In a video statement posted to social media, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he was grateful for the U.S. support Israel has received, but that the U.S. should not be withholding some weapons.
  • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.worldEnglish
    152·
    6 months ago

    I don’t understand his angle here. He clearly has some sort of agenda, but I haven’t figured it out. Maybe he’s betting that this will turn some Democrats and moderates against Biden? But that requires believing that Netanyahu is telling the truth, which I don’t think a lot of Israel supporters necessarily do.

    Either way, this is weird. Maybe he’s talking about the bombs that weren’t sent for Rafah? But getting pissed about one halted shipment out of everything they’ve been given is just fucking hilarious.

    My guess – he’s aware his support is dwindling, and he’s trying to salvage it by blaming everyone else. Or, he’s daring the US to stop all shipments, but that would probably destroy his remaining support too.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldEnglish
      18·
      6 months ago

      Israel’s modus operandi is throwing anyone that does not 100% obey their commands under the bus instantly. It keeps all their loyal dogs in check and lets them know the slightest amount of disobedience is not allowed. One can do everything israel asks for 100 years and the one time they step out of line they will fully get thrown under the bus.

      The question you should be asking here is what Joe Biden’s angle here is. Because Biden is still sending them 99% of the weapons. So apparently losing the election while israel is still committing Genocide.

  • WhatIsThePointAnyway@lemmy.worldEnglish
    6·
    6 months ago

    With climate change, the whole of the mid-East is going to be uninhabitable. All these countries are fighting over land that no one will be able to live on in the next 50 years or so. Humans are way too short sighted.

    And I say all these countries because Iran and Russia supports Hamas and America supports Israel.

    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.socialEnglish
      8·
      6 months ago

      I don’t mind supporting countries that actually need it but even if the IDF was completely ethical, and they’re not, they still wouldn’t need a single bullet of aid.

    • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.worldEnglish
      610·
      6 months ago

      I think we have an obligation to provide Iron Dome defensive munitions as long as there is threat of attack on Israel. Despite common opinion, there are plenty of innocent Israelis that are not behind Netanyahu or Zionism that deserve to live without being bombed, just like Palestinians.

      Edit: Those of you that paint all Israelis with one brush are no better than Netanyahu labeling all Palestinians as Hamas. Just sayin.

      • alcoholicorn@lemmy.mlEnglish
        83·
        6 months ago

        there are plenty of innocent Israelis

        That’s complicated. Would you have said we needed to continue supporting Apartheid South Africa’s military because there were innocent Boers?

        When the Israeli national project is ended, then sure we’ll have a responsibility to ensure Palestine respects the rights of all people living in its territory.

        • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.worldEnglish
          66·
          6 months ago

          Ask yourself. Were you an American citizen when when Trump enabled the sexual abuse of tens of thousands of immigrant children, or currently while Biden supports the Israeli genocide? Has your nation’s government ever acted in hostility against your interests? Are you complicit? Do you deserve protection from bombings?

          • Maeve@kbin.earth
            32·
            6 months ago

            I mean, distanced emotionally? Should we be judged and judgement meted out differently than we and our dubious allies judged and delivered judgement? I prefer peace, but we are a warmongering nation. I don’t want it to happen, but where I’m from, the saying goes, “if you keep picking, you’ll eventually get what you’re picking for.”

          • alcoholicorn@lemmy.mlEnglish
            43·
            6 months ago

            No, but also kinda? It’s complicated. If someone had the power to help those immigrant children escape, it would be silly to pretend they must endure the continuing injustice for fear they might hurt an “innocent” escaping the concentration camp.

            • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.worldEnglish
              54·
              6 months ago

              What power do Israelis have in uninstalling Netanyahu? They’re protesting in the tens of thousands to remove him. It’s doing nothing. He was elected prior to Oct. 7 and the subsequent genocidal response. My point is, the actions of a government do not represent the entirety of its people.

              Netanyahu has a favorability of 32% in Israel.

              Trump is currently polling at 42% in the US.

        • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.worldEnglish
          3·
          6 months ago

          It doesn’t matter if you look to the left or the right. There’s always a sickness that allows people to justify killing. It’s loathsome.

        • spartanatreyu@programming.devEnglish
          1·
          6 months ago

          Looking back at history, it would lead to more propaganda and more support for going to war.

          A population getting attacked only leads to that population wanting to an us vs them mentality and emotional knee-jerk reactions over rational responses.

      • Skydancer@pawb.socialEnglish
        1·
        6 months ago

        Can’t help noticing that you make no mention of providing similar defensive capabilities to Palestine. Kind of undercuts your argument.

        • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          6 months ago

          I completely agree that the US should defend Palestinians, as well as assist in their reconstruction needs. I was talking about amending munitions agreements. In that respect, I think the US should exclusively provide Iron Dome defensive munitions to Israel. They deserve no support in attacking other nations.

    • Andy@slrpnk.netEnglish
      395·
      6 months ago

      Yeah, and more importantly, Biden needs to learn the public component of diplomacy.

      I read his interview in Time, and it’s weird, because it at least gave me some aspect into what he’s thinking.

      He’s old as fuck. He has learned decades of procedures and standard practice in diplomacy, and he does NOT understand that a lot of it happens in the open now. Biden thinks he’s playing chess with all the diplomatic messages he sends along backchannels, and he has no idea that this is just an arm wrestling match now. People judge you by what you say and do transparently.

