Vance is one of Trump’s most vocal supporters and an outspoken critic of U.S. aid to Ukraine.
. . .
Vance has said that it would be “completely irresponsible” for Ukraine to join NATO. He has also argued for the U.S. to focus solely on preventing Chinese expansion, even if that means sacrificing sovereign Ukrainian lands to Russia.
“Any peace settlement is going to require some significant territorial concessions from Ukraine, and you’re gonna have a peace deal, because that’s the only way out of the conflict,” Vance said in February.
Wait why isn’t Mike pence vp? Am I OOTL?
Oh no, the guy said no to Trump refusing to break the law during the January 6th “oopsie treason failed uprising” so he burned that bridge.
Can’t have people blatantly respecting democracy and the rule of law, that’s not how the possible future felon-in-chief rolls. (But yet somehow it’s the democrats inciting violence against him, hum.)
Umm, very. Look up “hang Mike Pence”
The article says he supported Biden winning. Oh noooooo a fair and equal election, no wayyy
HERE COME THE FUCKING TANKIES
Without tankies this place wouldnt exist, so yea we are gonna be here
Without fascism you would not exist either.
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Lol this passive aggressive nonsense is the most american thing in this thread. If you people dont stop having your own opinion, us white folk might just stop funding your little projects! How big and important you are, we definitely wouldnt want to offend you.
I’m not going to be passive aggressive about it, there’s a simple reality at play here.
Lemmy is FOSS, so the moment that these tankies try to give themselves some backdoor or whatever to gain undue influence over the system, it will be discovered, forked and everyone will switch and they will be left out in the cold with nothing.
Maybe that’ll happen, maybe it won’t. Maybe they’ll get sick of only running pariah instances and take their ball and go home, except we can make a copy of their ball and keep going.
That’s why I’m happy to use the system, it’s an open ecosystem and no individual developer has the power to torpedo it, even if they are the founders. Their authoritarian tendencies can’t do that much damage in the long run.
I was more talking about how you made it sound like the founders of lemmy are upset with the user base of it as a whole, and then said they are fake founders anyways because the real work was done before them by others, and then said if they keep it up (never said what they were doing to begin with) SOME PEOPLE wink**wink will stop supporting them financially.
Its just dripping with self importance and arrogance. Its an extremely american thing to assume that your viewpoint is the only valid and logical one.
You have me confused with someone else.
How very like a tankie to be unable to follow the basic and obvious facts of a situation. That’s necessary to become a tankie.
Yeah I assumed the person defending the OP was the OP, my bad. What’s your excuse for being an asshat? Internet tough guy? You sound so big and in charge when you talk like that you know. Do you talk to strangers like that in person too? Can you share your other qualities so I can copy them? You are obviously an amazing person so please help me.
Tankies hate JD Vance too. The only reason he wants peace in Ukraine is to start shit with China. We tankies don’t want to make peace in one place just to fight somewhere else, we want peace and deescalation all over the globe.
Okay that’s cool, what about Iran, Russia, China, and North Korea, out there starting shit with everyone?
If you just give them what they want, they go away. Simples 🤦
Appeasement. 60% of the time it works every time.
…which is basically enabling imperialism.
It’s wild how eager people are to look at the exact same people who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan and say, “Yeah, I trust them to have the people’s best interests at heart when they lead us into another conflict.”
Not everybody on Lemmy is American and bound to American news. Some of us live near russia and know first-hand about what it is and what it isn’t.
I know, you americans are really good at “doing your own research”.
Not everyone who went into Iraq or Afghanistan was an American either, the leaders of plenty of other countries supported it too.
Also we’re talking about American politician JD Vance and what he wants to do regarding US foreign policy, so the history of US foreign policy is obviously relevant.
I’m not talking about JD Vance. I’m talking about very convenient to tankies and ruskies “we want peace and deescalation” when Ukraine is devoured by an imperialist, authoritarian shithead.
But again, you’re a self-proclaimed tankie, of course your gobbling authoritarian dick.
Can’t think of a time in history where both sides in a war didn’t claim it was about defense and security, whether it was or not. I remember when they said “Either we fight them over there or we’ll have to fight them here,” and went off to kill a million people in the Middle East, and then they lost, and now, where are all the terror attacks they said would happen? I remember too (though I’m not old enough to have lived through it) when they said if we didn’t go out and kill 4 million people in Vietnam, they’d keep expanding all over and eventually we’d be fighting them here. Well, we lost that one too, and nothing bad happened afterward. So forgive me if I’m just a little bit skeptical of the latest pretext for pouring ridiculous sums of money into the pockets of defense contractors so the rich can get richer while our schools, roads, and hospitals decline further and further into dysfunction.
