Meta just announced that they are trying to integrate Threads with ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, etc.). We need to defederate them if we want to avoid them pushing their crap into fediverse.
If you’re a server admin, please defederate Meta’s domain “threads.net”
If you don’t run your own server, please ask your server admin to defederate “threads.net”.
Let’s not defederate from every corporate player. Some of them can probably respect reasonable rules of civility.
But fuck Meta. We already know how this plays out.
We know there’s a huge wave of hatred and misinformation incoming. We’ve seen it on their other platforms.
There was an interesting paired poll done, asking about federation with Threads and federation with Tumblr.
66% of people were wary of or actively opposed federating with Threads. Fewer than 20% were wary of or actively opposed federating with Tumblr.
It’s not “defederate from every corporate player”. It’s passing this message on to Meta:
When Tumblr came out about the idea of opening up and using activity pub people were in favor of that idea. It’s not just hating companies, Facebook really has a bad track record when it comes to abusive practices and also extremely poor content moderation (you can find right wing hate speech on Facebook despite them having policies against it, people report it and nothing happens).
There’s a list of people that have agreed to block it at https://fedipact.online/
That site is an assault on my eyes.
Web 1.0 always was a good lookin kid
Graphic design is my passion.
The design convinced me to give meta a chance.
Oh jeez how do I turn off all the moving stuff
If you don’t subscribe to threads you’ll never see it.
Great and such, but the large majority that might come to the Fediverse will never look nor use that function. If we don’t defederate with our instances now, we never will.
The thing you don’t get is that more common people will find the lemmy servers for the first time. Additionally it is more of a Twitter clone and doesn’t threaten much.
What do you mean by “find Lemmy servers?” I mean, can you describe how that will look like from the perspective of someone that is using threads? And how that will motivate more common people to change the platform or browsing behavior?
Lemmy.world is a server running lemmy software. It’s federated so you can subscribe to lw communities of Mastodon and comment as well. Threads and Mastodon don’t support communities though so all they can do is subscribe and comment. There is no negative to lemmy servers of Threads being federated. Threads users will subscribe to lemmy communities, but stay on Threads. If you’re on a lemmy server it doesn’t change anything. You’ll just see posts and comments with accounts ending with @threads
From my understanding of your earlier comment you said casual Threads users will find out about Lemmy servers for the first time and I asked about how that will work out from the perspective of a threads user. I hoped for an answer of that.
Exact same experience as a Mastodon user.
*everyone doesn’t
Why won’t I see it in the All section without doing anything?
Because threads doesn’t have communities. All threads people can do it comment.
They can post to communities by mentioning their handle, mastodon users do it all the time. They’re certainly not going to be as much of a problem for us since it’s a deliberate process, but it’s also not that far fetched that users will sign up there to abuse it, especially if threads has poor moderation (it’s not looking good as it is).
will i see (negative) culture change
Undoubtedly.
Yeah, close that protocol! Build the walls around our garden higher! No need to wait for them to actually do something worth defederating over, we just don’t like them!
This is silly. A major social media network is trying to join the Fediverse and everyone’s keen on stopping it. If Meta does something dirty or damaging, sure, defederate them then. But I was kind of hoping that open protocols would flourish, not just end up as another bunch of balkanized forums and Reddit-likes.
The protocol only needed an open license that forbade profiting off user data.
That’s a pretty big restriction for an “open” protocol.
If you haven’t noticed them doing dirty or damaging things for the last twenty years, feel free to engage with them.
There’s more than enough evidence to show their intentions are far from pure.
How are we supposed to do that when people like you are encouraging admins to defederate which removes any semblance of freedom of choice that you are fucking trying to imply we act upon?
So… admins aren’t free to choose? Why are you trying to take away admins freedom of choice? Sounds kind of authoritarian to me.
If you’re self-hosting a personal instance, do whatever you want.
But if you’re hosting a community for other people, you should consider what they want. That’s the responsibility of a community leader.
That’s the beauty of the fediverse, if the instance you’re on isn’t doing what you want, you can move to another one. Or create your own.
I’d say that’s a pretty clear indicator of the popularity of decisions. Saying “No, you can’t do that, cause I don’t want that” is putting your desires above the desires of others.
This is why I love federated communities; the freedom of choice is great to have.
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Sign up on Threads if you want Threads content. Fucking duh.
