ACAB means the police is upholding unjust systems and laws, isn’t that cops as individuals are bad. Of course a large percent of them are domestic abusers and racist, but that’s an entirely different issue.
Yeah that might be convincing if it was tpss(the police system sucks) but instead the braindeads use ACAB, so…
If your slogan is inaccurate you will face resistance at every turn. Not to mention that some people using ACAB actually do think that all cops are personally bad.
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Words have social meaning, sorry not sorry.
ACAB means all cops are bastards
Because they enable if not encourage or participate in the problem.
Last, some does not mean the majority. Interesting that you’d be using this sort of logic, kinda tipping your hand…
Words have social meaning but that meaning is easy to twist and corrupt if the words are new and if the meaning is unclear, both of which are true for most liberal slogans tbh, especially ACAB. You can’t rely on conservative goodwill to interpret your slogan favorably when 1. you don’t agree among yourselves what “favorably” is and 2. conservatives don’t have goodwill.
Last, some does not mean the majority.
It doesn’t have to be a majority, just a significant enough portion that people hearing the phrase will have heard multiple people using it in two different and semi-opposite ways.
Interesting that you’d be using this sort of logic, kinda tipping your hand…
Fuck off, and don’t put me in a box. If you want to know my opinions you can ask me and I will answer truthfully. If I wanted to troll people and hide my real opinions I’d do something more interesting than arguing normally.
Right, so conservatives don’t have goodwill which means they’ll twist anything regardless, self defeating argument
See point 1.
Wasn’t putting you in any box, just pointing out that generalization is bad, and that you were participating in that behavior. People will think what they want and not being informed enough of what the social implications of words mean is exactly why both sides are at odds. Get it or don’t get it.
Well I appreciate the reasonable response. I do think it’s important to reduce the ability of conservatives to twist liberal actions but you are right that a good portion will find a way to do it anyways :/
If you’re interested, and I think you may be, look into the solution to tolerance of the intolerant, cleared a lot of misgivings I had about the concept
The social contract one? Yeah it’a a very elegant way to avoid the issues for sure
You can’t rely on conservative goodwill to interpret your slogan favorably when… conservatives don’t have goodwill
Right. But that just means you shouldn’t give a shit about making the name look nice for conservatives. They’re going to oppose it anyway, so might as well be inflammatory and get the most attention.
It also helps liberals (or moderates, however few remain) who haven’t encountered the phrase before get on board more easily so that you don’t spend time fighting your own allies.
Maybe, but being inflammatory gets you in the news so that moderates hear about it in the first place, which is where you get the chance to explain the true meaning.
Man, I actually agree with this… Most cops are bad, let’s start there. This said, there’s a lot of truth in the comment above the one I’m replying to. The system is absolutely corrupt. Civil asset forfeiture alone is a clear, objective example of it.
All my homies hate civil asset forfeiture
Whichever judge decided that you could sue a pile of money to indirectly violate its owner’s rights should be hanged for treason against the public
To be fair, it’s not that old, as far as countries go
It’s also been just over 150 years since the last civil war.
Define country, because the American government is actually one of the oldest continuous governmental systems in the world. Certainly the oldest republic that isn’t a micro-state.
Now if you want argue that France, for example, is an older country than America because there’s been a fairly stable region largely called France for several centuries you can, you’d just be wrong.
Now if you want to start talking about nations that’s different, but also a much, much blurrier subject in general.
I’m using the term to mean more or less the collectively agreed upon “identity” of a state. Not merely a single contiguous government (for the same reason you just bring up, people still consider France to be France even though the government has changed fundamentally many times over the years), but I’m not using it to just mean “nation” either, since were France to be completely conquered and annexed by a foreign power, the French nation, as in the group of people, would still exist, but the country would not, at least until such time as it could be recreated, or for a different reason, that one can have a national identity split between different states, or a state involving different such groups.
Try to manipulate people in other countries much?
Pretty bold for a region that can’t last more than a generation or two before devolving into a police state so severe that it plunges the entire globe into armed conflict.
Also Europe:
“Let’s do this obviously good thing for the sake of the whole continent.”
“No, because it would help France.”
So? Where is Your punchline?
Haha sounds about right!
Is this based on actual event or is it a general joke?
A quote I heard from a Greek minister (from memory). “If Germany had a choice between doing the right thing and hurting France, they will hurt France.”
France burns down annually hahaha
Not sure about you, but I’ll take workers reminding everyone who is in charge and how democracy works over cops constantly shooting the innocent - people, dogs, whatever, and generally carrying on like thugs.
