PARIS, Nov 27 (Reuters) - Six teenagers go on trial behind closed doors on Monday, accused of involvement in the beheading of French history teacher Samuel Paty by a suspected Islamist in 2020 in an attack that struck at the heart of the country’s secular values.

The teacher had shown his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad in a class on freedom of expression, angering a number of Muslim parents. Muslims believe that any depiction of the Prophet is blasphemous.

  • CrabLangEnjoyer@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I’m sorry what? 2.5 years? Is that a joke? Those animals should never set foot outside prison walls again no matter their age.

    • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Did you just read the headline and get outraged without pausing for even a second to think “2.5 years for murder and mutilation can’t be right, I better read the article”?

      • CrabLangEnjoyer@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        No I read the article, they got upset because someone showed Mohammed (allegedly) in class and then got him murdered over it. They are just as guilty as the psycho that actually beheaded him and are unfit for western society. I don’t care if they rot in prison or on a psych ward for mentally ill people they just should never be allowed back into society

        • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          We aren’t in the courts to decide that, the evidence is never going to be public for us to make that assumption

        • homoludens@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          unfit for western society. I don’t care if they rot in prison or on a psych ward for mentally ill people they just should never be allowed back into society

          Because people never change, especially 14 year olds. /s

        • PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          You sound pretty eager to be xenophobic to me. They haven’t been convicted yet, but you’ve already decided they committed an act equal to beheading, with full knowledge of what was about to happen, and deserving of being imprisoned forever, without needing to even hear their side of the story (which could easily be “I was 14 and a murderer demanded information that wouldn’t have been difficult for them to find elsewhere”).

        • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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          1 year ago

          None of that happened and you’re starting to look a lil racist, bruh.

          On 16 October 2020, a week and a half after Paty’s freedom-of-speech class, Anzorov was driven to Paty’s school by an alleged accomplice and waited outside the gates of the school. He asked a number of students to point out the teacher.[58][23] He paid two students, aged 14 and 15, around €300 to identify Paty; the two then waited with Anzorov for two hours until they sighted Paty leaving.[59] A Friday, it was the last schoolday before a two-week holiday.[60] Anzorov had told them he intended to “hit” and “humiliate” Paty, according to Jean-François Ricard, in order to “make him apologise for the cartoon of the Prophet Muhammad”.[59]

          He paid two students he’d never met before money for the information after telling them he was just going to hit him and shame him a bit.

          C’mon bruh, you can do better than this.

    • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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      1 year ago

      The five other minors to be prosecuted, aged between 14 and 15 at the time of the attack, will be charged with premeditated criminal conspiracy, or ambush.

      They are suspected of having pointed out Paty to the murderer or helped monitor his exit from the school.

      They weren’t involved in the killing, they are guilty of pointing him out.

          • meat_popsicle@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            If you play by felony murder rules, they’re just as guilty since they participated in the planning and actively participated (by waiting for / stalking the victim and pointing him out to their co-conspirator).

            In some places if you help plan and participate in a crime that results in a death you’re equally culpable of the murder - even if you weren’t in the same room as the killing. Escape car drivers frequently get death row for a murder that happened in the course of the crime.

            • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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              1 year ago

              The dude showed up at their school and found some 14 year olds that would tell him who the teacher was for money.

              He also told them he was just going to make the teacher apologize, not cut his fucking head off, my guy.

              Slow your roll with sticking some tricked dumb kids to prison for life over some shit they had no control over to begin with.

          • Fenrisulfir@lemmy.ca
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            1 year ago

            Which part of “helped monitor his exit” did you not get? They stalked him with the intent to assist the assassination. By your logic, many people aren’t actually criminals because they’re not the ones who actually carried out the murder, they just directed it.

            I’m not saying they should get the death penalty but what they did was heinous and deserves more than 2.5 years.

            • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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              1 year ago

              And yet, still they are not responsible for killing and beheading him, the adult who did it is.

              Nowhere does it state your xenophobic assumptions about how you feel over the event.

              For all they knew he was going to simply speak with the teacher, or maybe kick his ass.

              Tell me, why do you assume so freely that all of the Muslim kids were deeply involved in the beheading itself? I find that very interesting…

              • Fenrisulfir@lemmy.ca
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                1 year ago

                Where did I say they were directly involved in the beheading? I know xenophobic is a big word for you but you should still look up the definition before just tossing it around like that.

                • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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                  1 year ago

                  You speak of me needing to improve my literacy and yet you’re the one confusing deeply involved with directly.

                  Unless you’re just backpedaling and attempting to obfuscate the point, now.

                • money_loo@1337lemmy.com
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                  1 year ago

                  Did we?

                  The only source I can find on such a thing is post Nuremberg trials, and it was ten nazi generals that definitely deserved it.

                  I did find a source for 23,000 out of 35,000 deserting Nazis were killed by their own party for fleeing war, so maybe you were thinking of that while being a nazi?

                  • duviobaz@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    1 year ago

                    The point is that you do not actually need to have killed anyone yourself for you to get the most severe punishment available. If they’re a fascist, put them before a court and let them be judged. But there’s a problem. The people are not yet antagonized against fascism enough. Too many people are accepting or indifferent of it.

    • Dremor@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      They are not the perpetrators, and were kids at the time. Kids are easily influenced, and make mistakes, a lot of them.

      In this case those mistakes ended up causing the gruesome death of an innocent teacher, that is why they are on trial. If someone is guilty, it is their parents, who failed to educate them, and those who exploited those weaknesses to put them under their influence.

      • TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        They are not the perpetrators, and were kids at the time. Kids are easily influenced, and make mistakes, a lot of them.

        Im sorry but my mistakes as a kid were breaking windows not beheading people.

        • Dremor@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          In this case it is more selling information about the victim to the perpetrator.

          The tribunal task will be to evaluate if they knew what the perpetrator was about to do, in which case their punishment will be harsher, or if they didn’t.

      • capital@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Let those of us who weren’t involved in a religiously charged murder cast the first stone.

        Wait…

        • Dremor@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t know for you, but most of us aren’t. Throwing stones at them will only lower us at the same level as those who beheaded others for their fanatical ideology. Let justice do its work.

          • capital@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Na dawg, I’m poking fun at your “look, we all make mistakes” sentiment when we’re talking about fucking murder.

            Sorry, simply assisting a murder.

            And because you seem confused, this is what it means to cast stones in this context: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/cast+the+first+stone

            Better believe I’m comfortable casting this particular stone.

            • Dremor@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I’m not confused, I know this idiom very well.

              I was writing from a juridical view point, not from an emotional one. Like everyone I want them to be punished, but in accordance with their fault, not with the emotion, albeit legitimate, that teacher murder created. Once again, they are kids, or maybe should I say teens, with limited life experiences, easily swayed by those who offer them a seemingly strong identity, like every teenager strives to find at that period of their life.

              A strong punishment is necessary, but not as strong as if they were full fledged adults.

              Usually in France, at that age, sentences are in most cases cut in half of what an adult would get. Exception for life sentences, in which case it is the “surety period”, during which they cannot be released no matter what, which will be cut in half.

      • interceder270@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Kids are easily influenced, and make mistakes, a lot of them.

        And adults aren’t? Tired of this nonsense that people reach a certain age and all of a sudden they can tell right from wrong.

        Were you one of those kids who couldn’t tell right from wrong? I wasn’t, and neither were most of my peers. It’s a cultural issue, not an age one.

        • Dremor@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I mostly agree with you.

          It is more of a legal shortcut, but it is a useful one if we don’t want to have to do psychological expertise and possibly counter-expertise for every case to determine if someone is mature enough or isn’t.

          I know some man-childs that never got past a teenager maturity, as well as teenagers who have more maturity than many “adults”.

          But laws have to be precise for many reasons, and the age of legal responsibility has many reasons to exist other than this case.

          Still, adults are mostly less immature than kids, as they had the time to mature (albeit not everyone, unfortunately).

          More life experience means it is easier for adults to discern bullshit from truth, and thus their responsibility is considered as full in the case they make mistakes.

          A kid tribunal task is as much to discern how mature a kid is as it is to sentence them to a just punishment.

          Edit : merging two answers to the same comment.

    • Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      These kids haven’t killed anyone. A weird guy told them who is the teacher who’s insulted Muhamad, here is 300 EUR, I’ll teach him to not do it again

      They couldn’t guess what was about to happen, and now live with the guilt and trauma which is a worse sentence than any jail time

      • anlumo@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You’re presuming a state of mind, just as the other people you’re arguing against are. We don’t know if they regret it or not and never will.