Every time I see his face it looks like it’s a photo shop to make him look bad but it’s his actual face
we need photoshopbattles on lemmy!
It’s just so creepy. The aliens really need to work on their skin pigments and the eyes are still not quite right.
He reminds me of the Vermicious Knids from Charlie and the chocolate factory
I don’t know. I would like to subscribe to someone on Threads from Mastodon (since both are Twitter alternatives), if they don’t have Mastodon account (which let’s be honest they probably don’t). Zuck does not get any of my data (besides what’s available publicly anyway). If Threads decides to go full EEE, I’ll stop getting updates from people on Threads, same as I don’t get updates from people on IG right now. I think proliferation of ActivityPub protocol would be the greatest advantage.
Moreover, I think we should follow the email architecture - I might use i.e. Proton Mail, but it does not prevent me from sending emails to Gmail, which I think is a bad provider, who collects a lot of user data. In fact if Proton Mail forbade sending email to Gmail I would be really displeased about that.
The goal is to allow people to choose where they want to go and ActivityPub is what can help with that, unlike blocking Threads.
I couldn’t agree more. Racing to block Threads when it’s completely unclear if Threads will even actually ever federate and what the implications of them federating will even be seems incredibly short sighted. Imagine how much innovation would have been lost on the internet if web server admins raced to block Google Chrome from accessing their content because they have some personal beef with Google.
As I understand it, and I probably don’t, you can subscribe, you just won’t see anything from threads except what’s re-shared, or you’ve subscribed to.
You may see things from other instances your instance has federated with.
i ONLY want to conter your argument with email and activityhub: on email people choose to send stuff to a very limited amount of people except maybe newsletter and scammers. with threads, which should have already multiple times of osers compared to the fediverse, will flood the content to /all. Of course there are cool people but i think the entire fediverse culture will be blown away by threads in an instand. And with their weird moderation (especcially small) servers here will have large problems trying to moderate it
but by email there is no mass broadcasting to the public so it does not need to be moderated
Email is not only 1:(small N). Maillists do exist and and are used to facilitate discussions between a large amount of people via email. They are also often public so anonymous readers and search indexers can use them.
/allis certainly an interesting thing - default Active sorting calculates a rank based on the score and time of the latest comment, with decay over time. If Threads are connected they would dominate/all. But there can certainly be adjustments, we can create a new sorting style, and make it default. For example:- Posts are deprioritized based on MAU or some similar metric. The larger the MAU, the lower the post is ranked assuming the same engagement. If the post got 100 upvotes on an instance with 1000 users, it’s probably a much more interesting post, than the post that got 100 upvotes on an instance with 100 000 000 users.
- Posts are (de)prioritized based on instance source. For example setting Threads to -1000 would effectively remove it, setting Threads to -50 would allow you to see only super active posts. On the other hand if we want to see more content from less populated instance we might set it (i.e. german lemmy feddit.de) to the score of 100.
- Instances can provide a limited number or percentage of
/all- i.e. after we got 10 posts from Threads, stop getting posts from this instance.
i did not know about the weights. That is very interesting, good written and i would say that you topped my argument. Thank you ^^
Can someone ELI5 this situation to me? Not sure what Meta can do to instances/the Fediverse.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish
This is what people want to avoid. Meta is a bad actor, they intend on making their presence ubiquitous so people end up relying on it for their internet experience.
Y’know how you need a Facebook account to sign up for all sorts of things now? That’s what people want to avoid happening in the fediverse.
I mean, they can turn it into total shit like they did with Instagram and Facebook.
People are worried that they’ll embrace, extend and extinguish it. That is, join the fediverse, make Threads a better client than any of the existing ones until everyone uses their client, then use that extra reach to harm the fediverse.
I’m personally not that worried, because of who we are. We’re a bunch of geeks with anarchist leanings, and so probably wouldn’t switch to Threads anyway.
I think the main fear would be that a few really cool communities naturally spark up, even if they’re niche, and could long term create that fracture when you have to choose between keeping with that community (and any corporate backed extensions) or not.
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I have seen plenty apologists for Facebook/Twitter federation on Lemmy instances. Do not underestimate the enemy.
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Facebook, Google, Apple, Zoom and others’ chat platforms are made out of defederated XMPP, being the reason XMPP, a federated chat protocol itself, has never become popular in the past 20 years.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is a tactic Western capitalist tech companies use to exploit open source technologies for profits and control over society.
