For-profit tech companies like #Threads and #Flipboard are beginning to implement #ActivityPub, and that’s been causing a lot of chaos lately. Thus, I’ve found it helpful to take a step back, consider what it is about the fediverse that I value, and think about whether federation with these large platforms will bring us closer to or further from those goals.

With that in mind, I’ve come up with a few statements (in no particular order) that describe what I think is an “ideal” fediverse:

  1. No actor controls a large portion of visible activity.
  2. Users can move between instances without penalty.
  3. Creating and running an instance requires minimal effort.
  4. People on or entering the fediverse understand the variety of available options.
  5. There is no downside to using free and open-source platforms over proprietary ones.

While this ideal fediverse isn’t necessarily realistic or achievable, I’d like to see instance owners act in the interest of these principles. These definitely aren’t comprehensive and are of course my opinion, so what do you think an ideal fediverse looks like? Do you think these statements are good goals to aim for or not?


Now, to elaborate:

No actor controls a large portion of visible activity.

This is important for instances to be able to defederate from those with bad moderation, harmful values, etc. If a person or group controls a big portion of the content that people see on an instance, then that instance will lose a lot of that content should they defederate. That person or group would essentially be able to do whatever, and instances would find difficulty defederating because they’d lose so much visible activity and thus users.

If a single entity gets enough dominance over activity, they could make defederation from them out of the question for a ton of users. Furthermore, that entity could cripple the fediverse by simply leaving it, taking a bunch of users from other instances with them. This is a big concern many people have with Threads; if 90% of the activity you see on mastodon.social comes from Threads, then Meta would be able to nab a ton of mastodon.social users by leaving the fediverse, facing those users with the choice of either losing a ton of their connections & follows or jumping ship to Threads.

But you don’t even need a supermajority of content to cause that much harm. For example, take the threadiverse (Lemmy/Kbin). A large portion of visible activity is controlled by the admins of lemmy.world. Thankfully, they seem to nice people, but if they were to start (for example) being more lax with hate speech, other Lemmy/Kbin instances would either have to deal with it or lose access to a large portion of the activity pool. If any threadiverse instance were to defederate from lemmy.world — even if the lemmy.world admins started acting against the interests of the fediverse and its users — that instance would lose a dangerous number of users.

Users can move between instances without penalty.

One of the main benefits of the fediverse is that you can move to a different instance and still be able to view the same content. If the admins of your instance start making moderation decisions you disagree with or you just decide that you want to be on an instance that you yourself run, you’re able to move and still interact with the content pool. Thus, as long as the platform your destination instance uses (e.g., Firefish, Kbin, Mastodon) supports the same type of content as your old one, you should be able to move without any downsides. The more penalty there is for moving, the more people will feel trapped on an instance even if they want to leave.

This is partially a matter of robust systems for moving accounts, but it’s also a matter of having good options available. Mastodon has a ton of active, stable instances, so if you ever want to move (e.g., because your instance is or isn’t defederating from Threads), you can do so and still be able to use Mastodon. However, the only such instance on Kbin is kbin.social (not counting instances that run Mbin, a fork with different features & development). If you want to move from kbin.social to another Kbin instance, you don’t really have a lot of options. And if you’re on something that’s closed-source, you’ll be forced to move to a different platform entirely, which may not be great for the user — an important reason why free and open-source software should be prominent on the fediverse.

Obviously, this is something that might be impossible to achieve. But even if we can’t eliminate the strings attached to moving to another instance, we should try to minimize them.

People can create and run their own instances to their liking with minimal effort.

If a user wants to, they should be able to control their interactions on the fediverse through running their own instance, and doing so should require as little effort as is feasible. Many people have already set up single-person instances for the purpose of having more control over their data. If people can’t do that, then they’re forced to put their account and content under the control of other people. Of course, most people are fine with this provided that they trust their instance admins, but the option to be your own admin should be as available as possible.

This is part of why it’s so important to have prominent open-source platforms. If Mastodon weren’t open-source, then anyone who likes Mastodon but wants to control their content would be out of luck. If you like the Threads interface but don’t want to be on an instance run by Meta, you just don’t have that option.

People on or entering the fediverse understand the variety of available options.

