I like how some people are claiming americans are aware of this lol
If most americans were sufficiently aware and organizing against it accordingly (if they’re not organizing, they’re not aware enough) the imperialist gov would already have been toppled.
I’m American and am aware of this. Explain that!
Some zoomers and some millennials know it. Boomers don’t know or actually think it’s a good thing, with some rare exceptions.
Either way your take is extremely juvenile and simplistic. There’s a lot more at play with revolutions than people knowing their country did something bad. It takes a lot more than that to get people off their ass, with very few exceptions historically, and even those exceptions are usually led by rich people looking out for themselves.
People need to have their own livelihoods threatened before they do anything. And there are always power systems in place that deliberately make it hard for people to organize.
Power. Your fantasy assumes the weight of mere knowing outweighs the power wielded against the citizenry. No revolution started with the whole citizenry waking up. You know why. If not, read more and be less disingenuous.
No revolution started with the whole citizenry waking up
Obviously not everyone lmao.
What every revolution has had is people informing others about what the issue is (often by pamphlets, news, etc), what needs to be done, and organizing. The vast majority of successful revolutions are only those that had organized revolutionaries.
I like how some people are claiming americans are aware of this lol
What every revolution has had is people informing others about what the issue is
If most americans were sufficiently aware and organizing against it accordingly
The vast majority of successful revolutions are only those that had organized revolutionaries.
OK. I see your messaging is at odds with itself and you understand the assignment.
You got top spot on this here memetic sharing of ideas. Which message for the Americans at home who by virtue of reading you on Lemmy are closer to you than not?
Surprised it’s taken this long for people to grasp it.
We control the world’s reserve currency, and hold the ability to fry any country’s economy via economic sanctions whenever we want. We have the largest military in the world and that military is set up for the purpose of invasion. Yeah, China has a massive navy, but their ships are tiny, most likely for the purpose of defending their oceans and eventually taking Taiwan. We on the other hand have more carrier ships than anyone else, all for the purpose of being able to flex our might on anyone in the world.
People used to say that we attempted to police the world. I don’t hear it nearly as much anymore, but it’s accurate. We throw our weight around. We’re the world’s bully.
Yes, and to large extent NATO countries love to join in on the bullying. Britain and Australia jumped right in with the Iraq invasion for example.
America is everthing Americans claim China and Russia to be.
I’ve always thought that if you switch America and Russia/China in most events, it would better fit the narratives.
For example:
America brokered peace between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
America opened up factories in Afghanistan to provide jobs for the locals who are recovering from a war with China.
America is supporting their ally in Syria and combating terrorists supported by Russia.
Russia went to war with Iraq and killed a million people and destroyed all their infrastructure.
The incarceration rate in China is the highest in the world.
China accused America of spying on them with a weather balloon.
Russia overthrew the Libyan government, spiraling the wealthiest African country into a civil war.
Like seriously, switch the stories around and it better fits the narrative we’re constantly being fed. With the view that libs have of Russia, China and America, events would literally have to play out like this if their view was correct.
America is an endless expansionist that has illegally invaded multiple neighbours by force while calling it a “military exercise”.
America has a semi dictator that gave themselves full unlimited power after being elected once and has since then meddled in every election in order to win
Hmm, not really
America is an endless expansionist that has illegally invaded multiple neighbours by force while calling it a “military exercise”.
Yes?
America has a semi dictator that gave themselves full unlimited power after being elected once and has since then meddled in every election in order to win
The US literally overthrew their democracy, and then when elections took place within a bourgeois ‘democracy’ interfered in those too. Russia post-overthrow of USSR could never have become a democracy, the US wouldn’t have allowed it.
Yes?
Which do you think applies? The US hasn’t added any territory lately that I’m aware of.
The “territory” you’re looking for is called NATO. Its members totally join on their own free will, please ignore the regime changes that happen almost always before a country joins.
The only things forcing countries to join NATO are the aggressive invasions of countries like Russia.
They either get invaded (see Crimea, Chechnya, Georgia, …) or join the defensive alliance of NATO so they get to keep at least a semblance of individualism.
