I hate to say this, but … the shooter IS antifa. That’s what antifa means.
It’s not an organization with member rolls. It’s a term for people who are prepared to fight fascism by any means necessary, which I think it’s clear this person thought they were doing.
It’s a shitty situation to be in if you don’t like fascism. But there’s no use in getting semantic or trying to polish facts. This is where we’re at.
Personally, I have been saying for YEARS now something that seems consistently unpopular but true: “punching Nazis” is strategically ineffective. Justified? Yeah. Gratifying? Surely. A good strategy if you don’t want to live under fascism? Definitively not. It is choosing to embrace a playing field tilted wildly against us. Like it or not, we’re now on that field.
If you’re thinking of buying a gun right now, don’t. Instead, make sure you know all your neighbors by name. Plant gardens and stock up on canned goods. Put your efforts into putting people in positions of local power who are prepared to defend against either state terrorism or militia terrorism.
We cannot win with violence. Violence may be necessary defensively, but as an offensive strategy it is a tactical mistake, and we all need to accept that.
That’s a great point: I’m not saying that you have to draw them a footbath. Sometimes violence is necessary. But it’s gotta be part of a larger strategy to remove their sources of power. Domestically, direct physical street confrontations and assassinations seem to usually belie a lack of larger strategic goal.
If you try and kill a fascist because you’re opposed to fascism, you’re a black-bloc antifascist. I suppose it could come out that the shooter was purely delusional and was trying to kill Trump for fame or because of hallucinations, but it seems pretty obvious to me that this was political violence against fascism. That’s what antifa means. Am I missing something?
Well, a black bloc is a civil disobedience technique typical to anarchist groups that has nothing to do with allegiance. It’s a tactic of concealing your identity while operating in a group, typically at a direct action event. They all wear all black. And act as a group. Hence the name. It’s not just a catch-all phrase for anti fascist action.
Fair. If you’ve got better terms, let me know. My point is that I think it would be silly to worry that the guy who tried to assassinate a fascist is going to make peaceful, non-violent antifa activists look bad. Using violence to fight fascism is the name of the game, right?
To be clear, I’m not hating on antifa. It’s a strategy, and I don’t like to fight with allies over tactics. But I think it’s silly to be engaged in violent struggle and worry about the bad press of being associated with violent struggle.
Using violence to fight fascism is the name of the game, right?
There is a lot of anarchist rhetoric to justify violence against fascists, primarily because challenging the state’s monopoly on violence is so stigmatized by mainstream politics, but violence isn’t and should never be the primary tool for fighting fascism. Characterizing it as such is gives credibility to the narrative of the right. The spectacle of violence may make it seem over-represented among the wide variety of tactics in use, but the ‘name of the game’ is ‘diversity of tactics.’
Yes, you’re missing something. You’re asserting something to be 100% true based on no evidence whatsoever. Like you said, it could also be mental illness or something else entirely.
Black-bloc is a tactic, specifically a group tactic. If the assassin’s motivation was to stop fascism, they’re antifa through the tautological technicality. But the gunman was not black-bloc.
Maga will use any excuse to crack down on groups that organize under the antifascist banner, but this will definitely be one of them.
At least wait until they say they claim the shooter was “antifa” without any evidence.
I hate to say this, but … the shooter IS antifa. That’s what antifa means.
It’s not an organization with member rolls. It’s a term for people who are prepared to fight fascism by any means necessary, which I think it’s clear this person thought they were doing.
It’s a shitty situation to be in if you don’t like fascism. But there’s no use in getting semantic or trying to polish facts. This is where we’re at.
Personally, I have been saying for YEARS now something that seems consistently unpopular but true: “punching Nazis” is strategically ineffective. Justified? Yeah. Gratifying? Surely. A good strategy if you don’t want to live under fascism? Definitively not. It is choosing to embrace a playing field tilted wildly against us. Like it or not, we’re now on that field.
If you’re thinking of buying a gun right now, don’t. Instead, make sure you know all your neighbors by name. Plant gardens and stock up on canned goods. Put your efforts into putting people in positions of local power who are prepared to defend against either state terrorism or militia terrorism.
We cannot win with violence. Violence may be necessary defensively, but as an offensive strategy it is a tactical mistake, and we all need to accept that.
I agree with your tautology, and it is an interesting point. I also agree with building communities.
I also agree with the fact that punching Nazis is ineffective.
I think the allies in WW2 brought other things to bear to solve that problem.
Punching them before they punch you would certainly be counterproductive.
That’s a great point: I’m not saying that you have to draw them a footbath. Sometimes violence is necessary. But it’s gotta be part of a larger strategy to remove their sources of power. Domestically, direct physical street confrontations and assassinations seem to usually belie a lack of larger strategic goal.
Sure would be nice if we could wait for the facts to come out instead of just pulling shit out of our asses like it’s immutable truth.
I’m saying that it’s tautological.
If you try and kill a fascist because you’re opposed to fascism, you’re a black-bloc antifascist. I suppose it could come out that the shooter was purely delusional and was trying to kill Trump for fame or because of hallucinations, but it seems pretty obvious to me that this was political violence against fascism. That’s what antifa means. Am I missing something?
MAGA types are so divorced from reality that I think it’s premature to totally dismiss this possibility.
Edit: fuckin comment AGED LIKE WINE
Yeah, on reflection, I agree.
Multiple news outlets reporting shooter is a Republican lol
Well, a black bloc is a civil disobedience technique typical to anarchist groups that has nothing to do with allegiance. It’s a tactic of concealing your identity while operating in a group, typically at a direct action event. They all wear all black. And act as a group. Hence the name. It’s not just a catch-all phrase for anti fascist action.
Fair. If you’ve got better terms, let me know. My point is that I think it would be silly to worry that the guy who tried to assassinate a fascist is going to make peaceful, non-violent antifa activists look bad. Using violence to fight fascism is the name of the game, right?
To be clear, I’m not hating on antifa. It’s a strategy, and I don’t like to fight with allies over tactics. But I think it’s silly to be engaged in violent struggle and worry about the bad press of being associated with violent struggle.
There is a lot of anarchist rhetoric to justify violence against fascists, primarily because challenging the state’s monopoly on violence is so stigmatized by mainstream politics, but violence isn’t and should never be the primary tool for fighting fascism. Characterizing it as such is gives credibility to the narrative of the right. The spectacle of violence may make it seem over-represented among the wide variety of tactics in use, but the ‘name of the game’ is ‘diversity of tactics.’
Yes, you’re missing something. You’re asserting something to be 100% true based on no evidence whatsoever. Like you said, it could also be mental illness or something else entirely.
You know what? I guess that’s fair.
I guess we’ll likely see.
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Black-bloc is a tactic, specifically a group tactic. If the assassin’s motivation was to stop fascism, they’re antifa through the tautological technicality. But the gunman was not black-bloc.
Maga will use any excuse to crack down on groups that organize under the antifascist banner, but this will definitely be one of them.
Edit: Someone has already made this point, sorry to duplicate it.