If someone isn’t aware that they’re on the fediverse, then they can’t really benefit from the openness and customizability that it provides. A mastodon.social user who knows nothing of the fediverse won’t know that they can move to a different Mastodon instance or interact with the same content using Friendica, as they won’t know that the options exist to begin with.

Furthermore, people will have more incentive to preserve an open fediverse if they’re aware that it exists. If the fediverse is filled with people who, for example, think that Threads is all there is or didn’t come to Threads with an awareness of the fediverse, the fediverse becomes much easier to undermine.

There is no downside to using free and open-source platforms over proprietary ones.

If someone wants to join a closed-source instance run by a for-profit company, they should absolutely be able to. However, that should ideally be because they prefer an instance moderated by Meta, not because the free and open-source alternatives are relatively lacking. Open-source software is extremely important in order for users to have options and agency, so we should aim for these factors to not come with a sacrifice. Otherwise, companies will be able to draw most newcomers to their instance and attain a large share of the content on the fediverse, which is bad as discussed with Statement #1.

Going by this principle, if the owner over a closed-source fediverse platform starts trying to create exclusive functionality that would attract people their instance, they should be regarded with extreme caution. If you’re familiar with the whole “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish” thing, a company doing such would be the “Extend” phase of EEE, and that’s a situation we should avoid at all costs.

  • Ethan@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Honestly, BlueSky’s AT Protocol fixes pretty much all of these issues (save for having a single actor controlling things as for the moment it’s still in active development and not adopted by any other project).

    Even if you never intend to sign up for or use their protocol, I’d give it a read- it’s a really fascinating system design:

    https://atproto.com/guides/overview

  • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    It seems to me that the “chaos” caused by those implementations has been entirely in how people reacted to them.

  • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    Suggestions 2, 3, 4 might be doable with a lot of development effort and co-ordination amongst the FLOSS community.

    Even people without any coding experience at all can write guides and set up simple webpages to help people understand the fediverse, recommend it to their friends and encourage spreading out on the platform instead of coalescing around the biggest instances.

    Suggestions 1 and 5, while noble goals I don’t know how that would be possible at all. People tend to be incentivized to pay for things if they offer value that can’t otherwise be attained. For the former, how do we enforce a multi-billion dollar company to play by the rules of the miniscule federation we are? To many, the answer is to not entertain them in the first place.

    • CrayonMaster@midwest.social
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      1 year ago

      I mean, they’re doable, but they’re cultural goals, not technical ones.

      I’d argue that really all of these are on a spectrum between the two though.

  • originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
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    1 year ago

    every bullet point here would apply to SMTP and would negate your entire idea of EEE. but thats just me comparing a protocol to a protocol.

    except of course

    There is no downside to using free and open-source platforms over proprietary ones.

    because reality says software is hard, it just is. and cutting edge software is painful.

    i just see a ton of people knee-jerking into the wind with a ton of maybes but zero knowledge because the horse aint in yet.

    if you cant allow partial federation or full federation while keeping an eye on dependency, then you shouldnt be running an instance anyway.

  • kpw@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    I like your considerations, but there are no conclusions on how users/admins/developers should act to achieve this ideal state.

    • ThatOneKirbyMain2568@kbin.socialOP
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      1 year ago

      That’s because I’m not fully sure on how people should act in respect to this Threads situation (which is what got me thinking about all of this in the first place). In the recent past, I was all “defederate defederate defederate defederate,” but now considering that multiple large platforms (like Flipboard) will be joining in, it’s less likely that one company will control a majority of activity. Of course, you don’t need a majority for there to be a problem — just a large enough portion for other instances to have issues defederating due to the amount of content they’d lose — but a mere large portion and not a supermajority may not be reason to defederate. Of course, there are other things to consider as well, and I’ll probably make yet another wall of text with my new thoughts on how instances should handle this in the near future. For now, this thread is for me to share the ideals that I think people on the fediverse should prioritize and for others to discuss what they think on the matter.

      • kpw@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        So we should defederate because we will have issues defederating due to the amount of content we lose? Isn’t that kind of self-contradictory?

  • Quokka@quokk.au
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    1 year ago

    I think an important aspect is that it user owned. No corporations involved in any form.

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Do “we” control that, like if I’m with Lemmy.world, we can defederate if we want right? And there’s technically no way Meta can fuck with that if we make that choice, right?