@whou wish someone else would build an easy to set up and use chromium browser for windows that blocks telemetry and isn’t run by an asshole… something i could get friends and family to use.
Very strongly worded, but yes.
Brave have had a history of controversy since their inception. Every time something happens, the CEO went on a marketing campaign across social media and drummed up enough new users to drown it out. However the attitude of the business is clear: it would take a very small sack of money for Brave to sell out its users.
If you’re going to use a Chromium web browser, there are non-commercial open source projects that don’t have a history of shady shit. However Firefox forks are better.
Absoutely. I mostly use Firefox because I’m so familiar with it by now but the privacy is generally much better and it doesn’t have a massive monopoly on the web. I’m just a lot more comfortable with it.
When I have to, I use ungoogled-chromium on desktop and Bromite on mobile. I recommend those to anyone familiar with Chrome.
Unfortunately Bromite has been abandoned, however someone has made a fork called Cromite.
Which forks do you suggest?
Other people have given desktop examples. For Android, I use Mull, which also has a companion Android System Webview implementation (Chromium) called Mulch. These are baked into the DivestOS ROM, which itself is a fork of LineageOS.
Does it support extensions like Firefox?
Yes, full support for desktop Firefox extensions. I think it also comes with uBlock Origin by default.
Just saw it does support custom add-on collections like Firefox beta and nightly… I’m going to give it a try
Edit: it supports startpage as search engine out of the box as well!
All I can say is try DivestOS :)
My opinion: It doesn’t have full customisation (compared to eg. CRDroid) but it does at least have call recording and long press back button = kill app process, along with traffic monitors for the status bar. All regular phone calls have a banner at the top reminding you that they’re not secure (as opposed to E2E encrypted chat calls over the internet) and Location permission settings seem to be a bit more expansive than other ROMs.
Not the OP, but here are some alternatives anyway.
Firefox:
Chrome:
I use fennec from F-droid on mobile
Also Mull and Iceraven from F-Droid
Ok, but why? What’s wrong with Firefox and how do the forks address those points?
I posted the list of alternatives simply because OP asked for forks.
What’s wrong with Firefox
Me posting this list shouldn’t be an implication that I believe Firefox to be bad. I’m offering alternatives as the OP requests.
and how do the forks address those points?
Every one of the links I shared have detailed information about how their product mutates the original Firefox or Chromium browser. Do you really need me to copy-paste that information into a comment?
Mullvad , LibreWolf and Tor.
I don’t trust homophobes or cryptobros, especially not those with a history of selling users out like Brendan Eich
I don’t trust anyone who invented Javascript.
Especially when there is Firefox and Firefox-based, privacy-focused alternative with great add-blocking and privacy extensions.
Im just waiting for Firefox mobile to add back support for all add-ons.
Mull supports add-ons. Also has a companion to replace the system browser Android System Webview, called Mulch.
FireFox Beta and Nightly, and forks like Fennec and Mull from F-Droid support all add-ons.
https://www.androidpolice.com/firefox-beta-107-android-install-any-browser-add-on/
Have you tried Fennec? It’s a stable and up-to-date release of Firefox with full support for add-ons and about:config
Not all add-ons work for mobile, but many of them do. You just have to use the “save to collection” feature to add them. I’ve got sponsorblock working in mine.
I don’t know why but firefox feels sluggish compared to chromium based browsers on android
See, I’ve heard people say this, but this has not been my experience at all, and the data seem to support that it’s not slower on Android. If anything, it should be faster.
I always disable intrusive settings like “suggestions from sponsors” and “improve the Firefox experience,” so maybe that’s the reason?
Strange, I’m using Fennec so it shouldn’t be using any telemetry. But I’ll give it another shot for science
Could be a unique hardware thing as well. I have an S21 FE running the stock OS, but I’ve disabled certain system apps I find annoying, such as Samsung Internet and Modes and Routines
if you useanything alphabet like chromium, then YOU are the problem.
Firefox ftw
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This is true, and there are people who are required to use it at work due to bad and outdated policies, but I do think it’s fair to say of anyone who does know better yet stubbornly persists in using Brave or Chrome.