NATO wouldn’t be needed if Russia kept to itself.
If you want forced regime changes, just look at all the territories before they were invaded by Russia.
Ah yes, famous invasions during the 90s. Where NATO expanded a shitload after promising not to.
Also your knowledge of these events is lackluster. Gerogia attacked Russia, not the other way around (one couldsay Russia over reacted, but that does not change the fact who initiated hostilities). Chechnya was a civil war (a country can’t invade itself). Crimea seceeded. So all of your examples are wrong.
Oh and Russia asked to join NATO in the eaely 2000s. Got denied.
IF you want to go further back it gets even better. NATO was founded before the Warsaw Treaty Org, the latter was founded after the USSR asked to join NATO and was denied.
You are correct that NATO is a anti soviet/anti russian alliance, but not for the reasons you think.
Do you believe history is driven by people and ideas, or material conditions and the interests that arise from them?
It’s an international poker game and everyone is cheating. To see politics through a campist lens helps no one.
Acknowledging that the US has been the leader of the imperial core — the countries that have been colonizing the rest of the world for 500 years now — since WW2 is the realistic, materialist view.
Only difference now is that it’s changed form to mainly the economic subjugation (neocolonialism) of “former” colonies through unequal exchange under capitalism rather than direct military subjugation — though the US still has a major actual settler colony committing a genocide in Palestine right now.
Any country that tries to escape this system (by nationalizing its resources to prevent extraction by unequal exchange, usually by establishing a socialist state) is sanctioned (DPRK, Vietnam in the past, Zimbabwe etc), embargoed (Cuba), overthrown (Chile, Burkina Faso etc), or invaded (Vietnam, Libya, Korea, etc).
“Imperial Core” is from Star Wars and sounds like a cringe LARP.
Well, the empire from Star Wars was based on the US empire after all, and the rebels were based on the Viet Cong.
That’s partially true, the Empire was based on inspiration from the US, Nazi Germany, and USSR. The rebels are of course the Viet Cong.
Citation needed on that USSR claim, Lucas has only, to my knowledge, spoken of the USSR with respect to the inspiration he took from their film industry. He’s outright stated that the Empire is the US and the Rebels the Viet Cong, plus there are the obvious allusions to the Nazis with Stormtroopers and the color of the Empire’s unirorms, but to my knowledge nothing connecting to the USSR.
Return of the Jedi special edition commentary.
Believe it or not, Lucas is capable of finding both positives and negatives about both the US and the USSR.
Most of the aesthetic of Empire architecture is inspired by brutalist Soviet architecture, and ceremony for the Emperor’s arrival was inspired by October Revolution Day military parades.
The USSR was also a fascist dictatorship, the actual bureaucratic structure of the Galactic Empire much more closely resembles the USSR.
Edit: good points were made, it’s overly reductive to call the USSR a facist dictatorship
USSR
Thank god the “empire” funded and supported the rebels against the empire lmao
The Viet Cong are not the only rebels to have ever existed, the USSR is well known to use excessive military force against its own rebels.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union
It is literally from anti-colonial theory lmao
Was this theory developed after Star Wars was already released?
Even if it was, using media to explain ideas of politics isn’t new nor is it bad. Like how is using Star Trek or Star Wars or any other piece of media that the public is familiar with on a cultural level inherently a “Gotcha!” to an argument/debate?
“Hey this book that was taught in classrooms has some parallels to current events.” “Wow, you’re using your understandings of the world around you to make commentary? Weirdo.”
Everything you said can be true, and it can also still sound like a cringe LARP.
Reminder that the empire from Star Wars is a stand-in for the US, while the rebels represent the Viet Cong.
US military playing ‘The Imperial March’ from Star Wars on a loudspeaker while heading to Gaza
It’s a not uncommon theme in anime: some large imperialist/war nation or one associated with fire or occupying Japan.
It’s also worth noting that Japan had a history of imperialism and occupied a significant portion of the world around them not too long ago.
