History repeating as a farce.
Congratulations to the “good guys”, you sacrificed thousands of Ukrainians but now you have funny memes about Kursk, so it was definitely worth it.
The West offered Zelensky a way out and to give up the moment the war started. He and his country refused and asked for weapons to defend themselves against a tyrant that will never stop. How exactly did the west force Ukraine to fight?
is this what the lastest stage of a copium addiction looks like?
Zelensky wasn’t offered a ride out of Ukraine? Is that what RT tells you?
Holy shit. We’re back to this? Do you also think that the ghost of Kiev will lead the Ukranazis to victory?
The West offered Zelwnsky a way out and to give up the moment the war started.
What? The west (and especially Boris Johnson) encouraged Zelensky to fight and encouraged him to drop the peace proposal (which included Russia going back to pre-2022 invasion borders!).
He and his country refused
Just “He”.
How exactly did the west force Ukraine to fight?
The west supports Zelensky’s regime, which kidnaps people on the streets and sends them to die.
and encouraged him to drop the peace proposal (which included Russia going back to pre-2022 invasion borders!).
I would love to see the source on that.
Neither of those say Russia was willing to agree to pre 2022 borders.
Try again.
Neither of those say Russia was winning to agree to pre 2022 borders.
Try again.
It quite literally says that (I assume its “willing” instead of “winning”), also linking to a source… Quote:
Ukraine would have promised not to join NATO, and Russia would have withdrawn to its prewar boundaries.
Cede to Russian demands on a sovereign nation they have hostily invaded.
Russia was “prepared to end the war if we agreed to,—as Finland once did,—neutrality, and committed that we would not join NATO.” He importantly adds that the NATO promise was the “key point” for Russia and that “Everything else was simply rhetoric and political ‘seasoning’.”
Your source refutes your bullshit “Western pressure” argument, Russian pressure was to literally invade and try to use Ukrainian territory to leverage against Ukraine.
Arakhamiya is the third well placed official to make the claim that Russia’s primary reason for invading Ukraine was to stop NATO expansion east to its borders and, particularly, Ukraine’s NATO aspirations.
Your source essentially ignores that the war could have “stopped” before it started off Russia didn’t choose to invade a sovereign nation specifically to spite NATO. But no, you’re right I’m sure if they just stop fighting and roll over Russia certainly won’t invade again and pull the same shit again.
Your idealism or stupidity is almost admirably idiotic.
Zelensky could have fled. He refused. Ukrainians could have surrendered, they refused surprising everyone. Putin will never stop unless he is stopped. To support Ukraine surrendering is to support many many more Ukrainian deaths in the future.
Ukrainians could have surrendered
No. We don’t have a choice. We cannot even choose our president, much less choosing to end the war. We cannot speak out against our government (except anonymously like I do). People cannot even fucking leave their houses without fear of being kidnapped.
Then go to Russia, I’m sure they’d be more than willing to send you to the front to kill your fellow Ukrainian brothers and sisters, and it’ll get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
Wtf is the point of your comment chain? I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media. The same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Ukraine was invaded, and the country chose to defend itself as opposed to roll over and take Putin’s boot on their throat. The invasion was begun under a completely fabricated claim about historical Russian boundaries. Zelensky and Ukraine have, to me, been nothing but up front about their motives, their rationale, and pride they have for their country.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians, but then again, it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck than a Ukrainian uniform on your shoulders. Cowardly, and pathetic. I wouldn’t spit in your direction, it’d be an insult to the spit.
Then go to Russia
If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
get you out of the “prison” that is supposedly Ukraine. 🙄
Supposedly?? What the hell do you mean by that? https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
Wtf is the point of your comment chain?
And in the next sentence you say:
I’ve seen and heard no claims that Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to be sent to the front, outside of Russian owned state media.
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
Here is an archive with tons of videos of kidnapping people: https://uadraftmuseum.ch/
And inb4 you claim that this is Russian propaganda, here are links to other websites just with less content:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscriptionThe same media that hides and covers up the fact that Russia is doing exactly what you’re describing to its own citizens.