I have seen people reply that they don’t care if they’re supporting an untrustworthy homophobic cryptobro because “everything is bad” or something like that. Those people are part of the problem. We’re spiraling toward a situation where internet is the new cable TV, under full control of two colossal corporate entities (Google and Microsoft), and I think it’s fair to expect more from those of us who do know better, but stubbornly persist for whatever reason.
I work for a large agency of the US government. We get the “choice” between chrome and edge.
I’ve worked for a similar employer! I’m supposed to use Chrome at my current employer, and it sucks. Zoom, too.
I’m sure part of it is that I’m just used to Firefox, but I don’t know how people choose to use Chrome. All of its “features” are creepy and stalkerish.
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I agree, but I think it stems from the frustration we all feel that we’re losing our privacy and now we’re even at risk of losing the ability to choose our own services (with Google’s proposed DRM changes and the possibility of gutting certain services in Manifest v3).
It’s accurate that a very small slice of the pie are non-chromium users, and so I understand what you mean by “no one uses Firefox.” I’m not quite sure what to do to change that.
Also, I can understand why people get upset about this and might seem unhinged. For me, worst-case scenario is I simply no longer use the internet unless I’m required to for work; but for many people, the internet hosts their only comfortable spaces. For example, I’ve seen an interactive map where LGBT+ people post from where they live, and there are people living in the absolute middle of nowhere in rabidly conservative towns of less than 500. I can understand that the prospect of losing our privacy and the only safe spaces they’ve got must feel devastating.
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I totally get that, yeah. I understand.
Right, but if I take your perfectly reasonable and mature position then I can’t prove to the web how edgy and superior I am!
If you’ve found your way to the technology community on a federated lemmy instance, youre techy enough to take the blame for using chromium
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Dude, touch some grass. You’re being way too aggro at someone explaining why a person might use a particular browser
Bro, eat a snickers…
What do you mean by “on the backs of others”? Are you saying that then using chrome impacts others that don’t use chrome?
99% of US mobile views is safari
Source: 🎱
Please, be(e) nice when using Beehaw. Enjoy a three day vacation from here.
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I really don’t understand why people get so confrontational about this kind of thing. It’s a fucking web browser. I have a strong opinion about how they should be developed, but it has never been important to me to actually care what other people choose to use, especially not to the degree of lashing out at end users.
Educating people on their choices is good, but nobody should be getting this worked up over user choice.
It’s only a matter of time until Eich sells all of Brave’s users down the river.
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OK, but it’s also a pretend privacy browser that doesn’t actually protect or respect your privacy.
The browser as is right now is open source and has way better defaults for privacy than Firefox (currently it seems it is the best browser in this aspect after librewolf. see: https://privacytests.org ).
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Do you think AD Block Plus to be non privacy oriented because it shows you non invasive ads? No ads I’ve seen in the browser ever seen like they’re targeted. As for crypto, it’s anti privacy as the blockchain tracks everything you do on it… So yeah any of the crypto stuff they did isn’t that bad TBH and it is also OPT in…
Your take would be acceptable if a perfectly viable alternative like Firefox didn’t exist. Since it does, how about you STFU?
I am a Firefox user both mobile and on PC. I’m just tired of people saying don’t use this because of the person working on it.
I enjoy Pantera, the lead singer should have the shit beat outa him for this G’s he has said but does that mean I am going to stop listening to Pantera? Fuck no
The less people using Chrome (even if they are chromium based browsers) the better
🙄
“working towards something better is pointless, everything is shit anyway”
Hey, switching to a less shit shitty option, is still an improvement.
If the only way you’re willing to accept improvement, is by fixing it all at once or nothing at all, you’ll never solve anything.
I am a Firefox user and always suggest using it to people. But still the more people not using Chrome (even if they are still chromium based) the better.
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Not what I said. Here is an example I love Pantera, the lead singer should be beat for some of the shit he has said over the years, am I going to stop listening to Pantera? Fuck no
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Vivaldi seems to be one of the least bad options.
Vivaldi is proprietary, which makes security and privacy virtually impossible to guarantee
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If you’re on Mac I would suggest Arc browser
Safari might be worth a try
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Use one of the “clean” versions of Chromium (not Chrome) from Woolyss.com
If you want updates to be handled automatically, you can use ChrLauncher
EDIT: I guess you can’t use the latter on OSX.