They’re a multinational corporation, they don’t need us to host their shit for you to be able to read a goddamn article and learn something.
If you don’t yet understand that they’re evil that’s on you.
But why do YOU get to choose for everyone else?
Choose what? If you want to find an instance unscrupulous enough to federate with that company then go for it. Who is stopping you?
People like OP here, begging admin to block it?
Like are you for real? He’s literally asking them to take my choice away.
It is always the admins’ choice, that has never been any different. You are free to choose which instance you are part of.
This petition changes nothing about that.
What if some of us don’t care if they’re evil?
Then feel free to go to threads or somewhere that does federate with them. You don’t have to stay on a particular instance if they don’t federate with something you want to engage with.
That’s your freedom of choice.
There is no plan for kbin to defederate with Threads, which is why I’m here you dolt. Maybe you should leave.
._.
Then you’re evil. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Go ahead, be evil. It is certainly your prerogative.
Edit: just look at how many votes “But what if some of us don’t care if they’re evil?” got. Like, what a wild-ass bullshit thing to say. This thread is definitely being astroturfed.
Lol
Thanks, it is my prerogative.
This is the point of the freedom of federated communities: we can read whatever the fuck we want from wherever the fuck we want without having authoritarian censor-heavy limp-wrist adult-baby moderators and corporate fascists determining what we are allowed to read or affiliate with.
The freedom to read both sides and control what I want to interact with on my own will, and make my own decisions is why I’m fucking here. I don’t want people like you making decisions for me, go fuck yourself.
Thanks for noticing I’m evil. I’ll go make a nice blood sacrifice to my effigy of Satan by eating another baby.
So when they steamroll this place so hard you only get their side of the story, what then?
Well fucking said.
Right, so nobody’s stopping you from joining threads, or making your own instance. You can call it evil.villain. Why don’t you?
It’s sarcasm. I upvoted them because I would have said something similar to highlight the absurdity of any argument against defederating with Threads.
Read their replies. They are apparently being sincere. You have fallen victim to Poe’s law.
I’ve noticed a lot of turfing on all of these threadsfed posts. It’s becoming more and more. People just need to get a threads account if it’s so important to them.
Well they’re clearly aware of us, we can’t pretend we’re just a bunch of silly little beans doing our own thing anymore. Of course they’re going to do this. There is literally not a single reason for them not to.
Then get fucked?
Meta are largely responsible for the current state of affairs right now. Nearly every current war, genocide, fake news, and more can be tied back to Meta.
Are you seriously simplifying all current conflicts caused down to simply social media? So if we completely remove all social media, humanity instantly becomes the utopian society from science fiction. STFU with this stupidity you ignorant child.
Simply? No.
Dangerously and deliberately engageful? Yes.
Look at the impact of FB in the Rohingya genocide for fucks sake.
Fucking right wing wanker.
The fuck is wrong with you?
decentralization purpose is choice to move to other instance
Or build my own, which is great to have as a contingency.
You can spin up your own server… That’s what the fediverse is.
The freedom to do whatever you want as an admin, and the freedom of choosing another server where you’ll still be part of the network
Meta/Facebook threatens this, because their user base dwarfs the rest of the fediverse. They’re also running their own closed source server code… They can gatekeep their own federation
I would love it if companies joined the fediverse, but like, by making instances. Maybe even use it for their internal Intranet. Maybe they could add federation compatible APIs to their existing software
I don’t want a massive social network company to use their position to make a new social network…
Federation is like Bitcoin or Tor - it’s decentralized, until one org becomes too large… At that point, they can control the network in countless ways
When you fuck over people with their freedoms, you don’t deserve the freedom to be extended to you.
It’s the same as paradox of tolerance. You shouldn’t be tolerant to intolerance, and you shouldn’t give freedom to those who want to strip it away from you.
That’s like freedom 101.
I’m sure there will be instances that remain federated with them, and you can join those… or just join Threadstagram.
This is what I’m thinking. I don’t understand why people fled from the corporate internet only to be excited to go back to them.
The corporate internet is adopting an open protocol. I find that to be exciting. It’s not us “going back” to the corporate internet, it’s the corporate internet coming to us.
All of the corporate internet adopted open protocols in the first place. Expand your limited view and increase your awareness of the history of the networks as they evolved before Google, Microsoft, and Apple were beginning and end of tech. We got to now with open protocols. Now everything is being walled up by DRM since theyve managed to preintegrate it in all of the hardware across the board before the open protocols even come into play.
