A blog of another website’s report on what reddit users wrote.
Nice.
Maybe I am just out of touch with the what the majority thinks, but this is honestly surprising. I am very glad to hear it, but yeah, I didn’t expect this reaction. Maybe from us Linux folks who just like reiterate the FOSS sentiments in protest, but not this. It’s refreshing.
They pulled all their info from a reddit thread, though. Even though it was a Windows 11 sub, reddit tends to have more polarized opinions than most.
This is like staying in an abusive relationship and then complaining about how abusive their partner is. Get the fuck out of there. Linux works like a charm. OK, now come at me with your bullshit excuses of “Linux bad” “mah games”, “my Adobe” blah blah blah. Staying in this abusive relationship is what makes microshit what it is.
Some don’t realize it’s an abusive relationship, because they never saw anything else. Or they are addicted (let’s call it Adobe drug or certain games drug). But these are the minority. Most people simply don’t care.
BTW just for the lolz, in 2010 I predicted that we would 10 years later (in 2020) have probably 30% market share on Linux desktop. Boy I was off.
My relationship with my Linux installation was disfunctional in its own way. It was that partner that went into a meltdown when presented with any new, slightly complicated situation that was outside of its extremely limited comfort zone. I guess that works for people that have the time and patience to hold its hand and convince it that it can actually do everything. But Linux definitely isn’t suitable for all people in all situations.
Distro dependent, and hardware dependent. Some have a great experience OOTB
That’s the correct answer. I run endeavourOS, and it’s even considered a “terminal distro”. Set it up once and never had any major issues after that. I’ve used Debian testing for like 2 years before that, and oh my god, that fucker was solid af. I literally had 0 issues. Like nothing. The thing just worked all the time. Fedora was the same for me.
That is kind of the problem with Linux though. I definitely had hardware-distro compatibility issues, and I get how for some people, trying out a dozen different distros to find the one that works best for them is a lot of fun, and that’s totally valid. It’s just not a good fit for everyone. I think fans of Linux can overestimate its stability, ease of use, and suitability for all use-cases. It’s right for some people, but not everyone.
Yep, to me there are two groups that linux works well for (at home)
- tinkerer type who likes new tech.
- completely computer/ tech illiterate type ( like my wife or mom)
In the 2 category if they just need a computer for netflix, browsing, email and zoom calls you set them up with a stable diatro and it works the same every day with no windows surprises.
Yep, I agree with that breakdown. It’s the people in the middle: tech literate enough to need their computer to do a lot, but not sufficiently interested in tinkering to spend time arguing with their OS, that are often better off using Windows or MacOS.
Unfortunately Linux does not “work like a charm” and you need a fucking degree in command line to use it because that’s the way Linux developers and users like it.
This was back in 1765. The world has changed since then. I hardly ever touch the terminal. That’s another bullshit story some people tell you.
You’re lying.
Lol. I am not. Try it out for yourself. If you run a “works out of the box” distro, you’ll not need to touch the terminal, unless you choose to. Try Linux mint, fedora, zorin OS, elementary OS, Ubuntu, pop os… Etc. On those, you literally won’t need to touch the terminal for your day to day work. Everything works.
For real. Literally yesterday, reboot my computer and Nvidia drivers that had worked fine the day before no longer functioned resulting in my screen resolution being reduced and unchangeable.
Had to run a few commands to fix it but they are not obvious to me as a new-ish Linux user. Something about dkms being a dependency but not configured?
To recover, I had to:
sudo apt purge nvidia-*
sudo apt autoremove
sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
sudo rm -rf /var/lib/dkms/nvidia/
sudo apt install nvidia-dkms-550
(Reinstall Nvidia 550 drivers)
Why did I have to do all this? I ask that rhetorically, but Id like to know so I can understand what went wrong. Linux is non-trivial and people who deny that are not seeing things clearly. Then again, triviality of use isn’t particularly the most salient to me. Rather, it’s a mixture of is there enough compatibility to what I use my desktop for, is it reasonably easy to use for most tasks, and does it give me the freedom I want for the device.
