Whats the reasoning for not being opensource? Does he resell data?
My two favorite Lemmy apps aren’t FOSS. 😬
(Sync and Connect)
And those are the ones with arguably better UIs out of all of the apps
Notice a pattern?
Connect isn’t open source? I don’t think I realized that. That’s been my main Lemmy app but I’ve been a long time Sync for Reddit user so I’ve been using that quite a bit today.
I’ve seen a lot of posts recently about FOSS. I’m not a programmer, so I don’t know anything about it. What is FOSS and does it have a big advantage over other software designs?
FOSS is free open source software, which means it doesn’t cost money and you can use it for anything you like.
In practice this means you can download these apps and modify them or contribute to them, and you always know exactly what they do (for the most part). FOSS isn’t necessarily better than paid software, nor is it necessarily worse, but it is more accessible software.
Sync is ad supported or paid which some people are against, arguing it’s monetizing free content. They don’t like the ad tracking and I strongly agree with that.
But at the end of the day, if a developer wants to get paid to write software I’m in favor of it, it’s not like this is Google or some other large Corp, it’s a single developer building and maintaining Sync (though I think the lifetime price is way off the mark).
Free as in speech, not necessarily free as in no money exchanged. The GPLv3 explicitly allows commercial use to both the creator and third parties.
it doesn’t cost money and you can use it for anything you like.
This is misrepresenting FOSS quite a bit. A lot of open source software is indeed this permissive, but not all of it. It’s important to refer to the license of each individual project because various licenses have different terms.
Some open source software may be free for personal use, but that license may not extend to other companies seeking to profit off their open source and good will. ZeroTier comes to mind as an example of this.
Further, other licenses like GPL only requires that you make your sources available upon request but you can require that your customers pay you to receive the product: i.e. RHEL. At the end of the day, FOSS means free as in speech, not free as in beer
FOSS = Free and Open Source Software
Basically it means anyone can view the code and tinker with it/look for security failures/add features for themselves, etc.
FOSS means Free and Open Source Software. Since English has two meanings for ‘free’ (one as in no cost, the other as in freedom) you’ll also see it called libre software because Latin languages differentiate between no cost (gratis) and freedom (libre).
Open source means the source code is available and required to be accessible. The Free part is you have the right to take that code and use it in other programs. Copyleft licenses like the GPL will require any program you use that code in to ALSO be licensed under the same license, giving everyone access to your code under the same conditions. Non-copyleft FOSS licenses like the BSD licenses do not require that, and allow the incorporation of the code in closed source software.
To give an example of the differences let’s use Apple. Much of OS X userspace is derived from BSD Unix, so Apple can use it and not release code. But KHTML, the KDE HTML Rendering engine they took to make WebKit, was GPL so they had to release their changes and allow others to do the same, which is how you ended up with Chrome and Edge also using and extending WebKit and now it’s basically the standard browser rendering engine.
Free and Open Source Software
It means that the source code is released and available and you can even build the code yourself. You can inspect it to make sure it’s not doing anything malicious or stupid (but more likely you can hope other people that are smarter than you will do it).
The only advantages it has really for regular end users are it’s free, and if it’s popular other developers will make apps that use it.
Yeah the audacity to charge money for dev time if they so choose :| wild. Something free market of ideas something
Sync is just so much more polished and feature-rich than all of these already… It’s exactly like how it was when it was for reddit, and it’s just one dev! I don’t mind at all paying for a fantastic app.
You guys are taking the justified corpo hate and extending it to talented individual devs just making a living.
Yeah, until he gets an attractive buyout offer from an SEO company who wants to get into data mining.
I mean, just change apps at that point? There’s no lock-in, worst case you lose what you paid to remove ads. No point getting worked up over hypothetical scenarios
Hating on someone based on unfounded hypotheticals is fucked up. LJ has always been very open with the community for the whole time Sync was on reddit.
Username checks out ig?
Except that time he disappeared for the better part of a year because some people didn’t like his Sync for Reddit revamp.
Wow, that is “hating” in your world? I wish I lived there. Take it down a notch, dude.
Yes, I am talking about potentials; potentials that simply do not exist in the FOSS world but happen every day with commercial software. A significant difference between an independent dev and a libre project is that you own the libre project. No one can ever take it away from you. You merely borrow it from the independent dev, and in that way, and speaking as a frustrated developer myself, every single one of them suck in all the same ways that every single corporation sucks. There’s no difference. That’s not hate, that’s pragmatic realism.
