By Henri Astier BBC News
Israel has suggested that the long-term aim of its military campaign in Gaza is to sever all links with the territory.
Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said that once Hamas had been defeated, Israel would end its “responsibility for life in the Gaza Strip”.
Before the conflict, Israel supplied Gaza with most of its energy needs and monitored imports into the territory.
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That’s… not bad?
Destroy people’s homes, utilities, food, etc, then pulling out and saying “not my problem” while people die from lack of basic necessities and medical care as a result of Israel’s destruction and Israel does a pikashocked face while continuing to do whatever they can to limit aid getting in still seems pretty bad. Like, better than stealing the Territory…
It is a long term goal, not immediate goal. Having Palestine state (without Hamas) responsible for itself is a good thing.
Seeing promising things about a 2 state solution being discussed at the Cairo peace summit. Let’s hope after the violence cooler heads prevail and we can see a lasting peace in the region.
I would just expect another militant group to take their place. Every bombing essentially creates a new radicals. Would you really expect Palestinians to just forget about all their dead realitives?
I hope they will remember why they have dead relatives. A lot of Germans died too during WW2, but they did make right conclusions.
See people always say this, but it isn’t some universal truth. Often people get exhausted and would prefer a shaky peace with a compromise over writing about random bombs and rockets.
The IRA and Ireland (I’ve often seen people comparing Hamas to the IRA situation, but just imagine if the IRA had been demanding not only a united Ireland, but they also wanted England, Scotland, and Wales too). ETA and basque country. Although there are a lot more extremist groups in that region that could take hold, I will admit. Which is why Israel is likely planning on a wider more strict dmz until peace can be agreed upon and sustained. And if it cannot, then Gaza should probably work on their Egyptian diplomatic relations and a 3 state solution is more likely here.
Because even if you want to think bad things about Israel’s government, they are working hard on diplomacy in the region and do not want repeated war with Gaza to sidetrack it. They were supposed to have diplomatic talks with Saudi Arabia until Hamas attacked them. Already have them with several Arab league nations. A large dmz, Hamas removed from power, and Gaza being forced to work with Egypt might accomplish that.
They’ll steal the territory after they’ve starved out anyone who was able to resist it.
Why would they do that? They pulled out of the territory in 2004 in an attempt at peace. Every Jew who wanted to live there has been forced out.
Edit: responded to the wrong comment.
Really? No settlers on Palestinian land since 2004? Really?
0 in the Gaza Strip. 0 in the land that Hamas administers. 0 amongst the people that started the conflict.
They are talking about Gaza.
They had complete control of Gaza and the whole Sinai Peninsula. Which quadrupled the size of land Israel controlled. But they gave control back to Egypt to make peace in 1978. Then in 2004-05 they completely withdrew from Gaza and dismantled and (sometimes forcefully) removed all settlements and settlers in an attempt at making peace.
Now in the first situation since for 45 years, the two groups have maintained peace. The other Arab nations were less peaceful with Israel, however. Islamic jihadists even assassinated Sadat. But there has been peace with Israel.
In the second, they used it an opportunity to essentially become a terrorist controlled territory. And increased the attacks. And reject any peace negotiations.
So what should Israel do? What solution might you suggest.
If they want to make Gaza a independent state, then let them have unrestricted maritime trade access with the world. Build them enough water and power capability to self sustain - then they can truly say ‘we did all that we could do, our responsibility is over’
This escape from new york style prison city with no trade, no water, no electricity, and no imports, isn’t going to make peaceful neighbors.
Populations that co-depend on each other for economic success are more peaceful, trade, and integration are keys to long term stability.
Well it’ll be a DMZ inside Gaza with a very hard border that nothing may cross so it will all be Egypt’s problem.
It’s disengenuous. People complain about Gaza not having enough of its own water or electricity infrastructure and relying on Israel, but up until now Israel has required Gaza to get their permission on any new construction. So Israel have been holding Gaza hostage via water and now they’re cutting them off and making excuses for it.
It doesn’t help when the government in the region digs up infrastructure to construct weapons with and makes hype videos about it.
That’s very true, however I don’t believe Gaza had sufficient water supplies even before then.
The whole issue is a mess, with so many bad actors on both sides.
Gaza has a sizeable aquifer and it’s received enough aid where it could have and should have built desalination plants to augment it’s water supply (but instead spent that money on Condos in Qatar).
Man good point. Glad the Israelis aren’t using any weapons that are disproportionately more effective on a captive populace. The prisoners shouldn’t fight back against their oppressor through whatever desperate means they have available. Please die and suffer in silence, Palestinians.
I know right. Imagine they used air burst munitions or. Cheaper mass artillery barrages rather than the primary kinetic and precision strikes they use now. It would look like Eastern Ukraine in Gaza.
Ah yes, because the current bombing campaign against civilians and civilian infrastructure has been very humanitarian. So glad Israel has been showing “restraint”. Never mind the white phosphorous too, very legal and very restrained.
Do you know how and why wp rounds get used? You mark a target with wp rounds and now it has an IR signature. So your artillery round can be a single “smart” round that hits your target.
Without wp you’d need to send dozens of rounds in to only probabilistically hit your target and if there was unexpected wind or pressure you might need to try multiple times. That would level whole neighborhoods and sometimes would level them as a “miss”.
People talk about wp rounds like they’re mustard gas or something. It’s a wp round per target or it’s 10-40 artillery rounds per target.
How about, no rounds per target?
I love how you’re debate-lording me on the specifics of how civilians, children and their infrastructure get blown to bits. Even if you could justify it in that way, that shit is still a war crime for a reason.
It’s not a war crime though. That’s the point. They’re not specifically targeting civillians. They’re targeting dual use infrastructure.
That’s not making the point you intended.
My bad. Imagine civilians killed in the original slave raid weren’t Jewish.
They weren’t, the first civilian bombing in the conflict is objectively the bombing of a hotel that housed the Palestinian embassy of sorts, killed like 91.
Pointing fingers in this conflict is a bit idiotic, the protagonists are all ultra religious shitheads fucking over huge populations because of story time interpretations.
Details on the hotel bombing?
When the ruling party have publicly stated and action supported main goal in destruction of Jewish state, it is called security measure.
So they give them water and electricity it is because they are holding them hostage. But they take it away and that is also bad. So they need to offer Schrodinger’s utilities?
They keep them reliant on water from Israel by preventing them from building new infrastructure. At no point has Gaza had a sufficient water supply.
Now correct me if I’m wrong, but this is the same group of people who, on video, showed how they dig up pipes to use for rockets right?
Yep, rocketing themselves in the foot-shaped hospital with that - or at least their government are. Even so, before they dug it all up I don’t think they had sufficient infrastructure.
It’s such a complex set of issues you can always whataboutism almost any point. Not that I’m knocking you for doing it.
Wouldn’t it be a better solution though inevitably? I know nothing about the region so please don’t take offense, just seems if Palestine was granted autonomy while it would be rocky at first being free to govern themselves would probably be good in the end right or am I missing a lot on the situation?
There isn’t a happy ending here. They have nothing that makes a successful state.
Probably, however I don’t really think that Israel are looking to offer a better solution for Palestinians here.
Nah, definitely not especially right now.