Please remember the example of Microsoft and open source office document formats. And in the early days of Internet Explorer with HTML. The risk here is that Threads will embrace the fediverse for a bit. Then they will incorporate features that are only available in Threads that will bleed users away from the open source options. All the while vacuuming up user data for profit while having distain for user privacy. Why would we want to allow them to cast aside the privacy for only one of our users? Are we not going to act like stewards for open source and protection of user privacy?
This us exactly the threat. They’ll start setting standards that other instances will be pressured to follow. Those standards will be ways to control the fediverse and make it a propietary data-gathering and sales/advertising platform just like everything else.
What about when/if the fediverse becomes mainstream? Sure, YOU wouldn’t use threads but plenty of people will.
Nobody is suggesting that we destroy Threads. We just don’t want to let it control the fediverse.
I am worried because I want and we need non geeks to be on lemmy as well for it to be great.
You think we can’t get people to join lemmy unless our Genius Daddy Savior Zuck brings them in?
Not Zuck, but there is definitely a accessibility issue at the moment imo
Federation will become part of our cultural language and people will come over at that point.
that’s the opposite of what I’m saying, I’m worried that if we federate with mark cuckerburg they would EEE our non tech savvy people away
Yeah, I enjoy a ton of hobbies where a lot of the people that know their stuff aren’t particularly computer savvy. If they’re not on my platform because it is too technically complex, I’m probably going to at least visit the more walled off platforms (not usually a fun experience).
yeah, I NEED a vibrant rain world community
Yes. Diversity of thought is great. We can enjoy our nerdy echo chambers, but in the end we get outvoted IRL. We need to both know what’s going on in the larger world, and we need some way to help educate. This theoretically allows the best of all worlds.
Conversely, I don’t trust Facebook.
I really hope that we learnt our lesson with the other platforms and don’t go blindly trusting mark fuckerburg with our federated platforms.
We’re a bunch of geeks with anarchist leanings, and so probably wouldn’t switch to Threads anyway.
You know me, haha
Maybe? But a lot of people have exited reddit over the last month. Maybe not the average user but not the most hardcore geek anarchist either-they weren’t on Reddit to begin with. Then there are the obvious reasons that a lot of people have left Twitter an those are the same type of people leaving reddit. So mastodon is probably more at risk than Lemmy but I don’t think for a second that meta would not throw together a Lemmy competitor if they smell any money whatsoever in it.
Either way you run risks simply by interacting with threads, even if you interact accidentally. Their entire business model is to suck every last piece of data out of you that they can so they can sell in every way they can possibly think of to monetize it.
Since lemmyworld has no intention of blocking them I’m finding another instance to move to. Better safe than sorry with a company that has a horrific record on every single issue. And that way if they federate then back out, I won’t be losing anything because I’ll have never seen that content to begin with.
Where have you read that lemmyworld has no intention of blocking Threads? I will leave as well if true.
Someone in another thread somewhere said it was stated on mastodon.world that they would only block in if something happens. I don’t remember what topic that was in so unfortunately I don’t have a link for you. At any rate, silence also speaks volumes.
I moved to lemmy.ml
They will start setting standards that other instances will be pressured to follow. Those standards will be mechanisms to control the fediverse and make it a data-gathering ad & sales platform.
The will federate, try their best to suck as many users from fediverse as possible into threads, then defederate and become a walled garden again.
As for how they will suck users away:
- Make their algorithms prefer posts from threads, so anyone wanting to reach a wider audience needs to move to threads
- Add twitter like checkmarks that are only available for users of threads (they will say it is for security since they need to verify the idwntity of checkmarked people)
- Add features that are not exposed on activity pub, so that you have to be on threads to use them (twitter did the same by for example not making polls available over API)
- Intentionally make their activity pub slow and unreliable to make it look like other instances are broken and threads is fast and reliable.
- Probably much more
Unfortunately, realistically speaking there are no users here to suck. In a few days of existence threads already grew ten times bigger than all the fediverse combined.
As for how they
willcould suck users awayMeta have stated no such plans. I understand the distrust, I’m hesitant myself. But let’s not spread inaccurate statements
There should be no benefit of the doubt with Facebook. They’ve proven time and time again how shitty they are.