For a people that keep reminding the oligarchy who is charge they sure seem to have the same wealth gap as all the other liberal nations
They’re still a capitalist country like most, but worker rights are pretty strong there and they have much better social services and consumer regulations. I’m always blown away by how much higher quality French food is despite costing less, and I mean like from the grocery store not just nice restaurants.
We got nukes first and WW2 barely touched us. That’s about it. We started the game in the easiest mode.
It was the same with the original development of the country.
The difference is apparent when compared to Canada.
In Canada the pioneers were led or joined by the police, the newly created Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Law and order arrived either before or with the new pioneers.
In the US, it was the other way around. Pioneers went west without any officials, police or law enforcement. Pioneers dealt with everything by the force of a gun. Whoever had a gun was the one with power and controlled everything … you could be a good moral person and lead a community or you could be a gang leader, decrepit, immoral and unjust, as long as you had a gun, you could do whatever you wanted.
Yeah. The US is a huge area with a relatively low population density and abundant natural resources. It participated in both world wars, and was nearly the only country to not take any real damage from either of them.
There hasn’t been a war on US soil since the US civil war. There has barely even been any damage to a US state. In WWII they bombed Pearl Harbor before Hawaii was a state, invaded the Aleutian Islands before Alaska was a state, and one floatplane launched from a sub tried to set fire to the forests around Oregon and failed.
The countries that had been superpowers in 1900 were recovering from mass casualties and massive damage after 2 world wars.
It’s no surprise that in Europe one of the only countries not to participate in WWII was Switzerland, and they’re also rich today.
We also had an OP start point
I don’t know, what does “we” mean here? A lot of people colonized America prior to the creation of the united states of America.
French cops are perfectly normal, just don’t google “ici on noie les Algériens” and why it keeps being graffitied on a specific bridge in Paris.
“How the fuck have they lasted this long as a country?”
Applies to Belgium far more than the US.
We’re younger than the US though.
In most European countries you need a 4 year university degree in criminology to become a cop. They have the same standards for average police officers as we in North America have for Federal law enforcement. So while it’s certainly true that some European countries have shitty cops, the ones with stricter barriers to entry have slightly less shitty cops.
Here’s an interactive map although it does seem to be missing a fair bit of data for Europe. The USA has the most abysmal Police training time at just 500 hours of training between being a civilian and being a Police officer.
edit: lol whoops I never actually posted the link earlier. Here it is: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-training-requirements-by-country
between being a civilian and being a Police officer
Also, in Europe, police are considered to be a part of civilian society. Here, “civilian” means “not part of the military”. Police officers are civilians.
Civilian means varied things in the US.
The police are civilians, but they’re also not, because they’re law enforcement.Legally they’re civilians, but colloquially they’re not, because there’s a vague separation of public service workers from the public.
Firefighters are the same, because they can also legally order you to do something. You just don’t think about it as much because the fire department isn’t intrinsically fucked up.That depends, the gendarmerie in France is part of the military, but there is also regular police which isn’t. European cops aren’t perfect, but it varies a lot by division and country and overall I’d say that your typical every day police you encounter as a normal citizen is fine, they’re usually at least somewhat polite and won’t shoot you or your dog for no reason. Some of them might go on ego trips now and then with some youth or something.
Where you see more issues is with riot police which is starting to look like a RoboCop army in some countries just smashing into protesters, or some other anti-crime divisions where they act like cowboys and leads to some events where some kids get killed or something like that, but it’s much more rare than in the US.
In some countries like in the Netherlands they are next level and you basically don’t see them or when you do they’re always super nice and polite, using positive tactics and just generally doing public service work which is what all police should be.
That could be a part of the problem. I consider police to be a respected and trusted role that comes with certain privilegies, like carring an overwhellingly powerful weapon (a hand gun).
That’s very different from a civilian.
I consider police to be a respected and trusted
I hate to assume, but you must be a white man, and if you’re not you’re really fucking lucky and should read up a little more about how the police actually conduct themselves and what obligation they have to you (hint: none).
Or … they aren’t part of racist America.
Not everywhere is the white man supreme. Far from it actually.
Yeah, i’m not from USA or even America.
The point is that they are not a thing unto themselves, they are people hired by the commons to do a job. They have the same rights and responsibilities, they go in front of a civilian judge if they fuck up. Also, as a rule, non-civilians are not permitted to police civilians, at least here. Being a civilian BTW is, and should be, a higher status than not being one, not a way to say “not part of the cool in-group”.