Japan has a pretty similar world view to us. I don’t know a lot about Japanese culture, but I think a lot of its similarities contribute to anime’s popularity in the US. We both have pretty rigid class structures, appreciate violence and capitalism and are enamored with technology.
I know that Avatar is American, perhaps I just wanted to air out a pet theory, however I think it’s good for us to explore some of these assumptions with art and stories.
I think most of us aren’t the baddies though.
Japan has a similar worldview to Americans because there’s been multiple points in history where we brute forced our ways on them, conveniently at times where their old ways were losing faith.
Forcing Japans borders open while they remained isolated with outdated weaponry, and the end of WW2.
Capitalism was drilled into their culture until it’s teeth sunk in and they had their economic boom.
Japan went from feudalism to an emerging modern industrialized state in what, 40 years? Industrial Revolution speedrun.
The irony of a diverse set of people from around the world talking about an American cartoon and in the same breath saying that American only knows war is not lost on me
The US cultural victory’d so hard that it’s hard to recognize it sometimes
Avatar is American, but it had fantastic cultural consultants.
To be fair Not all fire nation citizens are bad either
Usually when there’s a imperialistic government it’s very rarely every citizens fault
A comforting/not comforting thought
I sort of believe that the vast majority of whoever from wherever would happily get along, but we still have wars.
Yeah the fire nation has way more similarities to Imperial Japan than anyone else. Island nation industrializes before their neighbours and just starts taking over. Style of dress, the archesticure, the names of the characters, all give a Japan vibe way more than an American vibe. But maybe drinking tea in a ceremonial fashion is something that’s part of American culture that I wasn’t aware of.
But currently the US is protecting global trade from pirates and sending weapons to democracies defending themselves from authoritarian psychopaths, which to some people is exactly how the Fire Nation behaved in Avatar I guess.
We have stopped sending weapons to Ukraine but have continued sending weapons to Israel.
Nothing about what you describe as is cut and dry as you are describing it. The easiest way to protect global trade from pirates would be to stop using global trade to arm psychopaths.
So your solution is just to do whatever the psychopath Houthis tell us to do?
Neville Chamberlain tried a policy of appeasement, it didn’t work. And when you’re thinking that psychopaths that attack civilians working on a commercial cargo ship are the good guys, your world view is really messed up.
The guys trying to stop a genocide are the good guys. I do have some criticisms of them, but any actions that decrease the ability to carry out genocide is a net positive.
Is your point that the outcome justifies the means? I feel the need to point out that this statement is dangerous, and statements like it have been used to justify evil acts.
You know what else is dangerous? Giving a genocidal state more weapons.
What the fuck?
Nowhere in my statement did I defend giving Israel weapons, this is a position I am strongly against.
My point in writing that comment was to point out that using fascist rhetoric is bad, no matter who is saying it. I support the Palestinians, but I would not support dropping nukes on Israel. Stating that any means would be justified gives the other side ammunition to attack you (and others with similar views as you) with.
“Any means” is the same reasoning the USA used when nuking Japan. And it’s the same reasoning that is currently being used to kill innocent civilians in the Gaza strip.
Uneducated fuckwits thinking the u.s invented war.
I disagree. Most Americans know we are the fire nation/empire from Star Wars.
Well at least most people I know.
You forgot the important part
“And they’re proud of it”
It’s crazy how military families are so into being in the military, out how proud they are of being Marines, etc. They’re literally doing the governments dirty work.
The question is: why would they be proud of being marines?
I mean, marines are the cannon fodder in every alien invasion movie, so, with that knowledge, that military branch is composed of useless moving targets.
Propaganda. Lots and lots and lots of propaganda.
Propaganda about being the first line to get sacrificed in every alien invasion? Lol
I don’t know if you’ve lived in rural America, but I have, and the fast track to quasi-celebrity status out there is to join the Marines or get KIAd. Americans have been heavily propagandized about making the great and noble sacrifice to “defend the country”.
I live in south americA
Yeah, the US, particularly rural US, has been propagandized an absolutely ridiculous amount. Being seen to sacrifice or die for the empire is seen as a glorious thing both in and for your community.