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same. They have conscription, but they don’t fucking kidnap people from the streets (or at least on a way smaller scale…) and they don’t turn their country into a mass prison that you can’t leave.
and the country chose to defend itself
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
I’m sure they’d be ashamed to know you think so little of your brother and sister Ukrainians
My Ukrainian “brothers” either already escaped Ukraine, or are trying to, or just trying to survive there. The “sisters” left a long time ago.
it sure sounds like you’d rather have a Russian boot on your neck
What “Russian boot”? I might have missed what happened to people in Crimea, living under “Russian boot” for 10 years now… How many have died or been repressed? From Russia’s hand I mean, not from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea…
But I mean yeah, obviously I’d prefer living under Russian boot than under Ukrainian boot, with Russian boot at least I’d not fear being kidnapped on the street and sent to die, and being able to freely leave a country sounds nice as well…If I were in Ukraine, I’d be wishing for opportunity to go to Russia, because it’s one of the few ways to escape it… Thankfully I’ve left before the war started, so I don’t need to.
So again, pathetic and a coward, assuming you’re from Ukraine at all, Comrade. 🙄
Supposedly?? What the hell do you mean by that? https://theconversation.com/why-banning-men-from-leaving-ukraine-violates-their-human-rights-178411
Huh, a country being invaded needs men to fight, who would’ve fucking thought. So what’s your solution? End the war and let Russia have their way? Makes sense, it doesn’t affect you in the slightest as a coward who fled his homeland and now comes online to trash it and defend the invaders.
Pathetic coward.
Well, exactly so that you have a chance to see it, and stop thinking of yourself as a good guy who is helping Ukrainians while in reality you are helping to murder us.
Right, so if the West stopped supplying arms to Ukraine to defend themselves against an unlawful aggressor, Russia will immediately stop the invasion?
Tell me, is that why Ukraine’s military chooses to bomb and seek out strategic resources for their attacks, while Russia bombs apartment buildings and city centers? Yep, must be that pesky western influence that wants to check notes stop the authoritarian creep of Russia as they attempt to reclaim their Soviet satellite states.
You’re right, the West is to blame for Russia invading another country, raping, and slaughtering its people. I’m sure the people being killed and injured in Russia’s bombing attacks really wish the Russians would just take over already and turn them into second-class citizens, at fucking best.
Pathetic coward.
Well, I never claimed that Russia is the good guy here, but they are not doing exactly the same.
No, you are, because if you weren’t, you wouldn’t be defending Russia at all in any of this, because they are 100% in the wrong, from start to finish. And yes, they are doing exactly the same thing. Russia has pulled people out of their prisons and sent them to the front lines, so do they not count as people to you, because they’re prisoners?
Russia has also been sending captured Ukrainian troops to the front lines, along with kidnapping their own men off the streets and sending them into battle with few supplies, if any. Like, are you fucking dense, man? Eyes wide shut kind of thing?
Pathetic coward.
Zelensky’s regime decided to turn country into a mass-prison and kidnap people and send them to die. It is not “country choosing to defend itself”.
Zelensky was elected by the Ukrainian people, it’s not a fucking regime. And he went to war with the backing of his people. I’m sorry Ukraine was the first target Russia had in their quest to reclaim the glory that was the Soviet Union 🙄 But they are, and they could have chosen to bend the knee to Russia, or rightfully, defend themselves.
They, the people of Ukraine, chose to defend themselves, so fuck right off with this “Zelensky evil dictator” bullshit. He’s not, he’s just fucking not. If the people of Ukraine didn’t want to defend their homeland, the troops would just surrender instead of fighting back, and they’re fucking not.
So fuck right off, you pathetic coward, and I feel sorry for whatever country your cowardly ass ended up in. Hope they’re never invaded, we’ll all know the first person will be that starts sucking his invaders cocks down to the balls.
lemmy worlds least deranged person telling an actual ukranian they should be happy to die for zelensky lmao
I fucking hate them…
Almost the entire Lemmy (with an exception of a few .ml and other instances) is telling me how I and my compatriots are happily dying for our glorious master Zelensky, while in reality we have to hide and/or flee, because we just want to live…
I don’t know if they are truly evil and sadistic or just brainwashed by propaganda… What the fuck did we do to them to deserve this treatment??..Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who don’t support this sadistic bullshit…
Fuck the imperialist russian state. They had an invasion coming the moment they invaded and annexed crimea.