I am a tankie, yes, because tankies seem to be the only people interested in spending less money on tanks and more on human wellbeing.
Does J stand for Junk?
JustSuckingPutinsCock
Good. No more war. No more foreign aid. We need to focus on Americans and America.
It’s not mutually exclusive, which of his policies are actually focusing on Americans?
Lmao, living in a glass house during a hail.
“Let’s focus on not getting hit”
Last time we did that we had 2 world wars back to back
Can you expand on that? Seems conflicting.
A policy of no war, no foreign aid and especially focusing on America and everything in it… how did that lead to world wars?
I’ll answer the “why would it now lead to disaster” part, and by shuffling names, places, & contexts around I believe much of that can be obliquely backported to the same question with respect to runup to the world wars of yore.
USA’s multi-decade cultural imperialism and dogged pursuit of economic hegemony led to it imposing itself as a global barometer and gatekeeper (despite being famously incompetent at both). The upshot is that now, even though philosophically it would be wonderful for the US to finally stop enforcing a petrodollar-driven serfdom on so much of the world in the name of “infinite (US economic) expansion”, pragmatically speaking a magical and abrupt “pull out” would be wildly irresponsible, much like yanking an arrow out of a wound in the direction from which it entered (causing a Jackson Pollock’s worth of collateral damage). That would largely be because the sudden power vacuum would not be able to be filled in time by other countries (who are under-resourced due to aforementioned hegemonic squeezing), leaving not enough people to “not tolerate the intolerant”, leading to explosive expansion of the “ignorant bullies masquerading as politicians” brigade (not unlike Hitler’s opportunistic power-grab while the politicians who should have been the ballwark against him hubristically sat on their hands). See: https://www.ournationalconversation.org/post/explaining-the-paradox-of-tolerance
Well, the U.S. doesn’t have to worry about enforcing the petro-dollar, because the Global South is pulling away from the petro-dollar. The U.S. is going to have to start looking into opening up those oil reserves that Biden closed and bringing jobs back to America that were exported to other nations. Self sufficiency, at least more so than current, needs to be the goal. The world, outside of the Western World, is turning its back on the U.S. and rightfully so… sooner or later so too will the Western Powers turn their backs on the U.S.
I agree though that an abrupt pullout like Biden did in Afghanistan is a stupid fkin idea and should be done gracefully.
Manufacturing jobs, and most other low wage jobs, never left the US. That is a lie fed to you by your wage slave masters. The US currently manufactures 300% more products than we did in 1972 which was the last year of the golden age of the 20th century US. The wage slave masters automated those jobs, so we do triple the production with 1/100 the workforce.
We are already self sufficient. Isolationism will not help any of your stated goals, and will cause global instability.
So I work in the IT industry… almost everything IT related, some portion of it has been exported overseas. Same goes for the customer service industry.
Sounds like you need unions. One of the many reasons I left IT was the complete lack of unions.
Vance doesn’t want that, he just wants out of this particular conflict so he can start shit somewhere else.
God forbid.
Yes, it would be bad to start another war somewhere else.
He still wants to send all the aid Israel will not ever want to commit genocide.
Unfortunately the U.S. belongs to Israel.
And fkin lol @ people downvoting:
No more war.
No more foreign aid.
We need to focus on Americans and America.
Holy moly, some of yall are insufferable.
we heard you the first time. get down voted twice ig
If you think US can sustain itself without foreign products, you’re high on your own farts. Open a window to the basement, get some fresh air.
I never said anything about trade… wtf lol
Holy shit, can you not think just one little step ahead?
You jumped to the conclusion that I’m asking for some kind of self imposed trade embargo. You’re pretending to, “think one little step ahead”… you fkin with a game of checkers, I’m on 4D Chess. GTFO. lmao
Yeah. I can see you’re not the sharpest hoe in the shed.
Playing 4D chess… As the pigeon.
Oh look, he shaved his beard for Daddy Trump. Wouldn’t want Dear Leader to disapprove of your facial hair now would we, Jay Dee?
He has to continue his twink transition. He’s obviously the bottom in this relationship.
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Can you imagine this clown being president when the rapist with 34 felonies is deemed unfit for office or has a McHeartattack?
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And you should just give up your home to everyone that wants it.
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Can you tell me the country? I want to educate myself.
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I agree with a lot of what you said, but the US inventing Islamic fundamentalism is a comical take.
