Just look at Florida’s and Texas’ response compared to New York and California

Texas had the 3rd highest mortality rate, and Florida the 18th. Expected death rates should be relative to population density. Florida is 13th and Texas is 13th. Both states are dramatically over-represented per capita in US COVID deaths. Your numbers defend my side.

NY has the 7th highest population density and is past the middle of the pack in terms of deaths. California has the 11th highest population density and was middle of the pack.

The highest death states (other than the one you tried to use for your argument) were Oklahoma and Alabama. Both fairly low in population density. Care to read off the other high-death-toll states? West Virginia, Mississippi, Wyoming, Tennessee, Nevada, Arizona…

In fact, I’ll take a step further. In swing states (like Florida), the death rate of Republicans was comfortably higher than of Democrats. It led to conspiracy theories that we were secretly creating and spreading the disease, not the fact that they had literal fucking parties to spread it on purpose.

If the masks and vaxxes make you city rats feel safe then more power to you, but there was KO reason that stuff needed to be part of a global response

The reason we needed it for a global response is that if you didn’t do it, it spread to everyone and killed them. Vaccination and prevention only works when universally embraced and/or mandated. Both parties were in full agreement about that until the moment Trump started telling people to drink lysol and bleach instead (and there was a huge uptick in that!). Did you drink lysol at his suggestion?

“Doing you’re(sic) own research” is a dogwhistle of far right anti-intellectualism. It’s saying “fuck facts, it’s all a big conspiracy”.

following narratives pushed by MSM like sheep and responding with pictures of feces when presented with an opposing point of view?

With all due respect, his reply to you was dramatically more effective than me sending you facts and being reasonable and polite.

Says more about you than it does about me

It sure does. That I’m stupid enough to think that I can convince flat-earthers that the world is round merely because I’ve made a point of becoming educated, reading studies, and applying my scientific background to separate the conspiracy theories from the chaff.

I would say it is quite clearly the most direct context. If I’d written this post now, I’d also point out the quackjobs that you blindly believe and the fact that you’re taking fairly defensible references that cite their research and calling them fake news.

Yeah, it’s the bit where I’ve gotten threats on my life.

Sorry, cited the wrong dictionary I guess. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/social democrats . I’m surprised at Webster disagreeing with everyone else. I figured every dictionary would agree. The dictionaries using my definition are:

Collins, Dictionary.com, Oxford English Dictionary, Brittanica, Cambridge, Wictionary

So I’ve got mud on my face, citing the only source that disagrees with me.

But fine. If it really matters that much to a couple people, then there’s not a term for what I am. I’m not a DemSoc because I don’t realistically think we will achieve complete socialism in my lifetime and I think that’s OK in the short term as long as we improve things, and actually preferable until people actually want socialism. That doesn’t make me a capitalist.

I don’t disagree with anything you said about Biden’s past, but that doesn’t put him categorically anywhere near Trump.

I want a world where Biden represents the Right party I hate. But right now, he’s representing the only party that isn’t making a goal hurting people I love. There are dead people I care about that would be alive if Trump had lost to Hillary in 2016. There are living people I love that would be dead or hurt if Trump had won in 2020. So I call that a marginal victory.

Have you not experienced that? If not, you’re either lucky or isolated or ignorant of causes of things. If so, then how can you let those you love suffer without being angrier at the cause than the guy who is just “not that great”?

My problem isn’t people saying Biden is bad. My problem is people saying he’s as bad as Trump. As a president, he is absolutely fucking not.

Here’s your tinfoil hat. Cure for COVID, alien mind control, AND for intelligence.

other experts like Dr. Malone

A footnote reference in some early mRNA papers. And he wasn’t dismissed for his professional opinions, but for his embrace of full-on conspiracy theories. Then, he promoted hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin after we had conclusive information that it definitely was doing nothing but harm. He claimed without evidence (and known to be false) that the vaccines were causing AIDS!

Show me, show me everyone who got AIDS from the COVID vaccine, please do.

Also, both of your sources are from the CDC, another one of those institutions that has monetary (as well as other) incentives to lie to the public

But the guy who ran a large pharmaceutical company that was pitching a blend of famotidine and hydroxychloroquine as a cure for COVID is A-O-K in your book and should be trusted without question?

Understand. The people who are discredited over COVID are not discredited for holding controversial professional views, but for going batshit fucking insane across the board. And what few “controversial professional views” they held were so over the top we know have demonstration about their falsehood. There were 12.7 billion pfizer vaccines, but no increase in AIDS whatsoever.

don’t try to present these numbers to me as if they mean anything

I’m quickly learning that facts and truth don’t mean nearly as much as things that agree with your worldview. I see you going all alt-right in other threads. You’re just trolling, and looking like an ass. Do you enjoy embarrassing yourself?

Natural immunity has been shown to be FAR better than VAX immunity… for whose these measures should definitely exist

Since your measurement for a authoritative source is whether it agrees with you, IF you were wrong (you are), what kind of evidence would convince you?

