The European Commission chief said she was “convinced that if the competition is fair” from China, then Europe “will have thriving durable economies”. But she said the “imbalances” caused by state support for Chinese industry leading to cut-cost products threatened jobs in Europe, and that was “a matter of great concern”. “Europe will not waver from making tough decisions needed to protect its economy and security,” she said.

  • febra@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    God forbid we, the European consumers get to buy cheaper products. What’s China doing so right that they can sell stuff for cheaper? What are we doing wrong?

      • febra@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Many european companies have factories in China, Africa, other Asian countries, so I don’t see your point. We do use slave labor quite a lot actually

      • 7oo7@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        8 months ago

        We shipped all our manufacturing to a country that allows slave labor and now they’re beating us.

        hey, but you get to deflect from that like you’re role models of human rights. until you look into your history, oh wait…

        • photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 months ago

          First part: looks like that was a mistake. Decentralized manufacturing has always been the future, though.

          Second part: we overcame that, didn’t we? That’s why it’s history and not currently happening like in China.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Decentralized manufacturing has always been the future, though.

            No, you don’t understand, this is actually an incredibly efficient method of producing food for retail consumption.

            • photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              8 months ago

              Perhaps we mean different things with “decentralized”. What I meant was that it’s a bad idea to outsource all your manufacturing to the part of the world where its cheaper. Keep some steel mills, auto plants and chip foundries near where they’re consumed. Food production is actually a good example of decentralized manufacturing. I buy mostly locally grown produce, I can literally take a walk and see the wheat which will someday be the bread I eat.

              • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                8 months ago

                it’s a bad idea to outsource all your manufacturing to the part of the world where its cheaper

                It’s a bad long term logistics strategy, thanks to the tail risk that comes with shifts in geopolitical relations. But its heavily incentivized from a short term profit-maximization strategy.

                Keep some steel mills, auto plants and chip foundries near where they’re consumed.

                So, there’s some economic limit on all of these. Steel mills are voracious electricity consumers, which makes them most efficient near cheap hydroelectric or nuclear power stations. Also, steel is heavy, so you’ll want the factory near a port, for cheap shipping. Meanwhile, steel consumption is global and generally predicated on where we’re doing large construction projects. You can’t build a steel mill right next door to a city, just because its going through a construction boom.

                That said, that’s not really what has happened in the modern global economy. During the 19th and early 20th centuries, our primary method of powering steel mills was through coal consumption. And that gave us a Rust Belt that ran adjacent to the Coal Belt. For decades, the D.H. Mitchell plant in Gary, Indiana was the primary power source of Gary Works, the largest steel foundry in the nation. But the rate of pollution was enormous, ultimately leading to a shut down of the plant in 2010 and half a billion dollars earmarked to help with clean up.

                Thanks to high demands for domestic real estate and tighter environmental laws, we’ve exported an enormous amount of our steel production oversees and rendered some of our largest manufacturing facilities unprofitable. We effectively outsourced our pollution to our colonies (most notably, Gwangyang South Korea, the largest in the world and one of the major feeders to the Japanese automotive industry).

                Also, obviously, too, cheap labor. Cheap real estate. Cheaper electricity thanks to depressed domestic consumption. We’re pivoting from Chinese exports to Indian and Indonesian exports, because these are the other countries with an enormous pools of cheap labor.

                In the same vein, automotive manufacturing moved from the unionized northern midwest to the southwest and Gulf/Atlantic Coast, chasing the lower wages and weaker environmental protections common to these former plantation states.

                Chip foundries are an entirely different animal, because of the sizable investment in their construction (north of $1T for a high end modern facility). You can’t just make another Taiwan Semiconductor in your backyard, unless you have hundreds of billions of dollars to throw at the project.

                Food production is actually a good example of decentralized manufacturing

                The US is a breadbasket, so we produce enormous surpluses. A good share of the wheat you’re seeing will never end up on your plate, or in your state, or even in your country.

                If you look at the impacts of NAFTA on the Mexican agricultural industry, you’ll see what I mean. We crashed their domestic corn industry when we flooded Latin America with our cheap excess produce. And, as a result, we created an enormous demand for farm labor north of the border just as we were bankrupting local farms south of the border.

    • Mataresian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      8 months ago

      The thing is, that is the short term benefit. The long term effect could be is that we be dependent on the exporting party and they can start charging higher prices. Generally it is not in your favour to be dependent on another party.

      • febra@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Currently I am dependent on the rich guys that own all of the facilities that produce what I need. I don’t care if it’s the Chinese government or a rich fuck from over the US. Maybe we should start doing the same thing that China is doing and actually provide people with cheaper products

        • Mataresian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 months ago

          I get your frustration but you can’t solve one extreme/problem by another. That just creates different problems. And I believe you’re smart enough to realise what problems that would be. But yea, affordability is definitely a problem that needs to be solved. Getting exploited is never good. Sadly that rich people problem is present in more countries, including China. (not talking about the size of the problem, that is a point of argument of course)

    • CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Massive government subsidies that allow companies to more or less run at a loss for the most part. Its the same playbook as Wallmart and just like Wallmart its a sure bet that those prices will go up once the local competition is wiped out.

      • febra@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Well, it sounds like China knows a little more about the economy than we do then. Maybe we should do the same thing here. Consumers would be happy if they had cheaper products.

        • Pilferjinx@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          China doesn’t care as much about regulations. They’re okay with massive pollution and slave labour. Do you want to live with that massive lower quality of life to produce cheap products you still can’t properly afford because your wages have been cut? There is a tricky balance to keep China as our personal factory and not lose our ability to afford the things they make.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Massive government subsidies that allow companies to more or less run at a loss

        Where does a government that subsidies a company operating at a loss get the money to fund itself and its unprofitable company? And why is the Chinese economy continuing to grow (often faster than its western peers) if all its businesses operate at a loss?

        Its the same playbook as Wallmart

        The playbook Walmart uses is to buy cheap disposable foreign imports wholesale and then sell them to western consumers at a 1000% markup, knowing they’ll break and need to be repurchased in short order.

      • john89@lemmy.ca
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        8 months ago

        So… communism works?

        Looks like the only people this upsets are wealthy Westerners and their useful idiots.

        its a sure bet that those prices will go up once the local competition is wiped out.

        This actually never happened. Walmart is still cheaper than any regular* grocery store, especially the co-ops.

        *ALDI is cheaper because all of their products suck. Their produce sucks, their packaged goods suck, and their meats aren’t actually cheaper. I think less of anyone who recommends ALDI and regret all the effort I put into giving it a chance.

        • Riddick3001@lemmy.worldOP
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          8 months ago

          So… communism works?

          They are not Communist, it has now become an even more repressive autocratic regime, under the guise of a Communist label. If you want to know about communism read Karl Marx.

          • john89@lemmy.ca
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            8 months ago

            Right. I’m talking about this specific instance, not China as a whole.

        • hark@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          *ALDI is cheaper because all of their products suck. Their produce sucks, their packaged goods suck, and their meats aren’t actually cheaper. I think less of anyone who recommends ALDI and regret all the effort I put into giving it a chance.

          I guess this is a regional phenomenon because the aldi stores near me have all been great and cheaper.