Cromite was suggested to me and it seems to work well: https://github.com/uazo/cromite
If you need chromium, your best option is probably ungoogled-chromium which is basically just bare bones chrome with as much telemetry and tracking taken out as possible.
don’t forget the absence of easy to install addons! such a delight!
What, you don’t like to install the Web Store through a separate extension crx download, mess around in the settings, and enable dev mode? Wait til you hear what you have to do to get DRM working (Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, etc). Hint: It’s a separate zipped download of Widevine that you have to extract deep in the AppData folder, assuming you’re on Windows.
Yeah it takes a few extra steps to get extensions/chrome store stuff like that. Probably not the best option if you’re just trying to slap it on a work computer in 5 mins.
That’s where Firefox comes in!
True that’s what I use the vast majority of the time, but the OP specifically needed something chromium based.
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Ungoogled Chromium
While I agree with this, it’s kind of a pain in the ass if you use extensions. You have to roundabout install the Web Store through a crx download, tinkering in the settings and enabling dev mode, then use that extension to install other extensions. And may the cosmos grant you mercy if you need to use DRM for Spotify, Netflix, Hulu, etc, and have to download the Widevine DRM stuff separately and unzip it deep in the AppData folder.
It’s not impossible, but I guess I’m just saying that this probably isn’t going to be the answer for the everyday, average person.
OC said for occasional use, I do agree that it’s difficult to get it set up
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It should’ve been as simple as stop using any chromium-based browser, but the CEO is also super bigoted, doing ad theft, and pushing crypto scams.
Even the crypto people don’t generally like him. He tried for Bitcoin integration first and got booed away before starting an ICO - nothing about this needed another coin. Pay-to-surf is a Turing test; his idea doesn’t even work in theory.
nothing about this needed another coin.
I really don’t get this take, at all. Payment is at the root of almost all problems with the modern Internet. Ads, censorship, mega-cooperation monopolies, etc. There are few problems that can’t be traced by to payment.
Crypto provides a means to fix that by making digital transactions easy, such that small creators can host their content and earn from their own stuff, without a middle man.
Does crypto fulfill that promise? Not quite, but it’s still better than nothing and is currently the only solution in sight (until we get an official digital currency from a country). And for whatever faults it might have, it sure beats crawling up Google’s bumhole in search for more ad money.
another
Any of the existing cryptocurrencies can already handle payments. We don’t need yet another one for each use case of money.
Crypto will never be a thing. We’ll be in a Star Trek style post-economy future where the concept of money is worthless before crypto will ever be a viable alternative to fiat currency, at least for anything aside from buying drugs online from dudes with roman statue avatars who talk like anime villains.
How will we coordinate on building that Star Trek future without it being censored?
Can someone please fork brave?
Which feature do you want that isn’t already in better, Firefox-based browsers?
When visiting the govt. Website, it says you’re using unsupported browser and some feature won’t work but when I use brave, I dont get that message.
sane tab management and behavior on mobile versions along with proper syncing is apparently too huge of a hurdle to handle for the devs. these two are pretty much the only reason why i still use brave and not firefox
Not crashing my computer after using it for a few minutes would be nice.
What the hell kind of rickety rig are you running?
Do you happen to use Mac OS? I used a Macbook when I was working on my masters, and that’s the only bad experience I’ve ever had with Firefox. It didn’t seem to crash, but it ate memory like a black hole, and none of the suggestions people gave in forums ever worked for me, so I switched to Safari during that time.
Not Mac OS, but I am using a linux distro, and can confirm it’s Firefox, as I’ve reinstalled everything from scratch and only Firefox seems to have this problem.
Lol seriously? I am using firefox from past 5, -8 years and never crashed once.
I have stopped using Brave. Fuck those guys.
I just wish Firefox would update less frequently. It’s way too often.
would you rather they leave security holes open exposing your computer to bad things?
This is a common excuse for a lot of box checking nonsense and we both know it.
You know there’s another option besides not passing security holes to the users and then patching them later right?
you realize modern browsers have millions of lines and over a decade (or two!) of legacy code running that are under constant scrutiny by actors who spend all their time finding exploits in binary executables, right?
you realize your operating system also ships system updates on a regular, often daily basis, right?
How is any of that the user’s problem
“How is a security hole in the thing people use to do their banking a problem for the user?”