The microbloggers are a bit different than us, in that they actually try to create a “social circle.” Threaded discussions with random assholes like we enjoy tend to be more focused on giving us someone to reply to.
How many times does Meta have to show you who they are before you start paying attention?
Federation means you can defederate for any reason. It’s not a set of principles, it is an ontological arrangement whereby power is distributed. Plenty of users will look for defederated instances to join because keeping facebook out of our shit is what we want. You are free to find instances that are federated. Nobody will stop you.
And as for things they’ve done, personally I find that knowingly stoking genocide in Myanmar is enough for me to not give them any more chances.
Ever play Plague Inc? The secret to winning is to not become deadly until you’ve already become engrained and established throughout society. Then you add the deadly features once you’re too deep in.
Don’t let the cancer establish itself as something innocent. The owner of the platform WILL take any opportunity to seize control of the media so it can seize control of the message.
I just love this comparison 🥰
Pandemic Legacy is a great game.
I’d be closer to agreeing with you if XMPP didn’t completely invalidate your point. They did it there and they’ll do it here.
XMPP works great, you just have to use it. It doesn’t invalidate anything.
Theres a reason nobody uses it anymore. Google extended the crap out of it, effectively took over the protocol and then retired it. It bears the same echoes of what’s happening here.
This didn’t happen. In fact Google was the one who fell behind development when the protocol moved on and deprecated unencrypted connections for example. People just don’t make it a priority to use XMPP instead of the walled gardens they are using now.
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“yes, they kill, torture, brutalize, pillage, and kick puppies, but if we don’t allow them an equal voice, can we truly say we are any better?”
Yes. Yes we can.
I’m sure Meta won’t be awful this time! Sure they’ve been awful quite literally every single chance they’ve gotten, but they won’t be this time!
I’m not saying they won’t. I’m saying there’s no reason to defederate preemptively.
I honestly don’t understand how some of you have this point of view. This isn’t a they’ve been evil once or twice thing. This is a they’ve been evil at every single opportunity and actively seek out more opportunities to be evil for well over a decade and you’re a fucking moron for trusting them thing.
For some reason I can’t dowvote this, so: this is a fucking stupid take
That’s the only way to do it with minimal damage.
Defederating after this happens will cause a giant strain on the Fediverse and will simply accelerate the problems for which we don’t want Meta here in the first place.
Damn. Better block it now because we literally can never go back to reassess.
Fuck I wish we had more time to decide!
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
You are either innocently unaware of how it works or just dissassociating from reality. Meta has to compete with Fediverse if it can’t directly harvest user activity for marketing and advertising systems. They quite obviously will (have to?) do everything they can to influence technical decisions that allow them to steer the protocols in a way that is profitable rather than for the good of the end users and communities.
They ultimately will seek to build walls around their development and services on their terms and leave others not part of their profitable ecology of development outside of those walls. They are a publicly traded corporation, this is just a normal evolution in for-profit corps, even if current employees do act as positive curators of community engagement.
If you like meta so much, why are you here?
I don’t like Meta. Why do you assume everyone has to be on one “team” or the other? I’m in favor of open protocols and open protocols can be used by anyone. Even if you don’t like them.
Every open protocol that survives past the first couple of days of actual use, no exceptions, has some mechanism whereby bad actors can be removed.
Don’t use “open protocol” as your excuse for sucking Zuck the Fuck off.
As I just said, I don’t like Meta. And keep your homophobic slurs out of civil discussion.
But they are not yet a bad actor on the Fediverse because they haven’t actually joined the Fediverse yet. If you’re so convinced that they’re going to do something awful, why the big deal about defederating preemptively?
You don’t like Meta. You’re just arguing vociferously for inviting Meta, a company with nearly two decades of documented abuse of everything they touch, into another space for them to fuck over.
Pull the other one, Sparky. It plays Jingle Bells.
There’s no need to invite Meta, the invitation has already been given by the fact that ActivityPub is an open protocol. I’m just very annoyed by the cavalcade of people who were so quick to tout that benefit over Reddit’s walled garden now turning on their heel and reacting “but not like that!” When that openness is made use of.
Defederation is part of the protocol.
At least make your rhetoric somewhat resemble reality? Please?