I want to switch to Linux, but I honestly don’t know how/where to even start or the proper way to even ask.
I asked once on a Linux forum when the whole Cortana debacle happened, and I was called a moron or sent a link to “Linux from scratch”…which was definitely above my technical knowledge at the time. I’ve been scared to post on Linux communities ever since lol
Asking stuff like that is always a good idea, IMO. It could be the difference between a successful Linux install and a very expensive paperweight.
… Don’t ask me how to install it, though. I’ve only tried Ubuntu as a dual-boot, and that was several years ago.
Oh absolutely. Looking back I probably asked in a hardcore Linux enthusiast community (no fault to them, we all get tired of our parents/siblings/coworkers asking us to “fix the wif”)
I just don’t know where the Linux-noob safe spaces are. Is Lemmy’s Linux community one?
I recommend taking a look at this Linux gaming wiki guide about getting started. It is geared towards gaming, but even if that is not your primary focus there is a lot of really useful tips and steps to take for anyone trying to switch to Linux. If you have some other questions you can shoot me a DM, I’m by no means an expert but I’ve been using Linux for around 4 years now so I like to think I’m at least moderately experienced!
Thanks for the link, I’ll take a look at the guide over the weekend! Someone already mentioned Linux Mint as a starter, but if I have any questions I’ll definitely take you up on the DM offer!
Yeah whatever that forum was sounds kinda toxic, Linux from Scratch is like, notoriously one of the most complicated Linux installs there is so that wasn’t even bad advice, just straight trolling. Sadly there’s a few places like that that are hostile to newcomers because they’ve heard the same questions asked a lot and see that as a fault of the user, instead of remembering how it was when they first switched to Linux as well.
I’d highly +1 to giving Linux Mint a go, it’s designed to be very similar to Windows layout (specifically Windows 7) to make a lot of things more familiar for someone switching over, and their forums are some of the most beginner friendly I’ve seen.
This install guide is pretty good for it, not making it complex, images to walk through the process https://itsfoss.com/install-linux-mint/
If you prefer videos, I just gave this one a watch through and it looks good to follow, just download the latest version instead of the one downloaded in the video (current is 21.3 “Virginia”, though following the video should put you at that one anyway), the install process is the same https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0EBueufP0o
Others will also likely recommend other Linux distros to start with and that’s fine too, whichever one seems the most easy or comfortable for you is fine to go with. I like to point people towards Ubuntu-based ones like Linux Mint because there’s a large community around those so you can find answers to any issues from searches easier.
Edit: Changed video to a more up-to-date and easy to follow one that also gives some post-install advice (though a bit geared towards gaming pc use). Speaking of gaming, on https://www.protondb.com/ you can type your games in the searchbox to see how well they run on Linux. Generally if something is verified/playable on Steam Deck it’ll run great on pc/laptop Linux as well.
Edit 2: As others have recommended in the thread too, it’s good to try it out in a virtual machine first to see if you like it. For Windows, Virtualbox and VMware Workstation Player (not pro) are some I know. If you go full install on your PC, make sure to backup all important files and write a Windows install usb as well and make sure it can boot if you can just for the chance something goes wrong, so you can easily get back to a working PC with no risk
Thank you so much for writing this out, I really appreciate it! Looks like I’ll be installing Mint on my old laptop this weekend to see how I fair.