So what exactly is the problem here? If Sync gets bought and you don’t like the new owner, you can stop using it and move on…
FOSS isn’t about “corpo hate”. It’s about freedom. There’s a philosophy behind it. You can, of course, disagree with it, but I think you should know what you’re disagreeing with.
If the users don’t control the program, the program controls the users. With proprietary software, there is always some entity, the developer or “owner” of the program, that controls the program—and through it, exercises power over its users. A nonfree program is a yoke, an instrument of unjust power.
It’s about a very narrowly and specifically defined version of freedom, which somewhat ironically restricts people’s ability to define freedom for themselves.
I personally find Apache2, MIT, or the WTFPL a lot more free-feeling than all the restrictions GPL imposes in the name of freedom.
Your freedom to swing your arm ends at my nose. Your freedom to do whatever you want with my code ends when you want to bind other users with it.
I used to agree until I saw corporations starting to fork open source projects to run them internally like the “I made this” meme.
If I spend months or years of my life toiling over a project and license it permissively with MIT or such, they can just swoop in one day and take it for free and be like “thanks, we’re going to make mega bucks off your code and give you nothing” (and yes this does happen https://www.elastic.co/blog/why-license-change-aws).
No, screw that! I’m gonna make my stuff AGPL and those guys can damn well pay me for my time of they want to use my stuff or more cynically, do it anyway or go and reimplement it themselves in-house knowing damn well I can’t afford an army of lawyers to actually do anything about it.
Yes, the “free” in free software specifically refers to the freedom to read and modify the source code.
That’s the specific freedom we are talking about when we say “free as in freedom”.
Also, under the philosophy, permissive licenses (like MIT or BSD) is still considered free since you can see and modify the source code. The only thing the GPL strive to ensure is that this freedom will be awarded all others who interact with the fruits of your labour.
In general I strongly prefer open source, because lots of propertiary software will try to vendor lock you and then extract money from you, when it’s hard to escape for you.
In this case however I can change back to Connect or other any second, so amount of control this program has is extremely minimal and experience in exchange is better.
Informed choice is better than picking and following dogma, because dogma doesn’t work in some cases.
Yeah F locked ecosystems. Anyone can walk away from Sync if they don’t like it.
The philosophy of FOSS is very cool but for one dev Sync is way too much work to be doing for free. It has my support.
I’m talking about the community. A large part of the community absolutely is about gate-keeping and hating on corporations… and now devs too apparently.
A large part of the community absolutely is about gate-keeping and hating on corporations
I haven’t seen that at all. Hate doesn’t bring you far.
I have and it’s good and cool.
Well maybe not gatekeeping. But hating corporations…
This one is more controversial than intended. Since it’s my “fault,” I want to clear things up:
I fully support the “use whatever you want” faction. This meme wasn’t intended to be a trigger against Sync. I just want to reflect the difference between Sync and all other apps. (I missed Connect, but my abilities to create a second Teletubby aren’t the best.)
The controversy between FOSS and closed source reminds me of discussions on Reddit. It looks like we are separated into two (or more) groups: the privacy-focused FOSS nerds and the “shut up about the license, code, or ads and take my money because your product is the best working of all” group. Both groups have understandable reasons, and both can have their place in the fediverse. But don’t forget, it’s the FOSS group who started all this and early adopted (if you don’t believe me, check the age of my profile).
There’s nobody who starts an unexpected feature or starts selling your data. Lemmy is FOSS and decentralized. A closed-source app can add whatever they want. If the ad-free pro version costs 20 bucks, then all non-pro users sell with their data, and I bet it’s 20 bucks worth. Because free closed source is always free, because you are the product.
PS. I don’t want to paint worse scenarios, but remember, WhatsApp was just a closed-source wrapper of XMPP, and Chrome is based on Chromium. FOSS will always attract people who try to monetize it. Some would say: “I don’t care.” But what if the monetizers start to claim control over the development, because there are “needed features” to get more money out of it?
Oh God, now you’re doing the “me and these apps were here before it was cool” bit.
Always a bad a look
FOSS platforms with closed clients are fine, because nobody has any unilateral ability to dictate the direction of the platform. You can always choose whichever client you want, so long as the underlying platform is FOSS.
Reddit and Twitter have proven that closed platforms aren’t compatible with FOSS clients because eventually, the closed platform will force out all competing clients to monetize every last bit of traffic it can.
And honestly, I have a higher degree of trust for Sync Apps LTD than I do for most others because they have historically been above-board in their dealings and have always been user-forward in everything they do. If that changes, then it changes. And so might my decision to support them. However, considering their entire business model is and has been dependent on the continued loyalty of their user base, I doubt they will make any significant changes that could affect their reputation.