If you think it’s just a matter of writing a completely fresh browser every few years to remove legacy code, then I invite you to do so and prove us all wrong. I’ll be looking forward to it, along with all of the new security holes you open by using new, untested code all the time.
In the meantime, feel free to use an ESR version of whatever browser you prefer a slower update cycle while still being supported for any major security findings.
…it’s like twice a month
I use more than one computer, it’s more like 8 times a month for me.
Why don’t you run the update service? Or if you do, how does the few seconds it takes to apply the update really impact you? I never even realize it apparently updates so much as it doesn’t nag or anything.
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You could switch to the ESR branch, which gets feature updates much less frequently.
Thanks. A helpful response instead of a smarmy one. Refreshing.
Try Waterfox. It is pretty good.
Thanks.
Not a single solid reason given in this unhinged rent except a mention of that affiliate link fiasco, which even they themselves agree was a major fuckup.
All BAT and crypto stuff are completely opt-in and it barely takes a few clicks to set the browser to never let you see that side of it again. As for Brendan’s political affiliations, most users couldn’t care less. He might as well be a
furryflat-earther but if the product is good, it is good. Stop acting like you’re sure all the things you use throughout the day aren’t made by people with doubtful leanings.I personally don’t use Brave on desktop, Firefox is good enough; but it is the best option on Android currently since Bromite is almost always a Chromium version behind whatever is current.
Edit: Just learnt that I was wrong in my perception of what “furry” meant. Reading the replies objecting to that reference made me dig a bit deeper and realise that it’s just a type of fandom, and not some sex-deviant cult that pop media made me believe. Sorry for the wrong example.
The very first reason seems valid to me. No way anyone should be supporting a hateful asshole like that. Anybody going around saying homosexuality is any less valid than heterosexuality has no place in our society anymore.
Brave is the browser for the far right.
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I’m removing this comment. Your link isn’t relevant to the discussion, Prop 8 was an attempt to ban gay marriage in a state where it was currently legal.
Further attempts to debate human rights will be met with a permanent ban.
I have this weird suspicion that a person advocating to specifically ban gay marriage (and not get rid of marriage in general) might actually be homophobic
Honestly, that article is pretty lousy. It just boils down to “I oppose gay marriage because I don’t like the concept of marriage”. Just seems like veiled homophobia to specifically call out opposition to gay marriage when they could have just written “I oppose the concept of marriage, and this is why”.
mf really conflated being a homophobe to being a furry 💀
Corrected now
what a goofball…
Can we please let this meme hate die? How have you people not adjusted to the concept of putting on a costume and roleplaying, we do it every October.
Not a single solid reason given in this unhinged rent except a mention of that affiliate link fiasco, which even they themselves agree was a major fuckup.
That’s pretty dismissive of a feature that could only have been added intentionally. It’s not like there was some accidental glitch that was adding affiliate suffixes on the end of links.
What we have here is a business poking and prodding and seeing what they can get away with. You’ve said that there’s only one thing they did that’s truly out of line, while glossing over the fact that most of what they do is borderline. Their intent is clear.
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As for Brendan’s political affiliations, most users couldn’t care less. He might as well be a furry but if the product is good, it is good. Stop acting like you’re sure all the things you use throughout the day aren’t made by people with doubtful leanings.
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People do care about Eich’s beliefs, or this discussion wouldn’t even be happening.
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There’s nothing wrong with being a furry, and trying to compare it as though it’s equivalent or worse than being a shitbag bigot is bullshit.
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If you know that the people who run a company are bigots and you continue to use their products and services, you are giving your explicit approval to who they are and what they do. “if the product is good, it is good” absolutely fucking not. Goods and services don’t exist in a vacuum.
Bro, most people don’t even care about their own privacy and keep using edge/chrome in windows. Some lemmy users care about Eich’s beliefs, like you, but most people don’t.
I am not even sure what that list supposed to prove either…
I am sure CEOs of banks or oil companies are totally not bigots who absolutely despise poor’s, that’s I feel fine using their products!
Please tell me this is sarcasm
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If directly funding homophobic policies isn’t a good enough reason for you, you need to look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why that is
it is the best option on Android currently since Bromite is almost always a Chromium version behind whatever is current.