From what I found, Lemmy is much better in this regard. I’ve gotten lots of helpful answers here, so give it a go! There is also a ton of tutorials on YouTube, I recommend something like this for beginners.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. We do have some assholes on our forums. But from experience, I can assure you that people on Lemmy are much nicer. Also, Linux is now so very easy to install. All you need is to get your ISO and burn it onto a USB stick then boot from that USB from the Bios. Linux even has a “live environment” where you get to try it and see if your hardware works. Don’t worry too much about what “distro” to install for now. They’re all the same except minor differences and how often they get updated. Your only mission is to choose which desktop environment you like. If you like how macos looks like, choose gnome. If you like windows, choose KDE plasma, if you like a windows 7ish look, choose xfce or cinnamon. If you want the easiet way to burn an ISO to a USB, then check out Fedora media writer. It even downloads the iso for you. Just stick your USB into your pc and launch the app and go from there. It does everything for you. It’s available for all OSs. Fedora comes with both KDE and gnome and others. I’d stick with the distros that are the easiest to install and where everything works out of the box. Fedora and Linux mint are the ones I’d choose from. And also, now YouTube is full of amazing Linux channels like this man Jay Lacroix. He is freaking awesome and has so many videos that will help you. Here is his channel. He even made a video the other day on how to dual boot with windows. If you have any questions at all, please post them in the Linux community here on Lemmy and we will all help you.
Thank you for the links! Someone else has also mentioned Mint, and I love the Win7 interface, so that’s probably what I’ll be playing around with.
Of course. Also, try it in a virtual machine or on a spare laptop if you got one, before you commit to it.
From what I found, Lemmy is much better in this regard. I’ve gotten lots of helpful answers here, so give it a go! There is also a ton of tutorials on YouTube, I recommend something like this for beginners.
Thank you, I’ll take a look at the video and at the Lemmy Linux communities!
It is getting better but there are still alot of things you just can’t do on Linux.
Like for my work we have alot of specialized software that is only for Windows. Sure I might be able to get it working under Linux but what do you think will happen if I need get software Support for this software? They will say i am using an unsupported OS and hang up.
And for my home, there is so many anti cheat software that refuses to work on Linux or potentially get you banned.
Linux has come a very long way in the last 5 years but there is still alot of situations the abusive relationship is your only option.
For work is understandable. I use nothing but windows at work because work requires it. I don’t give a shit if they used a potato, as long as I get my paycheck. At home, though, sorry my friend, I won’t ever understand no matter how many excuses you give me. If a company doesn’t want to support my os then to fucking bad, I won’t give them my money, and will move on to the ones that do.
I won’t ever understand no matter how many excuses you give me. If a company doesn’t want to support my os then to fucking bad, I won’t give them my money.
Sure the is commendable but end of the day it is what is important to you. If my group of friends is playing a game and that game isn’t supported on Linux. That affect me a lot more then it would affect the company.
I swear Microsoft has had this weird obsession with digital assistants for decades now and users just don’t want it every time.
They all do. Google search is one big primitive Digital Assistant. Apple’s Siri is less functional than its predecessor Voice Control. Amazon’s product recommendation algorithm and Alexa are also successful digital assistants.
Meanwhile the YouTube algorithm, Netflix, and Metas recommendations are notoriously frustrating, pumping out irrelevant recommendations and obfuscating constant that you actually want to consume.
Microsoft haven’t had any effective Digital Assistants to date and must they feel like they are being left behind. Their attempts to emulate successful product from other companies are either unnoticeably irrelevant or laughably bad. Even the terrible content recommendations of Netflix and YouTube keep people hooked.
Their obsession is they see how much people use and like Siri, Google Assistant, and Alexa, and they have employees who have worked at Apple, Google, and Amazon, so they know exactly how much data collection those services do. Their obsession is that They’re behind in the market and would like that sweet sweet money
I put Copilot on MY taskbar —Microsoft
Exactly. It’s Microsoft ffs. They don’t care what consumers want. The only time they do anything truly beneficial is when the EU makes them.
The only time they do anything truly beneficial is when the EU makes them.
Except when they made programming languages
I mean sure, c# is better than java, but c# also makes you dependant on MS and all their shenanigans. Java is free of such burdens. Oracle sure is a dependency, but you’re free pick another vendor or fork your own.
Of course they prioritise Windows and Azure, but still, .NET works on Linux well, and it’s licensed under MIT, so you’re allowed to fork too.
But on the other hand I won’t waste my time defending Microsoft here, because they have people for doing it.
They also created TypeScript which is a huge improvement over js imo. And with C# you can use Mono, so you really aren’t locked into MS automatically.