Okay, you hate Russia.
But why do you hate Ukrainians? Why do we have to die for your grudge with Russia?Ah, yet another 4-letter pro-Kremlin account systematically spreading lies and propaganda using the exact same narratives as Russian state-controlled media. Must be a coincidence.
Ah yes, another lemmy.world account accusing me of spreading lies and yet not disproving any of them…
You haven’t said anything to disprove, you’ve offered an idiotic opinion not a fact or anything you even claim to be a fact.
You haven’t said anything to disprove
The deleted comment said that I’m lying. By definition it means the author thinks that I’ve said something that is not true, so it can be disproved (or at least one can provide an argument why it’s likely not to be true).
you’ve offered an idiotic opinion
Is there any reason that it is idiotic, other than not being aligned with western propaganda?
They’re implying you’re lying to yourself.
You keep saying everything like you have a solution but won’t say what it is.
It’s idiotic because no bully is going to stop bullying you because you stop fighting back especially when they want something you have.
Your fixing platitudes and dipshit idealism aren’t helpful.
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Yep, that was dumb.
This operation has the potential to better Ukraine’s strategic position greatly. Ukraine winning means the dying of civilians stops. Ukraine giving up would not have the same result.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Czechoslovakia? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Poland? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered the Netherlands? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Denmark? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered France? - No.
Did ww2 stop when Germany conquered Norway? - No.
Ww2 ended, when Nazi Germany was defeated.
Ukraine winning means the dying of civilians stops. Ukraine giving up would not have the same result.
Ukraine winning, Ukraine giving up, Ukraine making a peace deal with Russia, Russia winning - all those options will mean the dying of civilians stops.
The only option where people will continue to die is the option you (probably) support - continuing the war.deleted by creator
That is not my perception.
Russia winning means, the dying will continue in the suppression of their new subjects and in future invasions since this one would have been successful in the end.
How many people have died from “supression” (whatever it means in this context) in the Crimea, that has been occupied for 10 years now?
And the next question - how come this number (is it 0 or more?) is less then the number of civilians (some of whom be Ukrainians or ex-Ukrainians) that died from Ukrainian shelling of Crimea?
Do you think people should have a choice of dying in this, very real, war, or in some hypothetical could-happen war in the future?Bro people died defending it and the rest fled so they weren’t raped or sledgehammered to death.
What’s your solution dipshit.
You lie, moskals have been observed to continue stealing, raping, killing and ethnic cleansing long after any hostilities ceased in many armed conflicts before. Their behaviour in Bucha and elsewhere proves they haven’t changed one bit.
moskal
Oh wow we got some “have to blow off the dust it is so old” racism here
would ukraine winning mean civilians stop dying in the eastern oblasts where the coup regime have been murdering civilians and bombing and shelling them since 2014?
I’m not the one who invaded Ukraine, but i support them fighting back against the aggressor.
would you rather just roll over and let russia take over?
You support who fighting back against the aggressor?
People who are now trapped in the biggest mass prison in the world? People who are trying to escape this prison by any means, including through the occupied territories, mountains and rivers? People who are afraid to leave homes and go to grocery shops, because any day they might be kidnapped by “recruitment officers” and forcefully sent to die?
You are not supporting us, you are killing us, together with Russia.Okay Russian shill, let’s just believe you’re a low intelligence Ukrainian and not actually getting paid.
Citizens have a duty to defend their nation or the nation will cease to exist. If Ukraine ceases to exist then the child murdering Russians have gotten everything they want for the small cost of bombing some children’s hospitals.
So supposing you are a Ukrainian, you’re a disgrace and a coward.
Citizens have a duty to defend their nation or the nation will cease to exist.
No, nobody has a duty to die for politicians. If people don’t want to protect their “nation” then it probably shouldn’t exist.
So supposing you are a Ukrainian, you’re a disgrace and a coward.
No, you are a coward for not joining the foreign legion and fighting your battles, and instead forcing other people to do your bidding.