They’re confused and likely think that federation means no rules and unconditional access to any server from your account, when it couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ve said it elsewhere but people craving that don’t want the fediverse, they want Nostr.
This place is the way it is, why it’s enjoyable to be on, because we can and do defederate servers run by bots, trolls, or any other malicious actors, otherwise they run wild.
Yes, and I’ve got nothing against defederation. Once there’s actually a reason to defederate.
Nearly 20 years of Facebook abuse is apparently not a reason.
Holy fucking shit is the attention span of humanity getting short.
Short-sighted advice from people who don’t understand the purpose of ActivityPub.
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Yes allowing corps into the Fediverse is very short-sighted.
It wasn’t a roll-call.
why is snark
I’m snarky because I’m annoyed at seeing the constant FUD being lauded around here. Sorry if that snark comes off as hostile.
Yes, Meta is a shit corp who doesn’t deserve any free pass. However, ActivityPub wasn’t built with exclusion in mind. Nor does the protocol allow Meta access to anything that you aren’t already giving up freely to thousands upon thousands of other servers (many of whom cannot or will not respect your rights to data privacy) whenever you use any Fediverse platform.
People who are scared of Meta joining the Fediverse simply do not understand how the Fediverse works, or misunderstand the design philosophy of ActivityPub.
ActivityPub wasn’t built with exclusion in mind.
So what? People can run kbin or Lemmy as a standalone forum not connected to anything, if they want. People are free to use the software however they see fit. Wouldn’t exactly be the first time people choose to use software in some other way then the authors intended.
ActivityPub wasn’t built with exclusion in mind
Yes it was, that’s what defederation is for. The potential for exclusion is literally built into the design philosophy of federated networks. Every instance has the freedom to not host Meta’s crap. I don’t know why people don’t understand this.
You’ve also made the point that the information is still accessible, so it’s not like we’re taking down their instance. We’re just turning it into a pariah to devalue it, and if enough instances do this, I guess that means the action is popular. If it wasn’t, it wouldn’t succeed. There’s very little to debate here, it just sounds like you don’t like people using their power to do something you disagree with. Sorry, that’s up to those people. It’s not for you to dictate what other people do with federation.
have different problem
platform owned by corporation tends to have more pro corporate users
what happens to existing culture on fediverse
is general trend that online communities get worse when above threshold
Most people on Threads aren’t pro-corporate, they don’t actually give a shit about that. They’re just too confused by the decentralized model to be on Mastodon, couldn’t get an invite to Bluesky, and wanted somewhere to be other than Twitter.
Being connected to it all via Threads could eventually help them get enough understanding to migrate to a different instance.
aren’t pro corporate
threads can still have more pro business people than fediverse
does analogy about non-technical topic work better
what happens to existing culture on fediverse
Likely nothing. If Threads users are problematic and Meta refuses to moderate them appropriately, then instances can defederate later.
Doing it preemptively or forming a pact is just absurd, though. It’s treating the users of Threads as a threat, instead of Meta (who can and will still be able to harvest anything they want from the Fediverse, because that’s how ActivityPub works), and that’s not fair to them who didn’t ask to be thrown into our community in the first place.
defederate later
problem often causes damage before is addressed
pre block be safer
threads users signed up for threads
Clearly you haven’t dealt with a Mastodon instance having a major defederation event.
For most users, regardless of the validity of the defed, the user experience is terrible. Their social graph just suddenly, stops working, the people they follow can no longer see their posts, all because of the actions of a few bad actors or administration failures.
This paired with the fact that maybe only Firefish or Misskey lets you (mostly) seamlessly migrate to a new instance with your data intact, and the lack of a standard way to see what followers you will actually keep when you migrate, means that the defederation experience is sucks, and migrating to a different instance to escape that is a pain in the ass.
Meta has already shown it has piss poor moderation in the best of times, and actively boosts incendiary content in the worst of times, all while collecting, profiling, and exploiting your data. It’s literally inevitable that they’re going to break the rules of all but the free-est of free speech Instances, so for the privacy, safety, and headaches of everyone in the fediverse, we might as well save ourselves the trouble.**
While I’m cool with blocking threads.net, “we should block all corps from the Fediverse” doesn’t make sense and that’s a bad cause to focus on
It’s fine if an instance wants to make that their policy, the fediverse gives an instance the freedom to do so, but it would provide little gain for a lot of annoyance
Other bad reasons:
- “Meta can spy on us”: they can do that even without threads.net, and federating makes little difference there
We certainly should keep corps at a 1km pole from here.