Plus, they made VS Code free. I hate MS but they do make solid tools for developers.
Really trying not to be that “use Linux” person, but it’s easy to underestimate the impact this has on user perception. It was communicated to me by these actions that this isn’t my computer. It kept pissing me off, so I went with something that respects me.
I think Microsoft is okay with that because their operating system isn’t a main profit center anymore. It’s cloud stuff.
Over the years, Microsoft has been quietly taking away control from the users.
There’s been a transition from normal settings that you can do whatever you want with, to “yes / remind me later” settings that Microsoft uses to badger you until you submit, to finally just no setting at all - just quiet compulsory data collection and surveillance; with various bits of mysterious software that you can’t uninstall or disable or halt - because you’re not the admin - Microsoft is.
It wasn’t always this way.
It’s not even good for non technical users. Microsoft takes admin responsibility, but then they manage it poorly by applying updates that haven’t been properly tested and using your system as the guinea pig.
I’ve seen this happen to family. Forced update comes in, breaks system.
The Win10 machine I got in 2020 will be my last Windows computer now that gaming on Linux is basically solved.
Can you tell me how gaming on Linux is solved? It’s the only reason I use windows still.
In my case, many of my games are purchased through Steam, which automatically handles Linux compatibility for most games. The product page of the game lists the compatible operating systems as SteamOS, Linux, or SteamPlay. You can also set up proton directly for other games, which is a fork of Wine that has really good gaming support these days.
I wouldn’t call it a completely solved problem. It’s always possible to find games that just won’t work, but most of them do. Even most DRM works. If the DB covers the games you care about then you’re golden.
Start with protondb
People have talked about proton and how it can play practically everything these days (I even got it working with games that don’t work with modern windows) but if you play multiplayer games with anti-cheat, here’s a useful site https://areweanticheatyet.com/
i know you hate to hear this, but you wont get rid of these shenanigans unless you move to linux.
proprietary software devs will always be looking for more ways to monetize you.
yeah, ive been meaning to switch, but it doesnt really compare in sheer quantity of little crappy things stacked on top of one another.
i think the main thing though, is that i can switch away from ubuntu and still be on same ol linux. and switching the rare stuff i dont like is as easy as doing it once and never worrying again.
Canonical has nothing to do with Arch Linux, so I don’t see what’s the issue.
And I don’t see why Arch is relevant to the discussion. My point is that software being non-proprietary is not a guarantee for preventing fuckery like Microsoft’s. Profit-maximizing companies will maximize their profits, proprietary software or not. Canonical, which sells a non-proprietary Linux distribution, is an example of this.
I am on Linux. I just posted about what Windows users are saying.
oh, i reckon most people in this nice little corner of the internet are communist programmer atheists using linux and firefox, and are likely some flavour of queer.
Ya got me on the atheist and firefox thing
For the average user this is like a minor annoyance like once a month. Not worth switching OS’s over.
There’s been tens of dozens of annoyances over the last decade.
Literally not even boiling the frog at this point, the frog is fried.
Yeah, it’s a minor annoyance… another minor annoyance on top of all the others. And another personal data leak (or siphon) to go with all the others.
This on its own is not worth switching OSs for - but as a piece of a larger picture it’s yet another reason to consider it. And for some people this may be what tips the scales in their evaluation.
It’s a boil the frog scenario. Windows users will always cope with more and more shit thrown at them.
And Linux fanboys will get up on their high horses while googling how to fix their driver issues.
Certainly better than throwing a perfectly working machine because Microsoft won’t support it 🤷♂️
This may have been true historically but I’m not sure it still holds up. I switched to Linux Mint as my regular OS a while back and the only driver issue I’ve had was that the installer didnt properly install my wifi card’s proprietary driver (which was working during live boot from usb), so I had to tether to my phone to download the driver through the driver manager. It even installed Nvidia drivers just fine.
It might still be an issue for more barebones or heavily customisable systems but I’m fairly certain nobody’s recommending people switch to Arch for their first Linux experience.