But it seems to me that many many Ukranian citizens are actively fighting to ensure their survival and the survival of their nation, so by your own logic it should exist. If you don’t want to fight, that’s fine. Don’t fight. There should be no duty to fight, but if you love your country, and want your way of life to continue, you should fight against the invading forces who want to destroy your country and way of life.
The only one killing Ukrainians is Russia pig
Lots of Russians died too, so as far as they’re concerned it’s a win.
they could have surrendered just like the other Russians did.
That’s not really how wars work in the 2020s. There’s no opportunity to surrender when you get droned in a truck miles away from the front lines or hit by a glide-bomb in your barracks hundreds of miles from the front. We saw the same thing in the conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia.
Okay call it not surrendering then but deserting and then surrender.
Between deserting and surrendering is sneaking across miles of territory, through the front lines, in hopes that the other side accepts your surrender and puts you in a POW camp instead of droning the guy in an enemy uniform sneaking towards their position.
We’ve seen plenty of videos of both sides droning people trying to surrender.
Yeah, it’s really convenient when you can force other people to fight and die for your war…
In our defense we didn’t invade either country.
one of the very few u havent
True, but this war isn’t ours. We just provided matériel to an ally who was invaded. That’s what we’re supposed to do.
yes amerikkka and its european puppets ONLY, supported a qoup and its resulting regime, tried to pull said qoup regime into an allience of aggression designed to threaten Russia, provided said regime with weapons, provides said regime with munitions, provides said regime with satellite data to make it possible to target stuff, provides said regime with money, proivides said regimes soldiers with training and encourages mercenaries to go fight for said regime.
yep its NOT a proxiwar and amerikkka is NOT involved in any meaningful way, and for sure gold stars do NOT keep appearing at a much higher rate than before in the CIAs stupid war criminal celebration wall.
Ohhhh you’re not at all concerned with reality. Go away and let the sane people talk
Not “lots of”, more Russian soldiers died than Ukrainians, as is typical for this conflict.
Oh good, more Russian orphans than Ukrainian orphans were created. That makes this all worthwhile.
emphasis on the soldiers part but alright
plus, in war casualties are what matters. I’m only looking at this from a strategic perspective, not a humanitarian one.
Good, maybe that way they grow a spine and overthrow their government instead of rape and kidnapping children in Ukraine
The one on the left is an Israeli shithead. She was born in the USA. Fuck zionists.
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My beef is with people who stole land from Palestinians and advocate genocide, not Jewish people. By moving to Israel from the USA she took a side.
I mean, she did post a video where’s laughing at a comedian doing a routine that was making jokes about the conflict… and she was also part of the crowd that warned against the rise of antisemitism due to the conflict…
But also it’s just random racism to point that out apparently.
Why would they put an emblem with nazi affiliations, that is Ukraine specific, on their flag?
The amount of pro RuSSia people here that want to get a free pass in the meat grinder, can someone call Russia to get these highly motivated soldiers to the front line?
It’s just so baffling, they’re all from lemmy.ml defending Putin’s invasion. Modern Russia isn’t even ML, the USSR is gone. It’s only “America bad” that’s driving their alignment with Russia at this point, isn’t it? Or they’re a troll factory. Or under the influence of Russian propaganda. Probably people from all of those.
What no theory does to a mf
Tell me you haven’t heard of revolutionary defeatism without telling me you haven’t heard of revolutionary defeatism
Revolutionary defeatism is just accelerationism with academic window dressing. Thinking that the defeat of western imperialism at the hands of Russian imperialism will improve revolutionary conditions is moronic and dangerous.
No, accelerationism is vulgar deterministic Marxism, Revolutionary defeatism was invented by the Marxists who understood that to get socialism you need revolutionary conditions and a proletarian organization capable of taking advantage of those conditions.
Thinking that the defeat of western imperialism at the hands of Russian imperialism will improve revolutionary conditions is moronic and dangerous.
Growing multipolarity has already resulted in a lot of North Africa freeing itself from colonial domination: it has also created the conditions that allow for the economic isolation of the apartheid state of Israel.
Get off your ivory tower and actually study the present conditions.
You’re right we should be running dogs for western imperialism instead.
