• Kaboom@reddthat.com
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    22 days ago

    The goal is to incentivise American manufacturing. Off shoring has hurt Americans a lot. Tariffs are supposed to help that

    • pivot_root@lemmy.world
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      22 days ago

      Consider for a moment that the largest industrial import is crude oil, accounting for 164 billion dollars in 2023 [1].

      Slapping a tariff on imports sounds good in theory, but domestic production is not currently capable of supplying an equivalent amount of oil. Ramping up production to that scale takes a long time, and imports are going to be necessary in the meantime.

      So, what happens when an X% import tax is introduced? Gasoline refineries pay X% more and pass the cost down to the consumer by raising prices at least X%.

      In the short term, this is going to fuck the average American. And unless America fights hard against non-renewable energy and EVs, it’s also going to fuck America in the long run by investing in the production of something with (ideally) dwindling demand.

      And that’s just oil/gas. There’s a lot more raw materials that are difficult and/or expensive to extract domestically but cheap to obtain through global trade.

      [1] https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/Press-Release/ft900/final_2023.pdf

  • immutable@lemm.ee
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    22 days ago

    Tariffs suck for the country implementing the tariff. But before I tell you why they suck, let me tell you the way they are supposed to help.

    Here’s the way tariffs are supposed to work according to people that like tariffs (spoiler alert, this thing I’m about to describe is a fantasy and I’ll explain why).

    Let’s say people in the US can make widgets for $10 and sell them for $12 and have a viable business. But mean old foreign country can make widgets for $5 and sell them for $7 and have a viable business. The foreign country sells the people of the US widgets for $7, which is great if you live in the US and want to buy a widget but sucks if you live in the US and want to make a widget.

    Tariffs are supposed to protect local businesses by making foreign goods less competitive. Let’s say we pass a law putting a $10 tariff on foreign widgets. I used to import widgets from foreign country and pay the manufacturer $5 per widget and sell them to Americans for $7. Now when I import the widget from the foreign country I still pay the manufacturer $5 per widget but now I have to pay the US government a tariff of $10 per widget. Each imported widget now costs me $15 and so I have to sell them for $17 to make a profit. This now means that American made widgets are competitive again, the locally made $12 widget is a great deal compared to the $17 imported one. Great if you are a US widget maker and shitty if you are a US widget buyer.

    Now you might notice the people in the US buying widgets, even in the best fantasy scenario, end up getting dicked over. The theory goes that widget making jobs are good though and if we do that enough then everyone will have to pay more for goods but we will have lots of jobs making stuff that pay ok.

    Now here’s the part that really, really sucks. Let’s say you are a US widget maker and now you know that your foreign competition can’t make a widget for less than $17. You could sell your widgets for $12 and have a viable business or you could sell them for $16.99 and have a super profitable business. I’ll just gesture broadly at the sea of corporate greed we find ourselves floating in and let you decide which is more likely.

    Tariffs induce even local manufacturers to raise prices because it hurts competition. It’s basically a massive transfer of wealth from local consumers to local producers by cutting out the foreign producers and the competitive pressure they exert on the market. This is why basically every economist said “do this and kill the economy”

    So why do people want tariffs? Well the promise for your average voter is that the tariffs are going to bring back good solid blue collar jobs. You can go work in a factory and pump out widgets and get a nice middle class paycheck. It’s a nice sales pitch and a lot of people would really want that to be true. I suspect though that the manufacturers will automate most of this work and pocket the profits, again, gestures broadly at the late stage capitalism hellscape all around us.

    • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
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      22 days ago

      there’s one layer missing, which is that the US widget makers make their widgets from ingredients and components that don’t exist in the US, if you put a tarrif on everything, you can’t make a $12 US widget any more because widget juice now costs twice as much

        • matlag@sh.itjust.works
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          22 days ago

          Since they’re about to let go all of these gov employees, they will need a lot of money to hire consulting companies for pretty much everything. That’s what started happening in France and Canada already.

          These private companies consultants are so much more efficient and cheaper than low paid gov employees who’ve been running the ship for decades. You totally believe it, right?

    • JeremyHuntQW12@lemmy.world
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      22 days ago

      Well under that logic why bother with any business expenses ?

      Why bother with labour laws, or income tax, or work insurance, or workers compo, or environmental laws ?

      Because they are all costs on business. And you can bet the foreign manufacturer doesn’t comply with anything like the US regulations.

      • tomi000@lemmy.world
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        22 days ago

        You mean those great US regulations that are among the worst on the planet?