Driver issues usually only happen if the manufacturer doesn’t provide a Linux driver. Usually it is best to do some research to ensure the hardware will work before purchasing. Otherwise, the driver usually is included with the kernel so it is plug and play even for things that require manually downloading and installing on the Windows side.
Also, I’m not trying to get on any high horse. I personally think Linux is a great alternative to Windows and would love for everyone to at least try it out and see if it is right for them. It could save them tons of headaches and open the door to a new skill set, or just to breathe new life into that old laptop in your closet gathering dust. Linux has a lot of great uses that aren’t possible with Windows. Give peas a chance.
Oh, I use both, I was just poking fun. That being said, I unfortunately I don’t feel comfortable trying to get my parents on Linux… or even friends.
Most people just want things to work and won’t do any sort of troubleshooting themselves. “It just works” is worth the intrusiveness that comes with Windows.
It’s a useful feature but it doesn’t need space on my taskbar or a special button on my keyboard. That’s just marketing BS. The same as with the huge search bar, because I can just press the start button and start typing and it does the same.
Unfortunately Microsoft is incredibly bad at marketing. They generally succeed only at pissing users off. Now they’re doing the same again with copilot and dumping a ton of totally different products under the same name.
As long as it’s a easily toogled off as the search bar is, I don’t mind.
Them getting rid of the ability to have different windows of the same kind with full title bar next to each other IMHO is a much bigger pain.
I wanted to swap to Pop!OS a few months ago, but since i’m an Nvidia user, I am waiting until Wayland plays nice with Nvidias drivers regarding explicit sync and everything gets rolled into Pop!OS.
I always was a Windows user because games, but with ProtonGE the “games” argument started falling flat, and MS is getting more and more intrusive. I do like VRR and Multimonitor setups tho, so X seemed like a poor choice, and Wayland/Nvidia is just not ready yet.
For everyone in the same boat, just keep an eye on this link: Explicit GPU Synchronization for DRI3, Present, and Xwayland
Looks like we’re going to have to wait until May 15th for NVIDIA’s Beta drivers (555.xx) to add support for the recently merged explicit sync wayland protocol, but at least progress is being made to finally get these issues fixed.
If Wine on wayland were ready we wouldn’t depend on that merge request since the major compositors have already implemented the protocol, but I’m hopeful it won’t take long for XWayland to support it too since all threads were resolved and CI is already passing there.
This article gives a nice overview of the current situation: Explicit Sync Wayland Protocol Merged, Wayland Protocols 1.34 released
God I want to move to Linux, but I had some problems with games unfortunately. They would run fine, but had stutters. And some of them didn’t run, granted it was from an “unlicenced” source.
Still I’m gonna try again, I have to succeed eventually.
Amusingly enough, the steam deck has made a lot of the state of this art get better. Usually if you mount the ISO and then tell Lutris to install it, it’ll work.
O&O shutup 10.
oo software
The fact that owner of the device has to do tbis and it resets after major updates is clown world.
People let this bullshit get way too far.
Have Windows users ever wanted a single thing they added since XP? It seems like every time I upgrade they add some cluttery nonsense I can’t get rid of. I moved to Windows 10 for software compatibility, and I still hate it.
They added a lot of things since XP that I enjoy, like window management, multiple desktops. I don’t know if they were specifically requested by windows users, but contrary to your opinion they are welcome changes. Users don’t always know what they want.
Eh fair, to me that’s just severely outweighed by the bloatware and needing third party apps to customize the UI how I used to like. It feels uglier and bulkier and like they took away a ton of good functions.
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There was a free version of virtual desktops already available.
To me that proves that the feature was in demand. That’s why it’s included now.
Have Windows users ever wanted a single thing they added since XP?
The new terminal for example is a rather neat improvement over the old command prompt, especially with the integration of Linux systems. Winget also is rather nice. Just two examples. So yeah with all the valid criticism Microsoft deserves for quite a bit of policies, I don’t think your hyperbole holds up.