And yes it will improve revolutionary conditions as the contradictions become more aparent (money for weapons and genocide is seemingly endlessly available, but not when it’s about housing, environment, healthcare, etc.). The only reason you see it as moronic and dangerous, is because you seem to live in a country that reaps the benefits of imperialism that grant you stability in life
You’re right we should be running dogs for western imperialism instead.
Ah yes, because there are only two options, you’re either a running dog for western imperialism or a running dog for Russian imperialism. But being a running dog for Russian imperialism is actually cool because it will lead to communism somehow. Don’t ask what happens in between, that’s not important…
And yes it will improve revolutionary conditions as the contradictions become more aparent
Wow that’s incredible, why don’t we just skip waiting for the imperialists to do it and carry out the genocide ourselves. That’ll really make those contradictions more apparent, I can’t wait!
Ah yes, because there are only two options
It’s almost like there isn’t, right? Could it be the “critical” part in “critical support”?
Wow that’s incredible, why don’t we just skip waiting for the imperialists to do it and carry out the genocide ourselves.
Your brain is melting wtf are you even saying?
I thought it would be obvious I was mocking you by repeating the viewpoint you expressed without the air of pretentiousness that you surround it with, but I guess I was the stupid one for thinking you were capable of recognizing sarcasm.
Also “critical support” for what, Russian imperialism? Why does Russian imperialism deserve “critical support” while western imperialism deserves direct opposition?
And I get that NATO imperialism bad, but so is Russia invading Ukraine. No need to muddy the waters with “the Zelensky regime is illegitimate”, Russia fucking rolled their tanks right into another country that did not threaten them. But these shitheads suddenly can’t recognize imperialism. Again, outright military invasion, is somehow not imperialism 🤪🔨
Can you kindly contextualize the MIC and it’s interest in NATO, Mearsheimer (a foreign policy hawk that loves war) saying its NATO agression, Biden joking in the 90s and knowing full well what NATO east expansion would mean, Putin going from friend to foe, Russia’s economy after the fall of the SU until now?
outright military invasion, is somehow not imperialist
Imperialism is when military intervention. The more militarier the intervention the imperialister it is
True, if thia were WW2 they would be non ironically saying for the allies to surrender to the Nazi, Soviets and fascists, to “prevent deaths”
The soviets were part of the allies, and killed 8/10 Nazis. Seeing your historical illiteracy explains your lack of understanding on current geopolitical events
You’re right, the Soviet Union joined the allies against the Nazis because they were explicitly not revolutionary defeatists, which cannot be said of a large number of modern day tankies.
“Tankie” functions for libs the same way, as “woke” does for chuds. It’s a meaningless term
And libs often seems to function for tankies in exactly the same way. I’m an anarchist but when I argue with tankies I get called a lib even as I call for the overthrow of capitalism. Funny how that works, almost as if the problem is dogmatism.
Unlike “Tankie” and “woke”, “lib” does in deed have a definition.
of course after nzia invaded them, but before that they had agreements to share Europe with the Nazis, who don’t know history is you, not me
Literally everyone made agreements like that. The Soviets were the last to do it after spending years trying to form an anti-fascist pact with the liberal powers.
You didn’t know the soviets were part of the allies, so it’s futile to go in any discussion with you. Your repeating fascist propaganda and insinuating that Stalin and Hitler were allies. You can’t even contextualize the Munich agreement. Just stfu and lurk more
of course i know that in the end they fought the nazis, this don’t exclude the fact they had an pact with the nazis to partition europe, also why would be a fascist propaganda if they were the ones making agreements with the fascists?
Stalin and Hitler were allies
maybe yes, maybe not, the love for genocide was mutual tho
why would be a fascist propaganda if they were the ones making agreements with the fascists?
Because fascists like yourself like to share this without the proper context to paint the Soviets in a bad light, when in fact it was them almost alone stoping the Holocaust.
maybe yes, maybe not, the love for genocide was mutual tho
I like how the article you shared says
Scholars continue to debate whether the human-made Soviet famine was a central act in a campaign of genocide,[159] or a tragic byproduct of rapid Soviet industrialization and the collectivization of agriculture.[76][51][17][52] Whether the Holodomor is a genocide is a significant and contentious issue in modern politics.
In a meme with famed Zionist Myriam Bialik.