Right now Bromite is unmaintained and has been for a long time. I shudder to think how many versions it’s behind.
If you want a FOSS Chromium-based Android browser, use Mulch. It gets updates fairly quickly and serves much of the same purpose that Bromite did, while actually having a (very slightly) larger dev team.
Edit: Oops. Didn’t realize that Mulch doesn’t have a content blocker. Someone else mentioned Cromite (which does have a built-in content blocker), so that might be a good option as well.
Or Cromite, a fork of Bromite that’s kept up to date and has more features.
Huh. Didn’t know about that one. Thanks for mentioning it!
Imagine comparing furries to homophobes lol. Sit down you goofball.
Corrected, sorry for that
Not a single solid reason given
Well not to you, but that doesn’t mean much considering you think spyware is fine as long as it’s opt-in (and that being a furry is equivalent in severity to being homophobic, wtf). The fact that you think this article is bad is basically a ringing endorsement.
“Funding awful people doesn’t make me awful” Say sike right now
Stop telling me what to do
Don’t stick your fork in the light socket!
Eat your vegetables
Yes mom
Clean your room!
What if I eat someone else’s vegetables?
What if they get really sick and die because you ate their vegetables? Ever think of that?
What if I eat someone else?
I’m sure there’s a joke here about eating other people’s eggplants, but I’m too innocent to find it.
Now it makes sense why some of the Fox News-parroting, right wing people I know use Brave. I had no idea about what the author mentioned about the browser, I just know it is based on Chromium which I will not use. Thus, I am on Firefox. And for many reasons, including those the author laid out, I’m happy I chose wisely.
There is nothing wrong with Brave. It’s a great browser. I like the cryptocurrency aspect of it.
Crypto is a scam and you’re being duped.
“Crytpto” is not a scam. Bitcoin and Ethereum are the future of money.
There are a lot of shitcoins out there, but don’t let them fool you into staying poor. Fiat money is dying.
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All money is fiat money. It has an agreed upon value outside of its intrinsic worth. If you want to get away from fiat money you have to go back to barter.
That’s not true. Fiat money is money created and managed by a government. We need separation of State and Money.
from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
noun Legal tender, especially paper currency, authorized by a government but not based on or convertible into gold or silver.from Wiktionary, Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License.
noun economics Money that is given legal value or made legal tender for money debts by government fiat.from WordNet 3.0 Copyright 2006 by Princeton University. All rights reserved.
noun money that the government declares to be legal tender although it cannot be converted into standard speciSo you prefer your currency to backed by the full faith and credit of… nobody? And you think you’re not being duped. Hilarious.
It’s backed by math. There is a fixed amount of Bitcoin. We have never had the concept of “digital scarcity” before. There are thousands of computers running independently that are following a consensus algorithm. it’s an open, permisionless, trustless system that anyone on the planet can be part of.
You would rather have money controlled by corrupt governments? Hilarious.
Ah, I see, you think that because you can mint Schmecklebux or whatever and use it as a medium of exchange, you’re somehow exempt from the laws of whatever country you’re in when the trade goes down? Tell me, does your flag have a fringe on it?
digital scarcity
ipv4 addresses. Also bitcoin is the worst example here, as it’s just an asset. It’s not bearable as real money, you can’t trust its always changing value. It’s also a victim of constant market manipulation. XMR on the other hand is a relatively stable currency.
Bitcoin is also a privacy and ecological nightmare.
In general it’s also really fun that you can lose all your money without doing anything wrong.I think crypto could have its place as the cash of the internet. No one can watch your transaction, but if the other person takes your money and runs you are shit outta luck. No way to revert transactions, perfect for money laundering, but also anonymous, which can be a plus.
But all this makes it completely unsuitable in everyday use.
Also: yes, there is a fixed amount of Bitcoin. But you know what governments all over the world did when Inflation was sky high? Change the interest rates to change the amount of money that goes into the economy to make everyday items affordable again.
And for Bitcoin in particular, if everyone actually uses it as intended the artificial limit of the transaction rate would only allow you to perform one transaction every two yearsor something like that.
It’s backed by math.
No, it’s backed by the power grid. Shut off the power, and you have nothing.
Also trying to create scarcity in a realm where none actually exists shows how greedy and scammy it is.
It’s worse than any other fiat currency. There’s literally nothing behind it.