They come and ruin everything they tough in the name of profit. Can they force their way? Partially, maybe, in some ways. But if we welcome them with open doors, it will get way worse. The last thing we should do is give up and say “they’ll get their dirty hands into this anyway”.
Let’s keep this place tidy of bullshit, pretty please.
We can take precautions against their nonsense by enforcing the standards, and we can educate people about why it’s a problem. That becomes difficult if we just close off entirely. We can’t have an impact on things we close off to and ignore
I don’t think we should give up or welcome them with open doors, I just think there’s more nuance to it than “defederate from any fediverse thing tied to a for profit entity”
Facebook’s case is special because of their nasty history with control and abuse, so if people want to be extra aggressive with them then I’m good with it
Well, first off - protect yourself, and then manage the rest. I welcome the noble goal of enforcement and policies and education, but it will always be like cathing a slinky.
We should be very vigilant with their presence here, and in this case, we should certainly close off.
Do you understand what corporations do?
I’ve got some understanding yes
I think most people here have a similar sentiment around corporations and big tech companies, which is why we’re on this platform and why we donate to keep them run by nonprofits
You are free to make your own Mastodon/Lemmy instance and federate with them. Being able to block instances is user choice which absolutely IS the point of ActivityPub. There is no one entity that says you must federate or must defederate.
Better yet, I’ll request the admin specifically to federate with Threads, so that I can move across the stuff that I care about to mbin from the Threads app.
For default, they are unfederated in threads.
Also, are you sure you want the mass don’t know what the federated web is? We are a low number of users. If we want to me the new standard of internet, we need the people to know what de Fediverse is. And threads can be that first door, and then they can start to spread to other more suitable stances.
I just want to extend the conversation.
If Kbin defederates from Threads, I’ll just leave Kbin, and stay with Threads. Defederating over vibes is not how the fediverse is supposed to operate. And for everyone advocating for this dumb idea, I’m just using this thread as a honey pot.
No, the entire point is that you’re free to go to whatever instance you want and/or host your own with your own rules. You’re more than welcome to go to one that doesn’t defederate, just as every instance owner/admins are free to defederate. It’s not how “the fediverse is supposed to operate” because a standard for how the fediverse is supposed to operate doesn’t exist.
fediverse isn’t supposed to have most users concentrated in one instance also
Bye felicia.
I’m pretty clear that meta has more problems than “vibes”.
Big tech is a cancer on the internet. It makes sense to avoid it.
Once they can interact with your account, they can pull your data into their server and analyzing it to deliver ads campaign.
They can already do this by hosting a small instance and going unnoticed.
They can get the data, but they need the federation so people see their content/advertisement.
And whenever an account from Threads upvote/ downvote or reply to your comments/posts or vice versa, Meta will analyze that and they can sell ads based on your political leanings, gender, geo-location, hobbies, marital status etc.
That’s the options from what I saw from fb ads dashboard years ago. If you’re from US, that options are broader and more detailed.
Bye then!
Here have a glass of boot juice for the voyage.
Please let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
“Everyone everywhere should federate.”
“Not like that!”
We don’t federate with nazi instances either.
Threads has massive homophobic and racist accounts like LibsOnTikTok and MomsForLiberty. We shouldn’t federate with an instance that can’t even take care of banning that.
0.19 allows users themselves to block instances…
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True
Meta is a threat to the platform though.
They are a threat to humanity as a whole
So do preemptively defederate when any corporation makes a new instance?
I’ve seen strong support for Tumblr federation adoption, so no. Context is important.
Better yet, let them enjoy the full connectivity for a month. Once they’ve enjoyed all the awesome content and got used to it - defederate.
Okay. I’ve seen stuff like this on both mastodon, and here, but i haven’t heard about them doing anything that would actually harm the fediverse. I guess i don’t know what the problem is. I know they’ve got a negative reputation, and for good reason, but isn’t that the awesome part of threads being federated? We can follow and connect to people there without being part of their system, and therefor not susceptible to their bs? If I’m missing something please fill me in.
People are concerned because there were examples of such things going horribly wrong, most notably with Google and XMPP.
Way back in the day, Google announced that its Talk messenger will support XMPP, which made decentralization fans very happy - finally, they can communicate with everyone from the comfort of their decentralized instance!..oh.