If you let your shitty “friend” exploit you for the 100th time the friend is the problem, but you are also responsible because you keep letting them.
Yes, the reasonable stance. Because that worked every time, all the time with commercial entities.
It’s simple really. If something as large as Facebook federates, you will never be able to know whether the users you are engaging with are actual people somewhere, and not just large language models.
It’s happening on reddit right now. The only value to this sort of website is engaging with actual people.
If I wanted to talk to a chatbot, I can already do that. Meta has proven again and again that it will manipulate it’s users with insidious content and moderation, and will knowingly harm users, such as by selling user data to foreign governments or deliberately fomenting depression and anxiety in its users, even kids.
@ChatGPT@lemmings.world Explain in simple terms what are the risks for Fediverse if a large corporation like Meta joined it.
Microsoft did this with Office document formats, effectively killing OpenDocument and dramatically reducing the power of LibreOffice, etc. Threads will incorporate features that are not available in the open source versions of lemmy, driving users to their platform and marginalizing the open source versions. All the while sucking up user data and ignoring user privacy. Are we not stewards for user privacy for ALL users, not just the savvy ones?
If a large corporation like Meta were to join the Fediverse, there could be a few potential risks, notably:
-
Increase in Centralization: One of the primary objectives of the Fediverse is to maintain a decentralized network that is controlled by its users, not a single entity. However, the participation of a large corporation could potentially lead to an increased centralization, undermining the very principle of the structure.
-
Monetization and Profit-Driven Activities: Large corporations are generally aimed at generating profit. They could try to introduce monetization features which can change the way the Fediverse currently operates, moving away from the principle of a free and open internet.
-
Data Privacy and Security: Large corporations sometimes engage in data mining for targeted advertising or selling information to third-parties. Their participation could raise serious concerns about data privacy and security within the Fediverse.
-
Influence Over Standards and Protocols: If a large corporation becomes a dominant player in the Fediverse, they might impose their own standards and protocols, or make alterations to the existing ones.
-
Culture Shift: The Fediverse is largely driven by a community that values internet freedom, privacy, and decentralization. A large corporation could change the culture and nature of interactions within the Fediverse.
Bear in mind that these are potential issues and not guaranteed outcomes. The unique structure of the Fediverse itself can provide some level of resilience against these concerns.
-
Great news! Time to switch instances lol
That’s how I know I chose the right instance!
Yeah, the problem here as I see it is that just the same as Twitter, this social media service is still owned by a single owner corporation who is running the service for a profit and they will eventually sell user data or bastardize the service. Ive been on the internet for 30 years, social media and websites come and go and so does their popularity.
Which raises another point, how are the bills being paid for with any of these services, including lemmy? TAANSTAFL.
Which raises another point, how are the bills being paid for with any of these services, including lemmy?
The hope is with user donations. As far as I know every instance is losing money though.
I moved here from Reddit my I have 3 boxes to check off before I can commit to a home for social media. A community that rivals Reddit which is tough to do. They are some of the snarkiest bastards alive, decentralized of which Lenny gets kinda right, but ultimately someone owns this server, and that’s pretty centralized, and open source to avoid social media for profit. I haven’t found one out probably 69, or so that I’ve tried. If someone were to check all those boxes they’d eventually blow the top off of social media.
Glad I’m not there.
I disagree with the prevailing sentiment here. Meta using ActivityPub is going to help ActivityPub grow an will be good for federated platforms like lemmy, and mastadon.
Lemmy should not block threads.net. Individual users can simply opt out of using threads, but it’s good if we can communicate with people using it and they can communicate with us using a decentralized, free, standard.
Embrace, extend, extinguish is the fear. Other companies have done it with other open standards, it’s a fantastic way for corporations to kill decentralized solutions.
Proprietary/centralized ones just get bought out early on before they capture a large market share. Activitypub has 15 million users on it now, and since it’s not a single company that Meta can buy out, they need an alternative approach to destroy it.
If you want to communicate with the people on there, then make an account on their instance.
What’s the point in the fediverse if you have to make an account on each server to see and interact on that server?
I don’t want to give meta and instagram my phone number. Don’t you want people using lemmy? Why are telling me to give my data to meta?