There is a fixed amount of Bitcoin.
That is part of the problem. As long as the economy grows, then Bitcoin is deflationary. This encourages people who have it to hoard it, rather than to move it around and drive the economy. It is almost perfectly designed to be used as a speculative investment rather than an actual day-to-day currency.
Having a fixed pool of money to represent your economy only makes sense if the total value of the economy will never change. This doesn’t happen in the real world. Populations grow, new technologies add value, and poverty generally goes down. This is all fairly simple math.
you should read “what is money” by mitchel innes. he shows very well that pretty much any money ever has been fiat money
Fiat money via WIkipedia:
Fiat money can be: * Any money that is not backed by a commodity. * Money declared by a person, institution or government to be legal tender,[5] meaning that it must be accepted in payment of a debt in specific circumstances.[6] * State-issued money which is neither convertible through a central bank to anything else nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.[7] * Money used because of government decree.[2] * An otherwise non-valuable object that serves as a medium of exchange[8] (also known as fiduciary money).[9]Doesn’t have to come from a government. Crypto is three of these. The article even starts with “Fiat money is a type of currency that is not backed by a commodity, such as gold or silver.” Nothing about government there either.
at this point we are just arguing over semantics.
The differences and implications are important, and it’s hard to make a convincing argument if your base premise is incorrect.
“What if Chromium had its own fake money?”
Money is a social construct that only has value because people agree it has value. Bitcoin and Ethereum are the best forms of money humans have ever invented. Once we have privacy at the base layer, fiat money is dead.
Ha. Hu ha ha. Ha. Hahaha.
Money has value because it is an efficient medium to facilitate trade. Specific forms of money have value because of what backs it and it acts as a medium for trade. And yeah I’m sure what society really values will at some point be a money that limits the ability to deal with economic crises. Or that slowly disappears, because privacy Bob didn’t believe in banks but his SSD failed, or because Crypto Karen forgot her password. Or a hacker loots an exchange.
I mean, it’s not like those are fundamental problems that could bring an economy to it’s knees right? But hey, at least the money has privacy (it won’t) and we don’t have to worry about inflation (deflation on the other hand…).
Cryptocurrency is the most efficient money we have. It doesn’t require any middle man bankers. Sure, hackers can hack and loot exchanges, but right now we have the government looting us with inflation.
The problems you mentioned are being worked on. There are ways to backup and restore your wallet that will become easy.
The global economy doesn’t need to only rely on Bitcoin, so the argument that we have to worry about deflation is just wrong.
Cryptocurrency is the most efficient money we have
You are either misinformed or brainwashed.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/09/03/climate/bitcoin-carbon-footprint-electricity.html
This is the wild west of innovation. Scammers like money, so of course they will be attracted to cyrptocurrency. They are also very attracted to fiat currency.
All of the references on that page have to do with random NFT projects and shitcoins.
You should try to separate the concept of “Crypto” from the concept of base layer blockchain protocols that actually have value.
Pwrsonally I don’t use Brave due to it being chromium, outside of that itis a good browser. If they were a firefox fork I would absolutely use them.
I love firefox. It’s my main browser for everything. When I need a chrome based browser for testing things, Brave is my go to browser.
Yepp, I started just using vanilla chromium though instead, as that offers a barebones option to guarantee I don’t need to mess around to test something works.
Brave has built in ad-blocking that is good to test against. One of our tools wasn’t able to submit new issues to jira because atlassian.net was being blocked by the browser.
you like baked in ads, crypto, falsely using people to promote your browser… oof
The browser works well. I am very much into crytpocurrency. I think Bitcoin and Ethereum are the future of money.
You don’t need to turn on ads in Brave. It blocks ads really well.
There is plenty wrong with Brave, the business.
Brave, the browser, is very useful in a practical sense. It has some nice features out of the box, and if you disable the naughty out of the box features it’s pretty decent. However, you have to trust that each update from the developer is good, and past experience raises very serious questions with this particular business.
Maybe you might be seeing some returns from the cryptocurrency. My undestanding is that users have lost far more than they’ve gained - and that’s before you actually look into the true value of what users are sacrificing in exchange for their tokens. Meanwhile, Brave are pulling a steady revenue making money from their users, milking them just so.