I have numbers from studies ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9828372/) that put vaccine immunity about equal to natural immunity (depending on the specific vaccine), except that boosters are safer than catching COVID again and hybrid immunity (if you do catch COVID and are also vaccinated before or after) is itself much more effective than either alone.

More importantly (same ref), the vaccine is more effective than natural immunity for the severe cases of COVID that lead to hospitalization and death. A vaccinated populace will not crush the hospital and funerary systems like we experienced in 2020. An unvaccinated populace still can.

Viruses are going to spread no matter what, we don’t get to live in bubbles where nothing bad ever happens to us

Correct. Have you always been actively antivax? Got kids? Were they vaccined for smallpox? Measles? You know we basically eradicated most of those illnesses up until the antivax movement got reinvigorated by the COVID crazies?

Who said we’re important to them. You did: “If Trump somehow manages to win 2024 from jail, it’s our fault on the Left that he wins.”

Not our fault for non-voting. Our fault for making undecided voters see Biden as literally the same as Trump. Propagandists are not important to me, but I still oppose them at all costs.

You bet I am. Lesser evilism is a clearly failed strategy

So instead you just lie and pretend the lesser evil is the greater evil? Congrats, you must be young.

I saw where lesser evilism got us with Obama

I would fucking give anything if we had another boring Obama clone win in 2016. I have DACA friends. I have had many people in my life needlessly die or suffer under Trump. I used to follow a religion that George W Bush actively tried to get banned from legal US protections because he didn’t like it. And you’re telling me to my face that you approve of innocent people dying so you can punish Democrats for only giving the 5% of far-left 10% of respect. Tell me that to my face. Tell me you are happy with how things went. Until then, I will point out that Biden did more for the far-left than I ever expected. And he acted with extreme prejudice to protect the people I fucking care about most.

I’m guessing you didn’t have a lot of family or friends directly devastated by Trump’s actions? If so, how can you be so bloody heartless?

I recieve: a hawk candidate

You recieve: a third party vote

Ah yes. Perhaps the Green party. Most heavily funded by the Republicans because it gives them presidencies. I call this “taking the majority hostage”.

Social Democrat is “a supporter or advocate of a socialist system of government achieved by democratic means.”

That’s what a demsoc is. Social democrats support capitalism with social programs.

You should tell Webster they’re wrong. And Wikipedia. And Brittanica.

By their definitions, a Socdem’s insistence on using democracy at all costs is what differentiates between them and demsocs.

By why is it so important for you to insist everyone use your nonstandard definition of the terms? Also, your calling us “succdems” tells me exactly everything I need to know about your permission. If I’m not willing to murder people, I’m less than human to you enough to be given a silly nickname.

“Tankies don’t have a soul and they’re going to kill you first so it’s okay to let the nazis kill them actually” I’m a REAL leftist :D

At this moment, you’re on the wrong side of the “First they came for” poem because you’re the one rejecting the Left.

You have my sympathy. Even when I was actively involved with pro-LGBTQ movements, there were people marching for rights that that didn’t respect bisexuals.

I know, maybe Biden should agree with me on everything. That would be nice. But why should we treat everyone we don’t agree with on everything the same as Trump? Do you **really ** think Trump did that little wrong? Or that Biden did zero things better than Trump?

I’m truly disgusted by this. This black-and-white categorization of anyone who isn’t as Left as Me as “exactly the same as Adolf Hitler”. Trump quite literally preached Fascism and actively campaigned (and acted) on hurting brown people and tearing down the environment for a quick buck. Biden ran on “more middle-of-the-road shit”. They are not the same.

Who said we’re important to them. Are you so willing to let the country go to shit if you don’t get your own way? Trump’s actions killed a lot of people I knew and loved, and permanently devastated the lives of a lot of people who didn’t end up dead. I can’t say the same of Biden.

Funny how you don’t have a real rebuttal so you’ve resorted to childish drawings of pig shit

“Funny how you don’t have a real rebuttal so you’ve resorted to childish drawings of pig shit”

You realize, to the rest of us, the far-right “do the research” bullshit is actually worse and more childish than actual drawings of pig shit, right?

Honestly, as the idiot who did give you a real rebuttal, I think he was the smart one to send you the pig shit picture.

Your argument literally included “having to wear a mask that gets my face a little sweaty” as fascism, and “eye strain” as a response to mass deaths.

The right to infect and kill my neighbors so we don’t have to get our cheeks a little sweaty from a mask. Obviously.

And how many more committed suicide during lock downs?

Suicide rates go down during national emergencies. COVID-19 was no exception. Certain categories increased, but overall suicide rates went down due to COVID, not up.

How many children’s learning was negatively affect by distance learning? How many developed eye-strain staring at screens all day?

You’re right. Eye strain is definitely more important than millions of deaths.

How many who were going to die anyways had to die alone cuz of social distancing? And

This was the proper response by hospitals using their expertise, not something Biden demanded. Now you’re literally complaining about the effect of a global pandemic, not a country’s response to it.

And you can look up for yourself the developmental issues masking had on children, who rely on facial recognition to learn how to function in the world and communicate with others.