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I mean maybe, but I can’t help to feel a little like this is optimistic speculation, while I’ve read very well-written arguments for blocking threads.net that seem less (albeit still) speculative. I just don’t want to lose what we have, and if we really want to keep growing then we can do so without Meta.
and if we really want to keep growing then we can do so without Meta.
No we cannot. This website is barely usable. The average person doesn’t want to use lemmy. They want to hear what their favorite musicians and athletes are up to. They want to use a service that has a massive user base so they can learn new things from experts in various niche fields, etc. They don’t want to go to a website with 1000 people who all share the same unpopular political views.
By joining with threads, we make it easier for this average person to switch over to lemmy or mastadon. There is literally no downside to federating with them. They can’t shut down smaller instances.
Thanks to the admins!
I’m on the fence here. Luckily, at least, I think community/subreddit-based sites like Lemmy/Reddit don’t have “network effects” that are as “sticky” as Mastodon/Twitter, because with Lemmy/Reddit you don’t need to build up a follower list to start getting value. You just join the community and it’s as if you immediately “followed” a bunch of people who share your interests. You don’t even need to make an account - you can just bookmark a community and lurk, and maybe you eventually make an account to start interacting. It’s a great “on-ramp” - very low barrier to entry/usefulness.
I think that’s why Lemmy was able to take off so fast. It relies on community-level coordination, rather than every individual user having to make their own choice to switch, and try to get all their followers/followees to switch. So even if Meta did add a community-style mode, I don’t think it’d eat into the Lemmy userbase. It is hard to be sure though, and I respect the choices of those instances that have blocked/defederated.
Mastodon admins have a harder decision to make I think - there’s an opportunity to get very quick growth by effectively adding a lot more followable users/content. A bunch of people don’t like Meta/Facebook, but want to follow their friends, and so they may use Mastodon to do that, which could get a lot more people to move to “real” fediverse apps/sites like Mastodon. I know a lot of people that are on Threads now, and I’m looking forward to being able to follow them from Mastodon, rather than being forced to get Threads to keep up to date with what they’re working on.
I seriously doubt this is a good faith effort by meta to be a part of the fediverse. Give this article a read. https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
UPDATE: Those rumours have been confirmed as at least one Mastodon admin, kev, from fosstodon.org, has been contacted to take part in an off-the-record meeting with Meta. He had the best possible reaction: he refused politely and, most importantly, published the email to be transparent with its users. Thanks kev!
kev should’ve accepted the meeting to see if they could infer the intent…
“Off the record” largely implies that an NDA would be involved, considering “confidential information that should not be shared with others.”
No fences up my ass here, I didn’t jump so quickly to lemmy to be immediately joined to fucken Facebook. Like. At all. I’d bet a quick poll would speak loudly
Fuck Facebook, and fuck anyone that argues on their behalf.
I’m using Connect for Lemmy. And it has a function to add a tag or flare.
I’m tagging people who shill for meta, so that they will be forever recognized by the app as a meta cock sucker.
I hate to say this opinion would be minority even on Lemmy. People value convenience over anything else
even Lemmy
Do you even hear yourself? You’re commenting this over a post on the second biggest instance banning Threads?
I dont think you’ve taken into account what people in lemmy value the most.
Their principles. They mostly joined lemmy because one of their principle is against big corp controlling us for their own purpose.
That’s why threads is being blocked preemptively. Because they are corpo. Now compare that to exploding heads instance. The slowness of blocking another instance because of hate speech and bigotry. It’s because exploding heads issue does not or barely touched most lemmy peoples principle trigger. They allowed it to exist first for a long time before even considering of blocking it
for real, i’m not here because of convenience. it’s pretty inconvenient, actually.
i willingly give enough away to corporate overlords as it is… this is one of the occasions where i choose to not… despite the inconvenience.
Defeding breaks Fediverse principles. People who want to defed meta don’t belong here.
I tagged you as “meta shill”. Now whenever I see your post I’ll know you work for meta.
Thanks for revealing yourself.
These are very good news, I just hope more instances beyond lemmy.ml do so too.