Abrahamic extremists have been useful idiots of those in power for thousands of years. The US is just the latest to take advantage.
The real problem there is religion is poison
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Theocratic hell hole say what?
Wasn’t USA siding with Phalavi against Khomeini?
I think you might have to point into another direction in that case.
Yes, the US backed Pavlavi, they’re the ones that gave him power over the more democratic system they had before. He hunted people (primarily leftists) down with secret police and ran the country terribly, as the resource colony it was, to the point that the conditions were created for a revolution, and since most of the leftists had been killed, the fundamentalists were able to take advantage of the situation.
I don’t think I should even reply to this pile of disinformation.
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What’s the lead time on T-shirt printing these days?
Should I get the “Hang JD Vance” shirts printed now so I’ve got them ready to sell, or wait until Trump inevitably turns on him?
Vance is going to push Trump down a flight of stairs his first five minutes in office. He’s going to invoke the 25th amendment so fast it’ll make your head spin.
The guy has absolutely no interest in being VP and his buddies in Silicon Valley are already chomping at the bit for a Techbro Coup. He’s not going to wait 3 hours much less 3 days.
The concept of a Techbro coup is so fucking absurd to me. Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses. Mostly cause Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power, add on to the fact that nobody fucking likes them and well theres a good chance theyd be mulched.
I think you’re taking “coup” here too literally. Its implied that it’ll be a political coup, not an actual violent one.
Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses.
Plenty of the coups in Latin America and the Middle East during the 50s and 60s were sponsored by these bean-counters and their billionaire buddies working out of various right-wing think tanks. The Chicago School of Business produced legions of these fuckers and flew them out from Mexico City to Santiago to Brasília. The Saudi Crown Prince MBS has absolutely inundated himself with these freaks in his quest to build the world’s most technologically advanced shopping mall. New Zealand is currently drowning in Techbro fascism, after their local media was hijacked by the far right and the residents talked into electing a white nationalist government.
Hell, states like California and Texas and Florida are already thick with these ghouls. That’s a big reason why our energy prices are skyrocketing in these states. Techbros build these enormous power-hog data centers and jack up the price of electricity for everyone else.
Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power
They have a great deal of institutional power through contracts with federal and state governments. They’re embedded deep in the post-War on Terror panopticon and own huge stakes in private media, so they get to dictate a lot of what we see and hear while distorting public outcries and SWATing political dissidents.
Techbros aren’t the brightest, but cops are way dumber and more easy to manipulate. And as our domestic budget increasingly becomes “Oops! All Cops!” that means obedience to the Techbro Establishment is how you make money and keep your job, especially as law enforcement.
That’s huge leverage in a system that already favors extremist ultra-nationalist white supremacy.
Dont take my amusement as dismissal, its foolish to underestimate ones enemy. Everything you said is decently true, hell I should know my great grandfather helped run the proto Techbros out of the region back in the 70s. No the weakness of the fascistic Techbro is that they are inherently institutional, anything that works outside of it or doesnt follow procedures is inherently at an advantage against them. Do you really think Musk or Thiel consider that someone may just blow them up with a car bomb or shoot them point blank with a 12 gauge?
Their power is drawn from the institutions making them inherently a secondary power behind the actual fascist leadership. They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together. The fascist respects strength, but the Techbros have none. They hide behind laws, money, and influence.
They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together.
That’s just fascism generally speaking. You either liberalize or you fail. A paranoid personality cult of an administration can’t last long without people Operation Valkyrie-ing each other, as evidence by Trump’s ear going missing last weekend.
But in the meantime, you get to restructure the liberal order so that your people are in charge when the dust settles.
The point I am trying to make is that to even get to the point where they can set shit up for the future they first must get past the first hurdle of consolidation. Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example. They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.
Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example.
That’s why they introduce guys like Vance, though. He’s a great front-man for the operation because liberals continue to treat him as just another moderate midwestern politician. And he’s proven his star power, with his movie and book deal.
They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.
I guess we’ll see…
Picture of him.
DON’T MISS
3 to 10 days. Quantity? Colors? Cotton weight ?
Its very easy to see that Putin is running the GOP.
At this point it looks like they are competing on who in the GOP can suck up to the russians the most
🤮
All I need to see is that beard / haircut
And the eyeliner
I didn’t know that India was big into Hitler. But now his wife’s actions make more sense.
