Those who left and those who could not flee speak of a country in ruins and decry the world’s apathy towards the humanitarian crisis and the lack of rights, mainly for women, which a UN report describes as ‘gender apartheid’
Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?
Like if you don’t give a shit…no one is going to give a harder shit about you than you will.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand this question, could you maybe rephrase it or explain your reasoning? I don’t think these women have “gained power” it seems like the opposite.
First woman quoted in the article (a refugee):
“I had a beautiful house and a job that I loved. I lived with my family, I had friends and I was pregnant. But I lost my baby, I fled my country without my husband and now I live here alone. I’m safe, but do you think I’m happy, do you think I can sleep at night knowing my family’s situation in Afghanistan?”
I saw videos at the time where some random Taliban guy would drive into a town on a moped with an AK. They would surrender millions of dollars of military equipment to him without even an argument. Sometimes there were two guys sharing the moped and the gun was on one guy’s back not even out.
Well, that sounds like propaganda videos where they had already surrendered and the taliban wanted to make it seem like all it would take was one person to make people volunteer…
But, you’re also talking about all the equipment that was expensive but neither side had the knowledge or equipment to maintain, right?
Might have been propaganda, most things are these days.
Do you have more info about what happened then? There definitely wasn’t much fighting so I was assuming the majority must have surrendered without a fight.
I never saw videos of fighting just people surrendering or fleeing. Army friends who were in Afghanistan recently said they just gave up. Would love to know if they did put any defense up.
Yeah, Afghanistan isn’t a normal country. It’s a loose collection of tribes that have been pitted against each other for centuries. There’s no unity, they’ve never really had a federal government just other countries that used militaries to try and force compliance from all the tribal leaders.
So when America left with like 2 weeks notice, everyone just went back to their tribes. The “Afghan Army” had better equipment, but it was equipment they just couldn’t maintain. After a couple weeks of fighting it would have all broken down and they’d have ran out of ammo. Meanwhile the Taliban had supply lines and decades of experience fighting with their equipment.
The Taliban is just a coalition of the most extreme tribes. One that was trained in gurellia warfare by America and is actually united in their religious extremism.
Biden extended the date to by August 31st but it fell to the Taliban ~ August 6th-15th.
Biden blames it on the Afghan Army not fighting and President fleeing the country. He is probably deflecting but I am not seeing anything about the Taliban having any major military victories or strategy besides showing up and announcing themselves.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they had eventually won with their experience like you said but it doesn’t appear that they needed to fight.
Yup. One of the first things we did in the invasion of Afghanistan was ally with the northern tribes. The Taliban mainly represent one ethnic group and constantly engaged in ethnic cleansing of Shia, other tribes, and various minorities.
They have had millennia of engaging in guerilla warfare, you could probably go back to the days of Alexander the Great.
I wonder if it was “hard” or “I want the Taliban to take over.” There’s probably a decent amount of people in that area that can fundamentally agree with the Taliban. it’s a religious and oppression group. If you’re ideologically aligned with the Taliban, and male, you’re probably either as good or better of under them.
Not saying this is everything but I imagine there’s at least some people who are ok with the new government, mostly because they don’t care about others over their own self.
Yeah man, I feel sorry for the people who will have to live under the fucking Taliban, but we’ve spent way too much time, money and blood on Afghanistan already.
We shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but for them to just instantly roll over to the Taliban… Just compare it to Ukraine, where they are fighting for their lives and freedom against a much more powerful enemy.
It’s long past time for Afghanistan to deal with their own problems.
it’s like; imagine if more than half your military 🪖 had to leave?
the guys who occupied and couldn’t bring a full democracy and hold a full democracy ( because they’re a flawed democracy themselves) just all up and left. And the folks who are there are outnumbered / have barely any experience compared to taliban in combat, know that they’d be out of supplies or maintenance/ ETC…
Why 😮 wouldn’t they knowing that they’d be totally lit, just give up ?
I never thought about this at the time. It was all just shocking and frankly pathetic. Didn’t realize the men had the least at stake, while women had the most, but were not allowed to join the fight. Many men probably didn’t care or even resented the “changes”. (Women’s rights. Sounds familiar. MAGA?) Unwilling to put up any kind of fight for that kind of future for their partners and daughters.
I wonder what most Afghan women think of these men now. And if joining the military was ever a realistic possibility, and could have changed the result.
Yeah, like what do they expect? Another foreign military intervention?
That will not happen again for decades at best. Longer if all the developed nations really learn from America’s mistake this time.
Sure, we can sanction them, but any aid just gets intercepted, so that’s out. It sucks so many Afghans are suffering under the system, but it’s the system they let happen. Did they want to be an occupied country forever? Was this a fight America was expected to wage indefinitely? Twenty years was already too long.
Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?
Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?
Like if you don’t give a shit…no one is going to give a harder shit about you than you will.
The ANA never had very good moral, just read the experiences of US troops with them.
First of all, none of these women were in that army so painting this as the consequences of their actions seems a bit dishonest.
Second, I remember when they were alleged to have a phenomenal army but it turned out most of that was on paper not real.
The facade crumbled.