Google started implementing features in Talk that are incompatible with XMPP, and then dropped XMPP support altogether, ending up deprecating Talk in favor of Google-only Hangouts. This forced many XMPP users to get into Google’s ecosystem, since the people they contacted through XMPP were mostly just using Google Talk, and they couldn’t be contacted through XMPP any more. As a result, XMPP became worse off than it started and got practically forgotten by all but 1,5 nerds who keep it alive.
now most of their contacts were in defederated Google to which they now didn’t have access.
this ☝️. Those of us who remember what happened then, understand the potential dangers of federating with a juggernaut like META.
We should tread lightly!
This forced many XMPP users to get into Google’s ecosystem
No it didn’t
As a result, XMPP became worse off than it started
Wrong again.
This. I don’t care what Google or Meta do, I will never use their services.
As a result, XMPP became worse off than it started and got practically forgotten by all but 1,5 nerds who keep it alive.
Is it even true? I doubt XMPP was ever popular outside of google’s talk.
No it’s not in the least bit, but because people keep reposting that angry blog post by someone who was personally involved and wanted someone to blame so they blamed Google (as if XMPP needed any outside help to fail to catch on, they could do it on their own perfectly fine), people believe that narrative and then get sold on Meta wanting to the same with the Fediverse. As if they could give a flying fart (just like with Google and XMPP).
If they don’t care about Fediverse they wouldn’t join it in the first place. It isn’t just meaningless but actually harmful - people can gain access to the content on their service without being subject to their extensive surveillance and ads. Add to this all the regular problems with federation.
As for Google and XMPP, back in the days it was happening Google were playing good guys - they had infamous “don’t be evil” motto, supported various open standards and open-source projects (they still do so to some extend of course). I think for them it wasn’t really an intent to ‘kill’ XMPP, it just XMPP was too dependant on google so they suffered a lot when the company decided to stop federation.
Xmpp’s popularity isn’t the point.
The point is google intentionally killed it
How do you define if a communication protocol is dead? I use XMPP everyday, it works just well.
Also, I doubt that Google wanted to destroy XMPP. They simply needed a chat then noticed it’s crap for mobile devices. They wanted to offer their users seemless migration to the new proprietary protocol.
I was sad that Google stopped to use an official standard, but there are many better free options left.
XMPP works great on mobile devices today. Google could have easily developed and published such extensions themselves.
Not even a little bit. XMPP was rubbish.
Why? It works great for me and my contacts. I use it for all my personal messaging.
When Google started using XMPP in Talk, 20 years ago, it was crap. I haven’t used it in probably 15 years but it wasn’t great then either.
Then it must have gotten a lot better in the meantime then. I discovered it ~2020 while searching for alternatives to WhatsApp and realizing that other walled gardens cannot be the answer since they have the same problem as WhatsApp. I think we should revive the idea of an universal internet standard for instant messaging.
Just think:
Meta has literal billions of users.
The entire fediverse has about 1.5 million.
Less than a fraction of a percent.
Why in THE FUCK would meta notice, or care, at fucking all? The entire fediverse of traffic ported over to meta wouldn’t budge their advertising bottom line.
But, it’s a comparatively small group of smart people, having conversations, and profiles they don’t have tabs and near total control over.
There’s news about cop city and gaza I have seen here that I’ve seen NOWHERE else.
Don’t let them control the narrative here
But that’s good. Meta doesn’t care about Lemmy or Mastodon because they’re tiny. Threads is a threat to Twitter. They want to integrate with Mastodon just because Twitter doesn’t. That’s it.
They’re not going for “total control” of your conversation about Gaza. You are not important to them. You are not the main character in some David and Goliath story. There are only Goliaths.
They don’t want to federate because Twitter does not.
But neither to “extinguish” Mastodon or so. They need it as a defense like Google uses Mozilla, showcasing that not only do they enjoy competition, they in fact actively support it, by making their content available over there, too.
Because like you say, the entirely metaverse is so tiny compared to meta, thy could not give a flying fuck whatever the reason if it’s about anything competitive. But they can utilize the tiny underdog as a shield from criticism. And that’s valuable to them.
Do you know why Facebook paid a billion dollars for Instagram? Instagram wasn’t worth that much. It wasn’t generating a billion dollars in revenue. It probably still doesn’t.