So…sure we are the baddies, but it’s OK because America?
More like “we are the baddies, but the incredibly wealthy own the country and they want war, and none of us have to balls to start lopping off heads”
incredibly wealthy own the country
I wish people just said “the capitalist class”…
Makes it more obvious what the problem is and What Is To Be Done (working class revolution and overthrow).
Enlightened 40Kism, we know we are the bad guys, cause there are no good guys, just worse villians.
Tau?
Space Dawi
Most of the independent human systems doing just fine without the Imperium tyvm
Eldar
Some Necrons, maaaaybe. It’s hard to tell with them sometimes.
Hrud mostly seem to just want to be left alone.
A lot of aliens just chilling
Fun Fact: the Imperium doesn’t actually span most of the galaxy. Nor do they really “control” the area around their systems.
Because of how FTL works in 40k, some areas just aren’t accessible to them. There’s a full on insectoid empire called the Q’orl near Terra that they didn’t have access to or know about until the Warp currents shifted.
And apparently their technology is even enough to be a potential threat… And the Imperium learned this when they immediately tried to kill them, obviously
What is 40Kism?
In Warhammer 40K, the Imperium of Man are awful, but they’re the ‘good guys’ because they’re human, any every other species is even more awful and would wipe humanity out given the chance
Tau wouldn’t and doesn’t exterminate. On the other hand they may or may not brainwash their populace.
That is what new players/readers are told, sure.
Yes, that is the justification most Americans use; western chauvinism tells them that no matter how bad they are, the other places are worse. How many times on Lemmy do you see people say “America bad, but China or Russia or Iran would be worse (therefore we’re justified in facilitating massive bloodshed)?”
I’ve seen the former part of that sentiment on here, but I haven’t seen anyone use it as justification to go to war
It’s used to justify bombing Yemen, support the genocide in Palestine, escalating the proxy war against Russia, and starting one against China.
You can get a social democrat to acknowledge that every conflict America has supported since WWII has made make the world worse, and they’ll still insist that this time, it’s different.
And half of lemmy are worse than that.
…escalating the proxy war against Russia…
So, comrade, how much of Ukraine should surrender for about 6 years of “peace” with Russia?
The portions of Ukraine that Western Ukraine was shelling before the invasion.
The lines have hardly moved in a year, despite thousands more dead and millions more displaced. Every bomb we send is a bad day for someone, statistically mostly civilians. To send more bombs is to sacrifice more people, for the same geopolitical outcome.
Don’t think that’s what OP meant.
OP wants a fairy tail.
40K is just worst case Grimms.
No, not okay. The monkey puppet reaction.
We are not shocked to learn we are the bad guys. I never said it’s okay, I just disagree with the reaction meme to indicate we didn’t know it.
Not sure where you pulled “it’s okay because America” from my statement but no need to jump to conclusions and put words in peoples mouth.
He pulled it from nowhere because tankies are incapable of nuance, especially if you hold an even mildly dissenting opinion. You’re either with them or against them, there is no in-between. It’s ironic how much they share in common with actual fascists.
Finland.
Most people you know seem a lot more aware than the average American in my experience
I thought the Empire in Star Wars was supposed to be Third Reich Germany. They literally both have “stormtroopers.”
Originally i would agree but i am referencing how things are today as that’s what the meme is referencing.
If you asked Americans today if they are the rebels or the empire the folks I know concede that we are the empire. We are the ones going into other peoples home towns with military occupation.
Fair. I was mostly thinking about it from the perspective of what the writers had intended at the time.
We’re pretty dense, two critically acclaimed series and a couple shitty, live-action projects isn’t gonna cut it.
The non-KFC surface of the earth testifies to the fact.
We don’t want to be the arbiter we just kinda got stuck with it cause no one else was left. If you could all not kill each other for 50 years we would really appreciate it.
Everyone keeps arming bombers and shooting boats. This is kinda a no-no for us. Could ya not. We really don’t want to get involved in regional shit.