What makes you think that these women who choose their culture as dignity would oppose their rulers which they gained power from it?
I’m sorry but I don’t understand this question, could you maybe rephrase it or explain your reasoning? I don’t think these women have “gained power” it seems like the opposite.
First woman quoted in the article (a refugee):
I wonder how things would have turned out if the US had built up divisions of the Afghan army with women.
I saw videos at the time where some random Taliban guy would drive into a town on a moped with an AK. They would surrender millions of dollars of military equipment to him without even an argument. Sometimes there were two guys sharing the moped and the gun was on one guy’s back not even out.
Well, that sounds like propaganda videos where they had already surrendered and the taliban wanted to make it seem like all it would take was one person to make people volunteer…
But, you’re also talking about all the equipment that was expensive but neither side had the knowledge or equipment to maintain, right?
Might have been propaganda, most things are these days.
Do you have more info about what happened then? There definitely wasn’t much fighting so I was assuming the majority must have surrendered without a fight.
I never saw videos of fighting just people surrendering or fleeing. Army friends who were in Afghanistan recently said they just gave up. Would love to know if they did put any defense up.
About why the Taliban took over so quickly?
Yeah, Afghanistan isn’t a normal country. It’s a loose collection of tribes that have been pitted against each other for centuries. There’s no unity, they’ve never really had a federal government just other countries that used militaries to try and force compliance from all the tribal leaders.
So when America left with like 2 weeks notice, everyone just went back to their tribes. The “Afghan Army” had better equipment, but it was equipment they just couldn’t maintain. After a couple weeks of fighting it would have all broken down and they’d have ran out of ammo. Meanwhile the Taliban had supply lines and decades of experience fighting with their equipment.
The Taliban is just a coalition of the most extreme tribes. One that was trained in gurellia warfare by America and is actually united in their religious extremism.
Trump signed an agreement with the Taliban on February 29th, 2020 to withdraw by May 1st 2021. Most troops were withdrawn.
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/
Biden extended the date to by August 31st but it fell to the Taliban ~ August 6th-15th.
Biden blames it on the Afghan Army not fighting and President fleeing the country. He is probably deflecting but I am not seeing anything about the Taliban having any major military victories or strategy besides showing up and announcing themselves.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they had eventually won with their experience like you said but it doesn’t appear that they needed to fight.
Edit:
On second thought, there’s no point in replying anymore.
Yup. One of the first things we did in the invasion of Afghanistan was ally with the northern tribes. The Taliban mainly represent one ethnic group and constantly engaged in ethnic cleansing of Shia, other tribes, and various minorities.
They have had millennia of engaging in guerilla warfare, you could probably go back to the days of Alexander the Great.
I wonder if it was “hard” or “I want the Taliban to take over.” There’s probably a decent amount of people in that area that can fundamentally agree with the Taliban. it’s a religious and oppression group. If you’re ideologically aligned with the Taliban, and male, you’re probably either as good or better of under them.
Not saying this is everything but I imagine there’s at least some people who are ok with the new government, mostly because they don’t care about others over their own self.
The Afghan army seemed totally incompetent. Examples:
The Afghan army was just created to boost weapon sales for the MIC. Training and everything else were afterthoughts.
Yeah man, I feel sorry for the people who will have to live under the fucking Taliban, but we’ve spent way too much time, money and blood on Afghanistan already.
We shouldn’t have been there in the first place, but for them to just instantly roll over to the Taliban… Just compare it to Ukraine, where they are fighting for their lives and freedom against a much more powerful enemy.
It’s long past time for Afghanistan to deal with their own problems.
Lol 😂😆
it’s like; imagine if more than half your military 🪖 had to leave?
the guys who occupied and couldn’t bring a full democracy and hold a full democracy ( because they’re a flawed democracy themselves) just all up and left. And the folks who are there are outnumbered / have barely any experience compared to taliban in combat, know that they’d be out of supplies or maintenance/ ETC…
Why 😮 wouldn’t they knowing that they’d be totally lit, just give up ?
smh
They should have trained the Afghani women who have an actual reason to fight against the Taliban, instead of the lazy men who instantly capitulated.
I never thought about this at the time. It was all just shocking and frankly pathetic. Didn’t realize the men had the least at stake, while women had the most, but were not allowed to join the fight. Many men probably didn’t care or even resented the “changes”. (Women’s rights. Sounds familiar. MAGA?) Unwilling to put up any kind of fight for that kind of future for their partners and daughters.
I wonder what most Afghan women think of these men now. And if joining the military was ever a realistic possibility, and could have changed the result.
Kipling has some lines about what happens when you give Afghan women knives
Yeah, like what do they expect? Another foreign military intervention?
That will not happen again for decades at best. Longer if all the developed nations really learn from America’s mistake this time.
Sure, we can sanction them, but any aid just gets intercepted, so that’s out. It sucks so many Afghans are suffering under the system, but it’s the system they let happen. Did they want to be an occupied country forever? Was this a fight America was expected to wage indefinitely? Twenty years was already too long.
You didn’t read the Afghanistan Papers did you?
You gonna link or
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/documents-database/
There is also a book by the same name. I also recommend the documentary Bitter Lake by Adam Curtis.