Calls are growing for the UN Security Council to be reformed after the US became the only member to use its veto power to block a Gaza ceasefire resolution, a move welcomed by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The UN chief says he will keep pushing for peace.

  • Linechecker@monero.town
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    1 year ago

    Things just dont make sense. Hamas, a very weak power, sneak attacks Israel, a relatively strong power, then hides amongst the civilian population with military targets scattered throughout neighborhoods and municipalities.

    Is Hamas surprised by the mass civilian casualties or are you (the reader) the one who is surprised? Is Hamas actually weaponizing their civilians by showing the world how many are dying and being an agent of change in the UN?

    Is Hamas considering these civilian deaths as martyrs? Because martyrdom is not the same as innocent death.

    • Szymon@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      Hamas might be, but the millions of non-terrorist Palestinian’s lives are worth more than to end as collateral damage.

    • 4am@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      You’re god damn right I’m surprised.

      If terrorists hid in your family’s basement and then your family home and all those in it, plus their whole neighborhood, was wiped off the face of the earth, you’d sing a real different tune then.

      Try to imagine Palestinians as real people, instead of faceless terrorists who “sealed their fate” when they “supported the wrong side” (basically just by existing).

    • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one
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      1 year ago

      You left out the part where Israel, of their own accord, goes in and kills these civilians to retaliate against what you’ve stated as a “very weak power.”

    • PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Picture a bank hostage situation. Police officer comes in with a fully loaded gun. A bank teller is being held at gunpoint by the robber. Never once in the history of ever has the police officer shot the bank teller.

      That’s what Israel is doing.

      • Linechecker@monero.town
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        1 year ago

        Thanks for clarifying for me. Didn’t realize it was such a simple scenario like a bank robbery.

        • Jaded@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 year ago

          You clearly can’t grasp the real complicated scenario so he gave you a simplified version to make it easier to understand.

          Anyone with even an ounce of empathy understands why Israel bombing children is always unacceptable. Nobody should need to explain it to you really

          • Linechecker@monero.town
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            1 year ago

            So, which is less acceptable:

            Hamas, a military threat to Israel who hides behind children.

            Or

            Israel, a country with a military who is responding to military threats in a way a military would.

            BTW, my original post is asking questions, but you Lemmy Users just keep making it seem I’m pro Israel just for asking.

            • kurwa@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              But is Israels actions appropriate? Indiscriminate bombing across all of Gaza? Collective punishment? If they really wanted to A) save hostages and B) take out those responsible, they could do a surgical strike with special forces. Raining hellfire upon innocent people just because their might be hamas there is absolutely disgusting.

                • kurwa@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Israel commiting genocide is awful. Hamas is just a response to that.

                • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  As you laid out your question, probably (cynically), hamas. The world has been happy to tolerate some incredibly awful governments - especially if you start looking at African dictators.

                  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    If you look at Nelson Mandela and the ANC in South Africa you’ll find they did the same thing as Hamas to get rid of the Apartheid.

                    When asking nicely didn’t work they started asking less nicely.

            • Jaded@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              1 year ago

              Both are unacceptable but clearly Israel is more so. In a hostage situation, you don’t bomb the neighborhood. I’d also like to point out that nobody is really defending Hamas, which is more acceptable is missing the point entirely.

              Israel has serious military advantage, they can basically force a cease fire at any time. They aren’t under threat and tbh, probably let the events that started all this happen for causus belli.

              The article talks about a mostly symbolic UN vote that was vetoed by the US at the request of Israel. They don’t want a ceasefire, they don’t want their hostages back, they don’t want a solution.

              They just want to keep bombing.

              • Linechecker@monero.town
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                1 year ago

                I’ll agree israel is worse in hindsight, but Hamas kicked this off with this sneak attack that has led to this situation, so I’d say that is worse. Hamas was so successful in causing an Israeli intelligence disaster, which I feel like caused their military to lash out. All militaries do is destroy, they are not nation builders. Surgical special force operations can take a long time to plan and wouldn’t work since there were so many hostages and they kept moving them around.

                • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
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                  1 year ago

                  What about the decades before this where Israel had been killing people, imprisoning without charges, and forcing them off their land? When that’s added for context, Israel is the one who kicked this off.

      • eric@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        It’s more like the cops throw a grenade at the robber and teller, and when they kill the teller, the officers try to imply the teller’s complicity because they allowed the robbers to control the bank to begin with.

        And then when the robbers rationalize the bank teller’s death as martyrdom for their cause, should we really feel bad for the teller?

      • MxM111@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        No police in the world would say “ok, go free, and keep the hostages”. And by the way, a murderer would be better analogy than bank robber.
        Also, hostages did die in real world hostage situations too, while police was targeting those hostage takers.

    • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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      1 year ago

      Why are you acting like Hamas and Israel are the only parties in the conflict? That makes no more sense than talking about a war between Palestine and Likud.

      Pretending Hamas is the same as Palestinian is anti-Palestenian, which to any person with a moral compass is just as bad as antisemitism, the same as being hateful towards any ethnic group.

    • eestileib@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Hamas wants dead civilians. That’s how resistance/terrorism movements work (your choice of descriptor, it’s the exact same thing).

      IRA, Tamil Tigers, Viet Cong, etc. They all benefit from civilians on “their” side dying, that’s just the game they are choosing to play. Acting like you’re pwning somebody by pointing out an obvious fact won’t get you far.

      And for the record, fuck Hamas.