From my limited understanding, Marxism comes off as more of a lense to analyze politics and human behavior than an actual system. It also comes off as not very fascist, but fascist seeming things can come out of it, depending on your perspective. I will admit I’m not very educated in regards to political science, and I’ve just begun my foray into Marxist theory.
It’s easy to analyze and critique an economic system, it is difficult or impossible to make a perfect one. As far as I’ve seen, Marxism, and systems inspired by it, have not fared well in the real world. Something something stones, something something glass houses.
I can’t disagree with that. I think the sort of utopia that communism suggests is a natural progression back to our roots as a species, and will happen, but only after we’ve pushed for it AND survived through an inevitable apocalypse, because we done royally fucked up tbh. For right now? Well I’m just a blue collar American with no degree. I don’t know. I think socialist structure needs to be implemented for sure though, just to stop the people whove captured the wealth from royally screwing all of us over. I am not educated, or indoctrinated enough to actually debate you beyond that. In fact, I kind of just avoid people, so I’m probably not the best leftist to debate you at all.
Which roots as a species did we have a utopia? If things were perfect, people wouldn’t have sought solutions which led us to where we’re at. People, animals, even plants will always have problems. It’s just a question of what those problems are. If we don’t problems, we’ll create our own, it’s just how we’re wired.
When people talk about wanting socialism in the US, they are usually talking about something like Scandinavia. Scandinavia is rooted in capitalism, but has a social safety net. The US has the same thing, it’s just has some inefficiencies. The US has welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment, section 8 housing, social security, and various other programs. If we check out the budget it shows $4.1T being spend on these programs. People always talk about much the US spends on the military, but they are spending 5x more on social services and safety nets (socialism if we want to call it that). Police, fire departments, most roads, national parks, etc are all paid for and supported by the government through tax dollars at either a national or local level.
In terms of those who captured the wealth, I think the stat is that 90% millionaires in the US are first generation millionaires who didn’t inherit their way there. I kind of like the idea someone, regardless of their background, has a chance to make it. At least there is hope for a way way out. Form what I’ve seen with socialism it doesn’t mean everyone lives well, it just means everyone lives poorly. Instead of having some people a the top who started companies, rich politicians with their thumb on everyone. It’s still a power hierarchy, it’s just one that’s harder to rise up in. I didn’t start a business and I’m not a millionaire, but I have a 401k, so when those rich guys win, I win too, because my 401k gains value which will help me in retirement. A house and a 401k, with consistent investment over time are how most people become millionaires, and that ability doesn’t exist without those people willing to take the risk on a business… and most of them fail and end up with nothing. We see a lot of selection bias when looking at those on the top.
I’m not trying to fight you on it, or get into a big debate. I’d just tell you to keep an open mind and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. A lot of people online will paint capitalism as all bad, and socialism as a utopia. In reality, neither is perfect and a balance is probably the best we can do… and that’s what we have in the US. One can argue the tipping of the scale might be a little off, and that’s something to work on, but it doesn’t mean with throw out the whole system. I’m not saying you were going there, but I see that a lot. If those other systems were so great, I’d question why the US is still the most popular place to immigrate to for people looking for a better life. The US has more foreign born residents than anywhere else in the world, and it isn’t even close. There has to be a reason for that.
Yeah, but recall that any communist system attempted was being trampled by the capitalist countries (still is). Marxist-Leninism calls for “leaders” to guide the masses, which is definitely a straight path to another two-class system(see, USSR). Communism calls for a democratic system, which isn’t really compatible with ML (in my understanding)
From my limited understanding, Marxism comes off as more of a lense to analyze politics and human behavior than an actual system. It also comes off as not very fascist, but fascist seeming things can come out of it, depending on your perspective. I will admit I’m not very educated in regards to political science, and I’ve just begun my foray into Marxist theory.
It’s easy to analyze and critique an economic system, it is difficult or impossible to make a perfect one. As far as I’ve seen, Marxism, and systems inspired by it, have not fared well in the real world. Something something stones, something something glass houses.
I can’t disagree with that. I think the sort of utopia that communism suggests is a natural progression back to our roots as a species, and will happen, but only after we’ve pushed for it AND survived through an inevitable apocalypse, because we done royally fucked up tbh. For right now? Well I’m just a blue collar American with no degree. I don’t know. I think socialist structure needs to be implemented for sure though, just to stop the people whove captured the wealth from royally screwing all of us over. I am not educated, or indoctrinated enough to actually debate you beyond that. In fact, I kind of just avoid people, so I’m probably not the best leftist to debate you at all.
Which roots as a species did we have a utopia? If things were perfect, people wouldn’t have sought solutions which led us to where we’re at. People, animals, even plants will always have problems. It’s just a question of what those problems are. If we don’t problems, we’ll create our own, it’s just how we’re wired.
When people talk about wanting socialism in the US, they are usually talking about something like Scandinavia. Scandinavia is rooted in capitalism, but has a social safety net. The US has the same thing, it’s just has some inefficiencies. The US has welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment, section 8 housing, social security, and various other programs. If we check out the budget it shows $4.1T being spend on these programs. People always talk about much the US spends on the military, but they are spending 5x more on social services and safety nets (socialism if we want to call it that). Police, fire departments, most roads, national parks, etc are all paid for and supported by the government through tax dollars at either a national or local level.
In terms of those who captured the wealth, I think the stat is that 90% millionaires in the US are first generation millionaires who didn’t inherit their way there. I kind of like the idea someone, regardless of their background, has a chance to make it. At least there is hope for a way way out. Form what I’ve seen with socialism it doesn’t mean everyone lives well, it just means everyone lives poorly. Instead of having some people a the top who started companies, rich politicians with their thumb on everyone. It’s still a power hierarchy, it’s just one that’s harder to rise up in. I didn’t start a business and I’m not a millionaire, but I have a 401k, so when those rich guys win, I win too, because my 401k gains value which will help me in retirement. A house and a 401k, with consistent investment over time are how most people become millionaires, and that ability doesn’t exist without those people willing to take the risk on a business… and most of them fail and end up with nothing. We see a lot of selection bias when looking at those on the top.
I’m not trying to fight you on it, or get into a big debate. I’d just tell you to keep an open mind and not throw the baby out with the bathwater. A lot of people online will paint capitalism as all bad, and socialism as a utopia. In reality, neither is perfect and a balance is probably the best we can do… and that’s what we have in the US. One can argue the tipping of the scale might be a little off, and that’s something to work on, but it doesn’t mean with throw out the whole system. I’m not saying you were going there, but I see that a lot. If those other systems were so great, I’d question why the US is still the most popular place to immigrate to for people looking for a better life. The US has more foreign born residents than anywhere else in the world, and it isn’t even close. There has to be a reason for that.
Yeah, but recall that any communist system attempted was being trampled by the capitalist countries (still is). Marxist-Leninism calls for “leaders” to guide the masses, which is definitely a straight path to another two-class system(see, USSR). Communism calls for a democratic system, which isn’t really compatible with ML (in my understanding)