Facebook bought Instagram because Instagram was a growing app that was popular with a demographic Facebook wanted to control. They spent a billion dollars to eliminate a growing threat.
Mastodon and, to a lesser extent, Lemmy, represent a growing threat. Not a very big one right now, but it could become a bigger one. It could become another billion dollar problem for the goliaths on the Internet, in a few years. They need to have total control, if a social media app starts to fragment it just collapses instead as users decide to go wherever the other users are.
Facebook’s 1000:1 user ratio would make Lemmy irrelevant and stave off that billion dollar problem for Facebook down the road. An incredibly cheap way to kill a tiny but growing competitor.
Threads doesnt have that much users I think. Fb, insta and whatsapp do have a lot of users but I dont expect a lot of users comming from there
The fediverse is an emerging threat. It’s not ready yet, but it’s on the right trajectory. Every time there’s angst on some other platform, the fediverse get’s a bump. Fediverse is not a real competitor yet, perhaps it never will be, but for meta it’s sensible to establish a presence here in the short term, because it may be much more difficult later.
There is one big reason why they would care - antitrust and EU regulation protection. They have no intention to destroy the platform Rather they want to please the regulators as they are leveraging the open standards. The EEE strategy is a conspiracy theory. Government regulations are the most probable reason for this change.
Dude, even if it isn’t straight out EEE they’ll just drown us, and eventually kill us because if whatever reason. It doesn’t even have anything to do with Lemmy, they have to manuver carefully if they want to let us live.
Do you have a Lemmy server that can take the load off of a billion user network? I have one and it for sure can’t.
Your server has users that all follow every single user on the entire fediverse? I will admit, that’d be a real concern in that case, but it also sounds a bit weird. What kind of users do you invite to your instance? O.o
If 99% of the network is meta (probably more) then every user will follow stuff on meta instances, instances like Reddit, will have an enormous load of content. You don’t need “everyone following everything” to get that, just imagine a “Reddit all” instance it will bring any small network to its knees.
It’s all in the numbers, and the usage IMO. I don’t want 10000 soul less posts a day, I want to see what people are up to, working on etc. those concepts are quite incompatible, at least on Lemmy because we are just small servers, not a uniformed giga billion network.
If your users are subscribing to 10,000 accounts who spam so badly that it causes resource issues, that’s not a Threads issue, that’s an issue of who you allow to use your instance.
That’s not how it works.
Why in THE FUCK would meta notice, or care, at fucking all?
Why do people ask rhetorical questions without following through?!
This is a question that should be asked. If, indeed, the fediverse is so unimportant WHY THE FLYING FUCK IS META INTERESTED IN FEDERATING WITH IT!?!? THAT is the question people should be asking, given that Meta does nothing that isn’t designed to add more money to Zuck the Fuck’s portfolio.
And yet … most people (for clarity, I don’t mean you here!) don’t ask that question. They don’t take that question you ask and wonder beyond that first kneejerk level. Use that question instead as a “LOL Meta doesn’t care about the fediverse” piece of evidence.
And this is why we can’t have nice things.
Well, then, let’s make our point I’ll just email the holders of the instances I’m on and let them know I support defederating threads
Meta will be okay making money off lemmy indirectly for a while. Then, if they grow, they’ll want more than a toehold.
When it’s Facebook, trust that greed and power are the goals.
It is inevitable that Meta will try to kill the fediverse while chasing profits, there is no other possibility in their endgame.
If that is pushing ads into other instances or killing those instances entirely we don’t know yet but it will happen.
It has to because the shareholders must always have more.
I just don’t think it’s possible for something to kill the fediverse. And if it is possible, then it is a flaw in the design of the fediverse and needs to be fixed.
People have been writing about this ad nauseum. It’s the embrace, extend, extinguish strategy. Join fediverse, extend the spec with so that not all clients are compatible with all features, repeat as necessary until everyone is using your client, finally drop compatibility with other clients.
Are you planning to pay for the extra bandwith to deal with all the additional traffic?
Meta will.
And then when they own the servers amd all the traffic, lemmy will be quietly murdered.
Quietly, because they’ll control the traffic, and therefore the narrative
And then when they own the servers amd all the traffic
That’s just…not how any of this works.
Today no.
Come make your instance on Meta™ it’s free™!! Its fast! It’s yours!!
Then later they’ll wreck havoc on our small servers making them slow and unreliable, making their servers even more interesting for people. And so on.