      Biden legit thinks he and Bibi are like cousins who grew up together who are having a tough fight, and Bibi is all fucking politics. He’d slit any throat he has to get what he wants, and he will bury Biden in a heartbeat.

      Biden should go to Israel, and in a public address announce that the country is turning a corner: it will be safer than ever, and America is going to assist with a long term peace process, which they won’t lead but will provide security guarantees for. And don’t tell Bibi any of this in advance. And when Bibi reacts, say that Bibi has lost his trust and that of the elected public, and they need to hold new elections before getting any new weapons. Get some 'nads, man!

      I wouldn’t mind a complete cut-off in weapons, but I also wouldn’t mind if they continue to supply rocket defenses or something if its part of a pressure campaign to send Netanyahu packing. I want Israeli prosecutors and the Hague to argue over who gets to lock his ass up first.

        • Andy@slrpnk.netEnglish
          10·
          6 months ago

          That is very true. Joey Ayoub of The Fire These Times coined a phrase months ago for describing the mainstreaming of genocidal ideation among the public, which I keep returning to: “The Smotrich-ization of the Israeli public”. It’s real, and it’s terrifying.

          Still, my impression is that Israelis are in a weird, weird, weird place:

          • They are largely supportive of the war, but most want a ceasefire deal that would bring home the hostages.
          • They are largely furious at Netanyahu, though his support has recently started to go back up.
          • There has been enormous pro-democracy anti-government protests before the war, then there were demonstrations demanding negotiations for a hostage release that were supposed to be explicitly distinct from anti-government demonstrators, and there are also pro-ceasefire, pro-hostage demonstrations that are explicitly NOT distinct from the pro-democracy anti-government demonstrations.
          • Most Israelis don’t believe the war has “gone too far”, but also many Israelis feel that the war has been mishandled (largely due to the cost on Israeli troops, the economy, and international standing).
          • There is support for the IDF, but also fury and blame at the IDF for failing so catastrophically during Oct. 7.
          • There is also widespread anger at the far right for insisting on exempting the ultraorthodox from conscription, while troop shortages force middle-age reservists back into service, but there’s no clear indication that anyone has any leverage to impose on the far and ULTRA FAR right, who have been essentially governing Israel with smug impunity for months now.
          • And, overall, Israelis seem to like Biden a lot.

          I apologize that i don’t have sources for each of these, these are just a collection of insights I recall reading in the last few months.

          Ultimately, I think they’re largely out of answers AND being herded aggressively by a well-tuned state propaganda machine, which means that I think their attitudes are in flux. I think they could be led in many directions, and many futures are possible. Right now though, the most successful shepherds are Smotrich and Ben-Givir.

          Lastly, there are a few very small Palestinian-Jewish unity groups. These may look irrelevant considering their numbers are so few, but when people ask where we could find leaders capable of negotiating peace (considering most of the Palestinian ones have been killed to prevent any peace process), I think this would be where we’d find them. Despite their numbers, they terrify the far right. They face extreme threats of violence, and I think that reaction belies the threat they pose to Jewish Supremacy.

      • Cryophilia@lemmy.worldEnglish
        25·
        6 months ago

        Damn, it’s a shame that you - who are clearly so much smarter and more knowledgeable than everyone involved - aren’t running things. Surely no armchair general would ever second guess your approach to handling complex international diplomacy.

        I’m glad at least someone has it all figured out, if only Biden would reach out to you personally.

  • Alteon@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2237·
    6 months ago

    Hey! Where’s the Russian Agents, I mean MAGA Patriots, I mean Genocide Joe crowd at rn? You know the ones that constantly complain that Biden should have personally airdropped over Gaza and personally saved the children? You know, the ones that demand Biden to destroy any and all ties to an ally that may or may not have long lasting repercussions with our existing allies? You know, the ones that actually think geopolitics are easy?

    • alcoholicorn@lemmy.mlEnglish
      252·
      6 months ago

      I don’t know who you’re talking about that believes anything you’ve claimed, but the people who don’t want Biden to send Israel the weapons they’re using to carry out a genocide are still angry that Biden is sending Israel weapons, which they’re using to carry out a genocide.

      If your understanding of geopolitics somehow has you justifying helping Israel blowing up kids in Palestine or Saudi Arabia blowing up school buses in Yemen or american occupiers cause famine in Syria, you’ve completely lost the plot.

      Not blowing up children is more important than American hegemony in the middle east.

      • Cryophilia@lemmy.worldEnglish
        16·
        6 months ago

        I don’t know who you’re talking about

        The fuck you don’t lmao

        What the fuck is this gaslighting bullshit. “Tankies? Never heard of em”

      • Alteon@lemmy.worldEnglish
        11·
        6 months ago

        I mean, we literally know that Russia and China is antivax conspiracies, and anti-demoracy, pro-fascism rhetoric that people absolutely just eating up. Anything they can do to help push the nation to be more right-leaning is better for them.

  • KoboldCoterie@pawb.socialEnglish
    1691·
    6 months ago

    “During World War II, Churchill told the United States, ‘give us the tools, we’ll do the job.’ And I say, give us the tools and we’ll finish the job a lot faster,” Netanyahu said in the video.

    Yeah, that’s what we’re afraid of, and exactly why we don’t want to give you the weapons.