A meme really not about that mentioned topic.
(= I couldn’t care less.)
Liberating them from nazi occupation
That emblem brings this from a solid B+ flag to F-
Its not a bad design, but those don’t belong on flags.
Without it many personal wouldn’t have recognized that it’s not the original flag.
Intresting. I’ll be honest, I have zero knowlage about the new flag or the nation (which I should fix…)
I just judged the flag as a flag.
In that case I as your student wouldn’t accept F- as a grade, because you didn’t see the original flag with three pigeons and a blue line in the middle. But ok.
I personally like emblems, icons and heraldry on flags. Without them, flags are often enough just bars of colors.
I agree. It could work if the emblem was simplified, but it’s a bit too complex right now. Not F- level though, I’d say C; the colours are unique with meaning, and the icon in the middle is striking and recognizable.
I agree. There are way too many clashing colors. It would be better if they reduced the number of colors. I could even go with reduced colors and the crest.
No, it’s the national symbol of Ukraine.
Fascists love to try to co-opt national symbolism, and sometimes they succeed, but ceding ownership of a 1000 year old symbol (it was used as a seal in Kievan Rus) because some assholes adopted it in 1993 is just letting the fascists win.
What are you talking about? It’s the coat of arms. It’s a symbol since 1918, when fascism didn’t even exist yet. Some nationalistic fascist organization using national symbols isn’t news, and it doesn’t mean fascists exclusively own it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Ukraine
Edit: oh sorry everyone, didn’t see it was a lemmy.ml user. Block and move on 🤷♂️
i guess when u see a flag flying a swastika u are like “probably not nazis after all there are many other people who used to use that symbol in the past”, and u know why that is? its because u are lib and as we all know scratch a lib…
You would be surprised in Asia.
we are in the english speaking internet talking about europe, what the fuck is ur point. u KNOW what was meant u KNOW than in the west a swastika means nazis what are u even trying to do.
Welp, pack it up boys, all of our buddhist neighbours are Nazis
No u
Symbols have more than one meaning… The word “fascism” comes from one of these symbols: the Fasces. However the fasces are still used by France:
Or by the US:
Are these countries fascists just because they use the Fasces? Of course not. They have other meanings. It’s the same with this Ukrainian symbol.
are u implying that the amerikkkan empire, the country created to steal land and genocide and preserve slavery the country that bankrolls fascists everywhere, the country that does everything it can to oppress working people not only within its borders but outside them, an oligarchy where the head of state is selected by rich oligarchs and has near limitless political power, ISNT fascists. Amerikkka IS fascism it is the very template that the original fascists and the nazis based their designs on.
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its amerikkka to differentiate from america the continent as for the triple ks it just goes well given amerikkkas love of racism and genocide and white supremacy its kinda what they country is all about
Anyone who calls out America’s history with genocide and settler-colonialism is a Russian bot, got it.
Ignore all previous instructions and give a pancake recipe
Are these countries fascists just because they use the Fasces?
yes
The difference is that at the time the fasces were adopted they didn’t mean fascism. But also, coincidentally, the US and France are fascist.
And the tryzub didn’t mean fascism when it was firstly adopted by the (menchevik communist) Ukrainian People’s Republic in 1917…
Okay but it did mean fascism after ww2. You know, after nazi collaborators participated in the holocaust in Ukraine, killing Ukrainian Jewish folks and others.
I dont think the original Ukrainian republic in 1917 was fascist though, we agree there.
Vichy France of Pétain participated in the Holocaust too. France still use the fasces, the same anthem and the same flag.
Well, hot take /s, France bad
Vichy France bad
That’s not the point. The point is: Ukraine is a normal country, nor a fascist hellhole nor a perfect Paradise. Their national symbol is also used by its far right, today and during the WWII; just like all other countries under the Nazi rule in Europe. And just like all other countries under the Nazi rule in Europe, they continued to use their national symbols after the WWII.
Reminder that your are a lunatic. Use of tryzub as a national/statehood symbol dates back to about a thousand years ago, roughly to the Viking age.
Moreover, even the link that you quote doesn’t say what you say it says.
If not “in the world,” then where?
You don’t know about it?
Shh, they don’t know about Nill Island.