Sure, and also the children of mothers who caught COVID. When schools reopened, COVID spread like wildfire and caused just as many educational and developmental delays as entire classes were stuck at home sick. Consistently, your replies are acting like everything this pandemic did can be laid at the feet of the government that tried to respond to it, as if “no response” would mean nobody would have gotten sick, that the medical establishments (that supported government response) would have done things more to your liking.

I want to make crystal clear, COVID terrified the experts worse than it terrified the government. Those of us with advanced warning had stocked pantries before the lockdown was even someone’s bright idea.

And all those who died of covid were likely going to die of covid no matter what because they had comorbities, were elderly, or were obese and no amount of masking, vaxxing, or distancing was going to stop it because none of those things have been shown to stop the spread of the virus anyways.

This is filled with lies. You realize “obese” starts at a few pounds overweight, and obese people don’t deserve to die either.

And you say masks weren’t effective? Studies showed community mask usage caused a 70% drop in spread.. And that’s just paper/cloth masks, the weakest mask you can get. If we had enough N95’s for everyone and people didn’t throw fucking “let’s spread COVID parties” (yes, they actually fucking did), then the death toll would have been far lower. No, YOU wearing a mask isn’t going to stop YOU from getting COVID. Everyone around you wearing a mask is going to stop you from getting COVID. If you don’t think that’s a good reason to wear a mask, you’re a selfish prick.

vaxxing, or distancing was going to stop it because none of those things have been shown to stop the spread of the virus anyways.

Natural immunity didn’t happen; by the 6 month mark most COVID patients have little protection against reinfection. Terrifyingly, people are just not keeping immunity to COVID. SOMETHING stopped the spread of the virus. And it wasn’t something natural. Had no action been taken, COVID would have as many cases and casualties now as it did in 2020. Vaccines pushed the immunity rate to the magic 97% mark, where “herd immunity” starts to overcome the spread rate. Of course, now that people aren’t getting boosters, the spread rate is going up. Luckily the new mutations don’t spread as well as the original.

Its clear you’ve spent the last 3 years with your head buried in the sand

Would you have the balls to tell that to specialists who specialize in pandemic response? Prove you’re not a troll, and admit that if the supermajority of actual experts disagree with you, maybe you’re the one in the wrong.

COVID-19 had the 5th worst death toll of any pandemic in human history, and is in the top 10 of global population lost. And that was with modern medicine and (with some Republican political exceptions) reasonably aggressive global response.

COVID-19 was bad, worse than most people seem to remember. I’ve got a pandemic-trained MCE expert in my family. Everyone saw it coming when they saw the numbers, and it happened worse than expected. Hospitals overflowing capacity from just critical cases. Tent hospitals being built. They fucking activated the mass-grave contracts to store the bodies. For the first time in nearly a century. Bet you didn’t know that. OEMS doesn’t publish actions like that because they don’t want to cause further panic. It comes through a private email to paramedics (and, fwiw I thought this part silly, sent under a pseudonym that only people in the field would recognize)

For the record (not that I think you actually care about facts, but I’m putting this up there for neutral observers), the deadliness of a pandemic is not primarily driven by its death rate. Only an ignorant person would look to that first. A virus with a 0.1% death rate could end humankind. Many viruses with high death rates have less of an impact. Potentially more important factors are the spread rate (influenced by the incubation rate and contagiousness window), and immunity rates (both inherent immunity and acquired immunity). That COVID-19 was a COVID family of illness (cold family, no known cures, treatments, or immunization paths) made it worse.

Yeah, but Biden doesn’t agree with literally every single view I have on everything, so they’re both the same.

I swear, the new Communist push is just an alt-right front to get Tea Party Republicans in office again. Every time someone points out a random conservative or warhawk thing Biden did and says he’s literally worse than Trump, I die inside.

If Trump somehow manages to win 2024 from jail, it’s our fault on the Left that he wins.

I’m a Social Democrat, who used to be a Democratic Socialist. The Right sees me as a Communist and McCarthyism kicks in. Did you hear about the “Physical Removal” movement? A meme-like movement about giving the Left helicopter rides to the middle of the ocean. I lived in a farm town where 40% of the voters were overcompensating for the Right not being able to win a rural area by being very outspoken anti-left.

And then, the Left. When I considered myself to be a demsoc, I tried to hang out in LSC on reddit. Not sure if you know it, but they eventually got banned for all the death threats coming out of there. There is an attitude around some percent of Communists that non-Communist lives don’t matter. They might be a minority, but they’re outspoken.

That was what got me to realize the flaw in being a demsoc, and I shifted laterally (NOT to the Right as several people like to pretend) to Social Democrat. Then I got more death threats because Communists have a hard-on of insisting Socdems are literally the same category as fascists.

I DO think it’s weird that I’ve gotten and get death threats over my views, and I understand why so many people my age have given up having any views at all and just become “I just vote a party and go about my day” folks that are part of the problem.

How many leftists do you have to execute to earn your colors?