I actually thought Microsoft was doing pretty well 2015-2020, then these past few years some of their decisions have felt really anti user
Microsoft, forever and always, will keep trying to pivot Windows to whatever they think the Next Big Thing is going to be, and then fuck it up every time. They tried to pivot to Mobile (Windows Mobile), then Tablets (8, 8.1), then digital assistants (Win 10 Cortana), then 3D (Win 10 Paint3D, 3D Objects folder) and AR (why a bunch of Win10 got the semitransparent glass aesthetic), now AI. Maybe they got ahead of the curve enough to be the “leader” in “AI” this time, but that doesn’t make it a Good Operating System.
They were doing ok. But the github thing and the 11 thing and the edging and now this - I can’t wait to buy a machine that can run windows virtualised. I need it for my work apps, but this virt thing has been a dream of mine for a long time. Compartmentalization
I hated them since Windows 8. Ughh. Was the year of my Linux desktop. I still keep a Win7, WinXP and DOS/Win98 machine around but that’s it for me.
github thing?
Bought github, doing shitty ai crap with it etc, forcing logins
How do YOU edge?
Step one: start Chroming. Eventually you get so high (kill enough brain cells) that you chrome with blue paint instead. That is called Edging.
Microsoft edges me.
It’s perfect timing too. Right as Linux becomes an extremely strong competitor (feature wise, not market share yet) they decide to enshitify more than they already were and decide to fuck the user. It made me leave about a year ago, and it’s been amazing since.
Honestly the steam deck came out at the perfect time
Year of the Linux desktop!
This is why they are doing it. They fear that Linux/MacOS/ChromeOS is eating their lunch. The problem is that their approach to preventing anyone else from eating their lunch is to make Shit Sandwiches.
It’s not clippy and if it replaces the pointless error diagnosis system currently running I’m all for it. I’ve had no issues with it as a product in ides just basically advanced spell check.
I’m surprised Windows users even want windows 🤷
i have it on mine and i actually use it. i don’t see what’s the big deal; it’s tucked over in the far bottom right of the screen out of the way and it’s not intrusive.
Screen corners are prime real estate. They have infinite size beyond the screen, allowing you to quickly fling the pointer to them. It’s a big reason things like app menus or the Mac’s Mission Control are accessed by the screen corners.
That’s all cool and good. What Microsoft needs to be doing is not adding shit to people’s PCs without their consent and make it easier to remove them (preferably during installation)
i mean i had to go in and add copilot to my taskbar manually and i can go into taskbar settings at any time and turn it off.
This is beautifully familiar.
Am I seeing too many similarities between how Twitter/X was taken over and singlehandedly being irreversibly ruined?
While Windows is stubbornly becoming increasingly user-adversarial (advertising, constant intrusive updates, forced transition from your favorite browser to Microsoft Edge, etc.) and unintuitive (sometimes even counter intuitive) interface design, placement and inaccessible settings.
Well, delighting in schadenfreude, I won’t complain. Microsoft is inadvertently helping me help transition many friends, family and colleagues to various flavors of Linux systems, namely Linux Mint (whichever desktop they prefer) and/or Pop!OS most of the time, but also occasionally Fedora or a particular flavor of Ubuntu.
I never recommend Arch or rolling release systems or immutable systems to first time Linux user so as to preemptively avoid additional layers of complexity, learning curve, downtime and troubleshooting.
I am looking to move to linux, again, due to ALL the amazing work Steam is putting into gaming on linux. Much of my flat game library works on the test laptop, my streaming software has linux native install. The 1 issue holding me back at this point is my OG Vive screens not turning on, tho the laptop monitor shows my VR environment. Once I get over that hurdle my days of windows will be almost over.
Ever since Nadella took over it’s been going down to shit progressively
It’s always been a pile of shit
Windows 7 was solid and didn’t treat you like an ad revenue.
@SuperSpecialNickname @Andromxda yep one of the best version of windows
That last version that was truly great. If it wasn’t unsupported I’d still be using it.
@SuperSpecialNickname I still miss the aero theme. It was the best.
