Palestinians are not Hamas. Hamas are the only group who is even pretending to offer a solution to the ongoing subjugation of Palestinians. This situation didn’t start yesterday, its been created and shaped by 70 years of racism and atrocities committed by the Israeli state.
You should call for Israel to legally enfranchise Palestinians, for Israel to openly state that racism against Palestinians is wrong and apologize for the children women and elderly they have murdered. This situation will end when Israel undoes the harm it continues to perpetuate against Palestine, or else when they succeed in committing a genocide. Subjugated peoples who have been denied their rights will resort to violence. And rapists and other sick vile people will take advantage of the situation to commit disgusting unforgivable acts. Its possible to continue to call for Israel to cease apartheid while condemning the actions of those committing indiscriminate rape and murder.
I agree with everything you said about Isreal, and even that violence from Palestinians is expected given the circumstances. But I’d ask, what is Hamas goal? To free the Palestinians or to entrench their political power within Gaza? If their goal is the former, this attack seems entirely counter productive. Bibi led a fractured government engulfed in protests over his reforms to the supreme court, with reservists promising not to show up for duty as a result. Hamas just cured that problem, Bibi’s government is united and reservists are showing up in record numbers. In America, there was a growing political movement for recognizing the vast problems and human rights abuses in Israel, to the point where Biden didn’t invite Bibi to the Whitehouse given progressive pressure and the pro Israel lobby starting to freak out. That’s gone, killing civilians at a festival, including American citizens, just snuffed out whatever political resistance to the Israel orthodoxy that existed in America. Bibi now has the political freedom to engage in a ground invasion, if not all out genocide in Gaza, and anybody who calls it out will be forced into a position of answering for the murder and rape and other attrocities carried out by Hamas. Nobody is going to go out of their way to defend terrorists who target civilians. If Hamas wanted liberation of Palestinians, they did that cause immense violence this weekend.
If, on the other hand, Hamas wants to secure power, to keep the people in Gaza angry and looking to Hamas for revenge, then this assault and the predictable Israeli response will do that cause wonders.
Well, I mean, there won’t be much left to control if Israel carries out what they’re saying they’re going to carry out.
I’m not defending Hamas or the actions taken. You are right, the consequences for Palestinians incurred from this will be nightmarish. I’m condemning the actions of Israel, and more broadly the characterization of Israel’s actions as constituting some kind of “self defense”. As I stated in a comment earlier, you wouldn’t say that native Americans who fought back against their colonizing oppressors were the aggressors in the situation. The context within which acts of violence happen is important.
I’m well aware that had I been there, had I been present at that festival it could have just as easily been me who suffered these acts of violence. I have no interest in defending those acts or the people who committed them. I am horrified that we may be witnessing the beginning of a mass culling of Palestinians. I am horrified that genocide could result from this, and that America and most western nations would aide that genocide in occurring.
Bingo. This is Hamas last grasp to retrench it’s support and benefactors in the Arab world, which unfortunately coincides with the exact time that America was FINALLY starting to come around, but that’s all dead now. The music festival rape and murder party, that they filmed, ended that.
I honestly don’t think the American and world reaction would have been nearly as strong if they just had slaughtered settlers and IDF. Soldiers are always a legitimate target, and settlers aren’t a very sympathetic group as whole. I’m not justifying killing them, but that music festival was such a horrific display of barbarism and saddism that it killed any meaningful western political support to try and reasonably restrain the tragedy in Gaza that is beginning to unfold.
Palestinians are not Hamas. Hamas are the only group who is even pretending to offer a solution to the ongoing subjugation of Palestinians. This situation didn’t start yesterday, its been created and shaped by 70 years of racism and atrocities committed by the Israeli state.
You should call for Israel to legally enfranchise Palestinians, for Israel to openly state that racism against Palestinians is wrong and apologize for the children women and elderly they have murdered. This situation will end when Israel undoes the harm it continues to perpetuate against Palestine, or else when they succeed in committing a genocide. Subjugated peoples who have been denied their rights will resort to violence. And rapists and other sick vile people will take advantage of the situation to commit disgusting unforgivable acts. Its possible to continue to call for Israel to cease apartheid while condemning the actions of those committing indiscriminate rape and murder.
I agree with everything you said about Isreal, and even that violence from Palestinians is expected given the circumstances. But I’d ask, what is Hamas goal? To free the Palestinians or to entrench their political power within Gaza? If their goal is the former, this attack seems entirely counter productive. Bibi led a fractured government engulfed in protests over his reforms to the supreme court, with reservists promising not to show up for duty as a result. Hamas just cured that problem, Bibi’s government is united and reservists are showing up in record numbers. In America, there was a growing political movement for recognizing the vast problems and human rights abuses in Israel, to the point where Biden didn’t invite Bibi to the Whitehouse given progressive pressure and the pro Israel lobby starting to freak out. That’s gone, killing civilians at a festival, including American citizens, just snuffed out whatever political resistance to the Israel orthodoxy that existed in America. Bibi now has the political freedom to engage in a ground invasion, if not all out genocide in Gaza, and anybody who calls it out will be forced into a position of answering for the murder and rape and other attrocities carried out by Hamas. Nobody is going to go out of their way to defend terrorists who target civilians. If Hamas wanted liberation of Palestinians, they did that cause immense violence this weekend.
If, on the other hand, Hamas wants to secure power, to keep the people in Gaza angry and looking to Hamas for revenge, then this assault and the predictable Israeli response will do that cause wonders.
Well, I mean, there won’t be much left to control if Israel carries out what they’re saying they’re going to carry out.
I’m not defending Hamas or the actions taken. You are right, the consequences for Palestinians incurred from this will be nightmarish. I’m condemning the actions of Israel, and more broadly the characterization of Israel’s actions as constituting some kind of “self defense”. As I stated in a comment earlier, you wouldn’t say that native Americans who fought back against their colonizing oppressors were the aggressors in the situation. The context within which acts of violence happen is important.
I’m well aware that had I been there, had I been present at that festival it could have just as easily been me who suffered these acts of violence. I have no interest in defending those acts or the people who committed them. I am horrified that we may be witnessing the beginning of a mass culling of Palestinians. I am horrified that genocide could result from this, and that America and most western nations would aide that genocide in occurring.
Bingo. This is Hamas last grasp to retrench it’s support and benefactors in the Arab world, which unfortunately coincides with the exact time that America was FINALLY starting to come around, but that’s all dead now. The music festival rape and murder party, that they filmed, ended that.
I honestly don’t think the American and world reaction would have been nearly as strong if they just had slaughtered settlers and IDF. Soldiers are always a legitimate target, and settlers aren’t a very sympathetic group as whole. I’m not justifying killing them, but that music festival was such a horrific display of barbarism and saddism that it killed any meaningful western political support to try and reasonably restrain the tragedy in Gaza that is beginning to unfold.