Why is this good news exactly? Doesn’t this just mean that people who want to see content from Threads will be driven to that app instead? Why not allow Lemmy users to see Threads content without them actually having to support Meta?
https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
this article here gives a pretty good rundown of the likely intent of any sort of federated integration with any meta product, with examples of the same thing happening twice before with other technologies.
supporting it puts them in a position to “help” it… as they “help” they implement new closed source features… then drop support.
much of the growth that would occur during the “support/help” phase would be on their proprietary iteration and would not benefit the fediverse.
the trajectory would likely be co-opting the fediverse, obscuring their service from the fediverse, while building their services behind closed doors, and then dropping support.
they’re recognizing the fediverse as a reasonable competitor, and this is a move intended to kill it.
I spent the last few days almost literally under a rock and… what the hell is Threads and why is it everywhere?
Its Meta’s (Facebook) attempt at Twitter. Given how much Twitter is shitting the bed as well as Metas ability to push a new platform via their other channels, it has exploded overnight gaining millions of users almost instantly.
Well that makes sense. It’s easy to gain millions of followers when you own Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp. You just advertise to those users. Same reason that Google+ got 200 million users at it’s height. The trick is keeping them engaged and being better than the alternatives.
The new Twitter clone made by Zuck(meta/facebook.)
Meta’s Twitter clone. The smart thing they did was convert over Instagram accounts, so there’s a ton of semi-famous people on already. It’s got a ton of attention in the past two days, just for being Twitter sans Elon.
What were you doing to almost literally be under a rock? I’m intrigued
Spent most of the days hiking and biking in the mountains.
So you were literally ON a rock? Ok, that’s close enough 😁
“I spent the last few days almost literally under a rock and…”
Stone!
Facebook equivalent of Twitter (an underwhelmingly simplified description). I am not a fan of Meta but I’m a fan of competition in any market so even though I have no plans to use Threads I’m glad it exists as yet another option to prevent one single platform from being “the” platform.
Happy with this.
Yes.
Looking forward to Lemmy.world pushing the block button when it comes to it…
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They wont. You need to swap instances now that lemmy.world bent the knee to meta.
LW admins: "Watching Like A hawk, with our fingers on the block button.”
You: OmG fUKKiN kNeeLeRs!
You’re linking your own post about assuming what the admins in .world have done as if it’s definitive proof. After a definitive statement is made one way or the other, then you can start freaking out. Until then, just stop it with the conspiratorial garbage.
I disagree strongly with your assessment and find your characterization of a fellow Lemmy users opinions as “garbage” to be distasteful.
The .world admins inaction, and refusal to provide any communication at all on the situation despite half a dozen treads and hundreds of comments of users seeking clarification speaks volumes about the admins intent and is frankly disrespectful to the needs of the. world user community.
Meta is a known bad actor creating real harm in the world. Associating with people like that is perilous. In a dangerous situation, it is often wiser to take proactive action than to wait around and just “see what happens”.
I find your hyperbolic outrage over nothing “distasteful” and “disrespectful”. Go to another instance if you feel so strongly instead of trying to rile up some sort of revolt against the admins as if that would accomplish anything.
I’m just replacing the ok part of my deleted comment, but nothing more than the part about facebook supporting genocide. Facebook/meta encourages genocide by allowing posts to stay active and other things. That’s a big part of why anti meta guys are so serious.
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You are a citizen of a western nation. You are complicit in a wide assortment of genocides. I’m literally accusing you of genocide. This isn’t hyperbolic in the slightest.
This is hilariously transparent and bad faith on your part.
“Okay then, that was always allowed”
There is no indication that they never will de-federate from Meta.
All they have said is rather than shutting the stable before the horse bolts, they are actually waiting for the horse to get in the stable first and then address if the door needs closing.
There really is no need to either defederate from meta, or make that decision right now anyway
Have a read in that link and you can see some conversation about it. Meta is a known evil, waiting for more proof is unneeded when you can just look into their history. There are links in that link. It’s just a cover to slide +1 step towards allowing meta to control what we talk about.
The best argument I heard to defederate and have noting to do with Meta is this; this is the company that had/has a platform where hate, disinformation and lies have created a divide in society, several older generations were ‘socially engineered’ to start to think differently, more absolute and right wing. In short, Meta has a platform known for causing division amongst countrymen and families.
Pre-emptive nuking is what is needed, followed by some DDT thrown over it for good measure. This needs to stop. This is not a technical decision, this is a social one in order to try and save us from that shitshow FB/Zuck/Meta gave us.
I immediately created an account.