This is a very BJP / Mohdi / Hindutva thing. Not India as a whole but it is popular enough. These Hindutva people also unironically praise Israel and Zionism. They see Israel as they ethno-state model they want to be, plus they both hate Muslims. (The Israeli response to this “fuck off, you’re more brown than arabs”)
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Go away
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Though your misinformation campaign is off to a VERY good start, I’m afraid that it bodes badly for anyone taking you seriously enough to consider anything you say as resembling a point, let alone a good one.
My favorite was when you tried to say that Pelosi and Schiff demanded that Biden step down, and when I proved you wrong with direct quotes-
You ran away.
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Ahhhh… right. That wasn’t you. I get you all confused. Same message, same….
Anyway-
It was you though, that admitted you were here to disrupt an election. Haven’t forgotten that part.
And it’s just as stupid.
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Oh come on now… don’t try and paint over it. What you said was:
I actively encourage anyone to withhold a vote from Trump or Biden
Actively- Encourage.
You are urging people to NOT to vote.
THAT IS DISRUPTING AN ELECTION.
Russia invades its neighbour, unprovoked, explicitly to seize their agreed sovereign territory
“Why would America do this?”
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So tired of your repeated misinfornation and outright propaganda. You’re done here.
https://www.crisisgroup.org/content/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual-explainer
I mean, that’s straight up not true lol
Your claim is that Ukraine - while not at war - was bombing itself? And that would be a legitimate casus belli for Russia to invade them, and then seize that territory for themselves?
That’s a batshit insane take
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Oh silly me, your argument is even worse than I thought!
So the “bombing the Donbas” you’re talking about is the previous time Russia declared an unprovoked war against them!
“Russia had to invade, because last time they invaded, the Ukrainians fought back. Those bastards!”
Edit: as an aside, you somehow still managed to be entirely wrong, despite not even saying anything in your reply directly - the internet isn’t free, it’s extraordinarily expensive to run, and costs the consumer to use their ISP, too!
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Without NATO we’d have said bye bye to Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and maybe Poland
Remember, if russia does it, it is NOT:
- Facist.
- Imperialism.
The irony of someone with the handle anticolonialist spouting talking points in favour of an imperialist land grab where they are literally creating colonies of Russians along the corridor of Ukrainian land between Russia and Crimea is just beautiful.
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Good thing it wasn’t as Putin has shown Russia is still a threat to innocent nations who aren’t protected by NATO membership.
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So because they are corrupt they have to surrender to Russia and the West isn’t allowed to help them defend themselves? That’s like saying that a person deserves to get shot by the police just because he has a criminal record.
Also the EU already approved Ukraine’s candidate status for accession and accession negotiations officially opened this year. So if Ukraine does things right they will be a member of the EU in ten years give or take. Guess what article 42.7 in the Treaty of Lisbon is. It’s a mutual defensive clause. So end of the day they wil be protected by the bloc whether they are a NATO member or not.
Cool. Corruption is inheritance from russia and nomenclatura.
Are we liking them facts?
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Gee, I wonder if there were any major shake-ups in the Ukrainian government circa 2014 that could have explained this change in tune.
Ukraine wasn’t able to join NATO because of active territorial disputes regarding Russia’s 2014 illegal annexation of Crimea. The 2022 invasion and intervening Russian-backed fighting in Donestk and Luhansk were naked imperial land grabs trying to force Ukraine back into the Russian sphere of influence despite their democratic processes repeatedly trying to move towards the EU.
Or in simpler terms, imperialism is actually still bad when Russia does it and it’s weird that you don’t seem to understand that.
democratic processes
“Democracic processes,” you mean seizing power through force in a coup and then banning major opposition parties.
Even Yanukovich had been trying to push for EU membership, AKA the guy who was the target of the so-called coup you’re bitching about. He had to shift gears when Putin’s attitude changed and he could no longer split the two, but the whole “euro” part of Euro Maidan was about the sudden shift away from the EU.
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Yeah according to that guy we must demilitarize when we have a big crazy neighbor who wants to swallow us all. Great idea /s
I don’t know why my comment got deleted by that pathetic loser moderator, I essentially said I agreed with them.
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Removed, civility.
Removed, civility.
Yes, that’s kind of a pre-requisite to being on Putin’s payroll…
He’s clearly on Peter Theil’s payroll. Theil personally bankrolled Vance’s senate campaign and was the only one Theil funded that was successful.
If you keep making up conspiracy theories that every Republican takes orders from Putin, you’re going to miss their actual agenda. Shit like Project2025 isn’t Putin’s agenda. Thats a Koch project. Theil’s got his own techno libertarian eugenicist project that Vance is an acolyte of.
