequence of that city’s government slaughtering hundreds of civilians of a state with superior military capabilities; I’m not sure what they thought would happen.
New euphemism dropped: “Belligerent cities” is the new refugee camp.
I’m not sure you know what some of those words mean.
New euphemism dropped: “Belligerent cities” is the new refugee camp.
Gaza’s government attacked Israel in an act of war. This means they are a belligerent against Israel in this conflict. The population centers they control, aka, cities, are being attacked in response. I’m not using a euphemism, I’m calling this exactly what it is.
Unless the people of the city are the same as the government, I don’t see how you can say the population is belligerent. I don’t think we should say the Israeli citizens are belligerent because their government funded Hamas and are doing a genocide.
Unless the people of the city are the same as the government, I don’t see how you can say the population is belligerent. I don’t think we should say the Israeli citizens are belligerent because their government funded Hamas and are doing a genocide.
Huh? Israel is indeed belligerent, because they are at war. It seems like you don’t know what this word means.
I think there are two issues:
- “Belligerent” has more than one meaning, and people are being tongue-in-cheek using it as an adjective rather than a noun.
- Generally, the noun refers to combatants, not civilians, because deliberately killing civilians isn’t just an inevitable part of war, it is a war crime (no matter whatever context you think justifies accepting civilians as collateral damage).
Generally, the noun refers to combatants
…or in this case, a nation and its territories
deliberately killing civilians isn’t just an inevitable part of war, it is a war crime (no matter whatever context you think justifies accepting civilians as collateral damage).
- killing civilians is deliberate
- killing civilians is collateral damage
Pick one.
You could literally take your statement reverse the attacker and defender, and use it for the October 7th attack.
Either your truly neutral, or you have an agenda. If your neutral, I applaud you and your commitment to pointing out each sides wrongs.
If you have an agenda, justifying an attack in such a way that it justifies reprisal attacks just invites infinite justified violence
Sure and you can use that as to why Hamas did what they did.
Sure, but it’s Gaza being bombed now. So should have tried a different approach probably.
What would a nation do if their lands keep getting seized, your people marginalised, your plight ignored by almost all countries?
Sue for peace, accept the least terrible terms you can.
At one time Palestinians had so much support all their neighbors went to war for them, this goodwill appears to have since evaporated due to their behaviors and unwillingness to compromise. Now they are just being used as convenient pawns against Israel, as their lands ebb away. If they are to to be free and autonomous once again I don’t see any other viable path.
Ah yeah, people being actively ethnically cleansed should just sit back and accept their fate.
SURELY there is NOT ONE SINGLE thing Israelis did to provoke Oct. 7 attacks.
Oh yeah, it wasn’t just ONE SINGLE THING. It was THOUSANDS OF THINGS. Those things being war crimes committed against Palestinians. And not just recently, it has happened for decades.
Ah yeah, people being actively ethnically cleansed should just sit back and accept their fate.
SURELY there is NOT ONE SINGLE thing Israelis did to provoke Oct. 7 attacks.
It was THOUSANDS OF THINGS. … for decadesRage and violence won’t change Gaza’s realpolitik situation, it will make things worse.
All the perceived historical grievances in the world won’t change Gaza’s realpolitik situation.
They cannot win through violence. They will lose everything if they insist on it. I’m saying Palestinians should instead try pacification and diplomacy, it is the only viable path to peace where they have hope of achieving some objectives that are important to them. Ignoring the fundamental realities of their situation brought them to here.
I don’t see the benefit to slow rolling the release of foreign nationals in Gaza. Why is it going to take 2 weeks?
Egypt really REALLY doesn’t want refugees. They are the biggest hurdle. They are screening everyone ahead of time to ensure they have a place to go.
Reasonable answer: Because they need to ensure that everyone has a place to go and won’t cause an international incident when the border (so Egypt) devices that they don’t have a valid passport or are going to become a homeless person or whatever. Also make sure there aren’t any known terrorists sneaking out.
Real answer: So that the IDF can murder more of them
I doubt the real answer is to murder foreigners, someone is benefiting from a slow releases of foreigners… not sure who gets the most negotiation leverage here.
Israel has been the biggest hurdle to getting anyone out or anything in and I wouldn’t be surprised if they are the reason.
Why would Egypt want the IDF to murder more civilians?
Partially because Egypt and Israel have increasingly become something approximating allies. So same logic as the US
But also? The majority of “arab” nations dislike Palestine on the best of days. So the usual bigotry against any immigrants amped up a few notches. Think Mexicans in the US or the Polish in the EU (and a big driving factor for brexit in the UK).
But there is also the active fear of Hamas led Palestinians becoming terror cells or trying to stage a coup. Egypt in particular has been fighting for years against, allegedly Hamas led, Islamic terrorists for years in the Sinai.
Similar to the (allegedly?) Iranian backed terror groups in Yemen.
So yeah. There will obviously be some light condemnation. But nobody is going to do anything about the IDF killing Palestinians. Because Israel becoming even more of a pariah an the inevitable long term destabilization from pocket groups for decades to come is the real goal of this. Having fewer Palestinian refugees is just a “bonus”.
Because everything is the jews’ fault, apparently.
The IDF are the ones with the missiles, the rockets, the guns, the bombs, the tanks, the walls, the barbed wire and the funding taken from US tax payers. If the fascist terrorist state of Israel doesn’t like the world’s reaction, maybe it should change its behavior.
That is some fine brainless gibberish that still does not explain why Egypt would want the IDF to kill civilians.
deleted by creator