Airline crews are also in a respected and trusted role and operate machinery that can cause the deaths of hundreds to thousands of people. They even have ranks and stuff. I’ve never heard anyone say airline crews are not civilians.
They have the same rights and responsibilities, they go in front of a civilian judge if they fuck up
Bahahahahhahahahahhahahah 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Do you live under a rock?
We don’t all live in the dystopian US.
The quality of the cop is irrelevant when their entire purpose in existing is to serve the rich owning class by oppressing everyone who gets in their way.
Stop making excuses.
In developed countries they serve the people instead of just the ruling class. Get out of your country sometime. Not everywhere is as bleak as yours.
I wonder where you think I’m from…
Either way, you’re the one who needs to expand their narrow view, not me… Here are some links I happen to have to hand, feel free to look things up for yourself in your own time (lol, as if…)
https://mises.org/power-market/police-have-no-duty-protect-you-federal-court-affirms-yet-again
Well, that’s a product of capitalism not the US. It’s more blatant in the US, but it’s how any capitalist society is organized.
It’s a structural property of capitalism, not any nations specific implementation of policing.
In Quebec it’s three years in college and another half year in police school. Pretty sure that’s the highest standard in North America and it seem we have much less trouble here too…
highest standard in north America
Uh, not saying much there old chap 😅
Hmm. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve really heard of many cases of FBI agents or similar federal agents doing shootings like ordinary cops do.
Only ones that come to mind are Waco and Ruby Ridge but those occurred decades ago.
Better education and training would really, really help.
No, they just write death threats to people like Martin Luther King, Jr.
They find mentally unstable people and use undercover agents to convince these people to commit acts of terror, often even giving them the tools to succeed… And then they swoop in to stop the attack and yell to the media “SEE WE SAVED THE DAY AND STOPPED TERRORISM!!” Nevermind that this person would have never been in this position without the FBI’s backing. It’s a lot easier than stopping real terrorism and gets them the budgets they want.
I mean COINTELPRO, the villification of black panthers, the railroading of Bruce Ivins in the anthrax attacks…
You must be living under a rock if you think the FBI is any better.
EDIT: made links inline instead of separated.
I know its funny to shit on Europe while they’re asleep but I find the gents on the bottom more relatable
Geographical awareness level = American
Congratulations 👏
Fuck this dumb inferiority-complex-having bullshit
Oof you think the US is superior.
The U.S. was created mainly by Europeans so… you made the thing
America has grown into something completely different from what it was when the British got kicked out.
Time evolves things, funny that
It was created by Europeans who were booted out of Europe. We didn’t want them here, so you have US now.
Europe != European Union
Yeah, even Russia booted out plenty of peasants into US.
Let’s not forget brexit. Americans aren’t alone in their dumbassarry
Or the recent wins of fascist parties in Europe.
I fear the outcome of the three “state” elections in Eastern Germany later this year.
The fascist parties that want to stop immigrants on the borders? Remind me who was the previous president in US and who’s controlling the house now…
Initial comment about dumbassery not in the USA.
Reply back about additional dumbassery not in America.
You: bUt WhAt AbOuT aMeRiCa?
I’m just saying that the “fascist” parties in Europe are no more “fascist” than American right wing parties. People support right-wing parties for different reasons. Calling it dumbassery is weird.
Why so sensitive?
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Stopping immigrants at the border would actually be a horrendous policy and have devastating economic effects. Literally advocating for a terrible US policy that could be seen as inhumane and unethical.
Who’s advocating for it?
“I’m not saying we actually do it it’s the implication that we will do it”
Who’s saying that? Who’s we? I think you’re confusing mentioning something with endorsing it.
Literally facist? I know about a few right wing ones, but none of them seem actually facist
Musolini’s grand daughter sends her regards:
I stand corrected! Didnt know they are self-proclaimed fashists… Thats a bold marketing campaign and terrifing that she got the seats she did.
Although the policies she supports are not really Musollini-like.
Giorgia Meloni is Italy’s current prime minister and also happens to be a proud founding member of the Neo-Facist party, and is the granddaughter of Benito Mussolini.
I don’t like this spread of hate Europe vs US. I think both benefit from each other and non constructive comments about it ar just Chinese/Russian propaganda to break social relations between the two.
Both US and Europe have their caveats, but we are stronger together and that’s the way.
Well and adding to that you are biased af so your opinion is basically irrelevant, all your posts are anti-US. Which you call “America”, which already shows what levels you are on.