And let’s be honest, where software is concerned, there’s a reason that all software isn’t FOSS, beyond just “greedy capitalist overlords”. The overwhelming majority of FOSS software is simply not as user-friendly or, in many cases, stable or even usable to people who don’t possess a significant degree of computer software and hardware literary. Most folks don’t have the know-how or time to go combing through dozens of conflicting and outright contradictory online resources trying to figure out exactly which .lib file is causing their software to crash on startup, or to learn how the hell to use github.
Hahaha so true
-Posted from Sync™️ for Lemmy
Good day to you fellow Sync user. I also concur.
Haha yes, yes.
- Posted from lemmy.world account on Sync.
Hoho indeed
Posted
Lol
- Posted from Sync w/ Adguard DNS
Ads, what ads?
- Posted from Sync with Blokada
Right?
- I payed the Sync dev guy. He earned it.
That’s true—I’m planning to pay as well, but I’m waiting for the IAPs to sort themselves out, everyone seems to report very different prices
Same boat. Regional prices haven’t kicked in yet.
I am so happy to finally have Sync again. Was always my most used app before the API death on Reddit. Always happy to support LJ.
Sync isn’t FOSS. It’s just free.
That’s the joke
I guess FCSS doesn’t really roll off the tongue the same.
You are using a different sense of the word “free” in that acronym.
Exactly why the meme has Sync as the standout Teletubby and the FOSS text isn’t over his body. One of these things is not like the other.
All i want is a client that has posts as list mode and the ability to have different accounts with different settings and blocklists.
Connect is not the business for this, blocking one instance blocked it across all my accounts.
Sync actually allows you to set up each sub account separately.
Wtf, this isn’t about which app is better it’s about variety! The fact sync is part of a list of options is what makes fediverse great - seems everyone in the comments agree 🤷♂️ gtfo with this sync hate. I’m a big Boost fan myself but im stoked sync is finally ready for those that’ve been waiting for it! 🥳
Everyone should use whatever their heart desires, and for me the voyager app is beyond perfect (Android, PWA.) I havent used Sync so it might be better in some aspects but I am content with voyager.
P.S. If you really like a client you should donate any amount to the developer(s) to help them keep their app awesome!
Out of the Lemmy apps I tried out, Voyager is the app I used the most, and it is definitely a great app! But I did miss the smoothness and customisability of Sync, so I will most likely use that on my phone from now on.
As much as I like Voyager, I do feel like there is some slowdowns/stuttering and feeling of the GUI not always doing what I intended to do. Not a lot, but enough to sit in the back of my mind.
That being said I’m still using Voyager on the iPad and also in the browser on my PC! (Which reminds me that I should try installing the Voyager app from the iPad app store, maybe that’ll actually fix the occassional slowdowns.)
Yep long-time sync reddit user, then voyager user since coming to lemmy, now back to sync lemmy.
Voyager is still young needs a lot of stuff ironed out. But it’s on a good path I will continue to support them!
deleted by creator
I feel like i’m out of the loop. The heck is FOSS?
“Free Open Source Software”
I think.
Sync is the odd man out because even though it’s free to use, it’s ad driven, and then there’s a yearly subscription service for no ads.
Honestly, it’s a good app with a good developer. If supporting good work is your thing, I see no reason to use it free or with subscription. It supports him, and if you don’t like it…you always have FOSS apps which arent as polished but completely free.
FOSS apps are important because they’ll always be the standard of “acceptable” and alternative apps MUST be better if they want you to give up your hard earned time and money for it.
Just take a look at Reddit.
That’s free as in freedom not beer. So the big difference is that you and the community can look at the code and inspect it. Closed code you are just trusting the company behind it.
There are always ways to support Devs in Foss software as well. Just ask , everyone has somewhere to receive donations. I for one A) want to know what I run on my devices. B) don’t like to be spied on C) don’t want to support the practice of doing so. And D) I have security and privacy standards. Even if you would trust a one dev closed source project , you are just one hack away from getting something nasty on the next update.
there’s a yearly subscription service for no ads.
There’s a one-time purchase to remove ads and a subscription for other stuff that also includes removing ada
And you can buy a lifetime version of the subscription, if you want a large one time payment.
I’m mostly worried about the tracking and deta selling.
Is the tracking turned off with the pro subscription?
The dev has stated before that there’s no tracking or data collection except crash analytics
Ok neat. Well then I’m pretty tempted…
My take is; it just works. It just happen to be a pleasure to browse with the app that I paid for an ad-free experience. Yay for small devs making great products.
FOSS is great, but I love to pay for a good experience.