And that’s just one way among lots of ways.
I love that your fear is they will be successful and the lemmy devs and admins don’t have their shit together or a plan to handle anything but a small niche headcount.
deleted by creator
Exactly. It’s basically pen testing.
All activity pub needed to do was create a user rights guidelines that prevents profiting off the data. Meta wouldn’t have touched the Fediverse with the 10-foot pole, if that were the case.
Lololol and what legal mechanism are you going to use to enforce that?
ActivityPub is a protocol, not a fucking organization. It literally has no agency.
You can licence a protocol
ActivityPub can’t license anything. When you identify actual human beings in this conversation, perhaps you might have a point. So far you don’t.
First off, calm the hell down. You’re being needlessly antagonistic.
Secondly, it seems like the W3C is the publisher of the activity pub standard seems like they ducats what is an isnt compliant.
Seems like of was specifically authored by a team including Evan Prodromou according to the wiki.
If they wanted too, but like literally and open source software, it could have been given licencing requirements
Specifically, my research has turned up that implementations of these protocols can be licensed. Threads’ version of ActivityPub likely has its own licence. I think it would be safe to say that the creators of Lemmy and Mastodon specifically could have privacy rights dictated within their license implementation. That would nullify threads legal capabilities.
My sweet summer child.
With a network that big, they have to be very careful, and really try, if they don’t want our servers to just go kaboom.
Or we just defederate from any of those attempts.
Give https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html a read. Might sway you, might not.
This is an excellent point. Thanks!
in that case considering meta is saying that it would take nearly a year to federate the platform we probably should defederate them.
What point in that linked blog swayed you? The circumstances are quite different. XMPP was dogshit when Google started working with it. ActivityPub is light years ahead.
I really don’t know enough to say one way or the other, but the fact that this is an established Microsoft practice swayed me. I can actually believe google didn’t intend to do what it did to xmpp as a log of google employees from the 2000’s speak highly of the company, but these executives are traded like nfl players, and i know enough about meta’s history to believe they may do this. Besides I’m still new to development, but i don’t see many other reasons why it would take meta nearly a year to fully launch federation.
Actually this just occurred to me, but isn’t it interesting which accounts were linked first?
Triple-E predates Microsoft. IBM was doing it before Bill Gates was a twinkle in the mailman’s eye.
It’ll be successful and the current devs will lose the ability to unilaterally control the project.
So competition, that’s what they are afraid of.
@Creatortray
You’ve just written it : their negative reputation for easaly understandable reasons. We can already foresee Threads will very soon be used to spread the most toxic campaigns on the net and that will undoubtably harm the Fediverse. One of the most valuable trait of the Fediverse is its decentralization and consequently, the potential accountability of any server administrator. Why should we take those risks when it’s so easy to avoid it? #BlockThreadsOut
@mypasswordis1234@Nelfan @Creatortray @mypasswordis1234 if my server federates with #Threads and it creates a problem, I’ll stop supporting it and move to one that doesn’t.
@boiglenoight @Nelfan @Creatortray @mypasswordis1234
Great toot, Nelfaneor, but to use the word ‘risk’ with respect to the probability of #falseBook creating harm in the #fediverse network, is a mistake — it is a “certainty”.Boiglenoight if you value the free and open web we have news for you, your instance is having its HTTPS intercepted by Cloud(G)lare (change ‘G’ to ‘F’). Move to a different one, if you want us to continue dialog with you.
Why not just let them choose instead of trying to get users to brigade them? Personally I want my insurance federated with Threads.
Could threads generate so much data that it costs to much to keep an instance/server running?
In my opinion all big player are just federating to destroy the fediverse or take it over. Why else would they be here? There is just no need for them to be here exept to kill competition before it gets to big.
Dumb argument is dumb. We need to defederate the internet! LAN not WAN!
Username checks out
No but really, do you take your email server offline when a new server comes online? This is the same thing. Kinda dumb.
I’m all for defederating instances that are built to cultivate hate. Defederating against what may be one of the largest instances on the fediverse simply because of the corporate backing seems a little antithetical to the goals of the fediverse at large. To be clear, I’m all for defederating against threads if there’s reason to do so - if the instance shows a reason to do so. For instance, if threads becomes a instance that just spews hate, and the mods of the instance can’t get it under control, then defederate! Otherwise, it just seems a bit reactionary for no good reason.
