Can’t have an ancient story without an evil woman you can blame everything on.
Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden
Based.
All Hail Lilith, The sacred mother of Feminism
Tone
satire
She became the first demon. The first example of the Bible literally demonizing women.
Sort of but not really. Lilith isn’t in the biblical version of Adam and Eve. There might be one mention of Lilith in and unrelated story in Isaiah, or it might be an old Hebrew word for screech owl.
The connection to Adam comes from folktales and fanfics written 1,000 years later. In terms of biblical tradition, she’s closer to Steve than Adam.
The Bible does a fine job of demonizing women, starting with Eve. But Christians don’t need a scriptural reason to demonize something they can’t control.
1000 years after what? Adam?
Good point, I meant 1000 years after the ecumenical councils established what books would be included in the Bible.
But you’re right, Genesis and Isaiah are old testament, much older than the Bible.
We need the Book of Rejects. All the books and stories that were considered but not included
deleted by creator
That’s the reason my wife and I named our daughter Lilith.
She’s not taking anyone’s shit.
Couldn’t God just create more humans after the first three? Is it certain that he creates 3 and then explicitly stops?
Eve had two sons. Cain found a wife “somewhere”. Cain was also marked so no one would kill him, but the three other people known to exist were his parents and dead brother.
Cain found a wife in the Land of Nod. It’s never explained where those people came from.
Genesis 5:4. Eve had three named sons (Cain, Abel and Seth), but also other sons and daughters. That would be where Cain found his wife.
But he was cursed and went East, presumably to another tribe? Need to read Genisis again.
LOL, the two creation myths confused me as well. That’s another interesting tale to take apart.
He apparently did. Cain was sent east of Eden to the Land of Nod where he found a wife.
Fucking your half-sibling is still incest.
Yes, but Cain and/or Abel could have sex with Lilith and that offspring would not be the result of inbreeding.
Also, Eve could have sex with the offspring of Adam and Lilith and that would not be inbreeding.
After that everything else is unless there are more people.
If you’re grasping at cousins as being the sole separator you know you have a problem. But also there’s a lot of conflicting information, such as Cain settling in the city of Nod east of Eden which suggests I guess that there were people outside of Eden already. Don’t take anything too literally, and jokes are jokes.
And God got mad at Lilith for not being obedient and banished her so perhaps there were a series of Liliths. I think Eve was taken from the rib because that was supposed to make her less independently minded than creating her from the dust like Lilith.
Actually, the rib part is a bit of a mistranslation: https://youtu.be/FN4pVp6lNJ0
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So many comments in that video from people saying " i speak Hebrew. Tsela means rib"
This is not a good video to support your claim that its a mistranslation
Also Adam lived quite a long life. Like several human lifetimes
Then there is this fun titbit.
Adam withdrew from Eve for 130 years after their expulsion from Eden, and in this time both he and Eve had sex with demons, until at length they reunited and Eve gave birth to Seth
What scripture is that?
It might be a creative interpretation of Genesis 5:3, which I just read as Seth being born when Adam was 130 years old.
Perhaps if they didn’t age in Eden, the concept of “living X years” wouldn’t apply, so “when Adam had lived 130 years” could be interpreted to mean after they’d been booted out. But they hadn’t had Cain and Abel before the Fall, so I don’t really see how that interpretation could work, unless it’s being merged with other narratives.
I mean, in the KJV at least there’s adam and eve, then cain and abel. then just cain, and then the book just says “Cain went to the land of Nod, east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife.” So there were definitely other people around and canonically we’re not inbred, it’s just that we all have a common inheritance from Cain, and therefore Eve, and therefore we all inherited original sin.
It makes a lot more sense when you remember that YHWH was originally a bronze age thunder and warrior god who was not the one and only god like it says in christian canon. He was a god amongst many gods, and only ever asserted himself as the one and only god of the tribes of Judea (who were, at the time, polytheistic). It’s the difference between your girlfriend saying you’re not allowed to date anyone else and your girlfriend saying she’s literally the only girl that has ever existed and will ever exist. It’s not until after the Jews lost their war with the Babylonians and Solomon’s temple was destroyed that we start seeing YHWH spoken of as the creator and the only God. Early versions of the creation story even have YHWH using the first person plural when making declarations, implying that the audience was other gods which would have been easily accepted at the time in which the stories emerged but are absolute anathema to Christians and Jews today. From memory, after Adam and Eve eat the apple YHWH says something like “They have eaten of the tree of knowledge, and now know of good and evil. If they eat from the tree of life they will become like us.”
Two things about that (overanalyzing your shower thought):
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Geneticists have what they call the “50/500 rule,” which basically means that you need at least 50 people to avoid inbreeding, and at least 500 to avoid genetic drift. So while three people are 50% better than two, it’s not going to come close to avoiding inbreeding.
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If you read up on Lilith, including your Wikipedia link, you’ll see her name only comes up once in the Bible, and it’s not as Adam’s wife. All the stuff about her comes from other things, including Babylonian and Mesopotamian writings, and lots of folklore from the middle ages. And at that, she’s sometimes Adam’s first wife, with different explanations about what happened to her that really in her not coming back to the garden, or she’s a demon. So there’s not much likelihood that she’s contributing to the gene pool.
- Wasn’t Eve made from Adam’s rib and thus shares his DNA?
Idk I thought it was an Evangelion thing
Yeah, good point.
would their kids be clones?
Depends on the chromosomes, if adam had two identical ones for each the kids would be clones barring mutations.
The chances are around 260k to 1. Factoring Eve’s lack of a second sex chromosome, (unless she has swyer syndrome) the equation would be 1/((22²+1)(23²))≈0.00039%
Seeing how we’re talking about religion and first man, I don’t think we’re limited by probability here.
BTW so there are 30k people with identical chromosomes??
As you mentioned it depends on chromosomal differences, I just provided the probability of it actually happening.
And, yes. Barring any mutations or trait selectivity, if we all came from the same individual, there would be about 30k identical people of the 8.1b population.
No, the products of incest.
Hemophilia and all that would be more likely, but no cool identical stuff going on
What is hemophilia?
A blood disease where your blood doesn’t clot basically.
Removed by mod
It’s a disease where you don’t stop bleeding when you bleed. The name comes from Latin words for blood and love, like, your body just loves bleeding
Lol, I read this as “would their kids be bones?”
Hmmm, no, because which of your genes you pass down is still a bit random.
That good ‘ol XX rib mmm
That one version. There actually two different versions of Adam and Eve.
What are the two versions?
One was they both created at same time and second version she created from one of his ribs.
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The only counterpoint i can see is that god is (honestly, at best WAS) infallible.
So god made 2 perfect humans who cannot inbreed as there are no defective genes.
At some point down the line, mutations came in and introduced possible genes that could combine/dominate to produce inbreeding.If we are accepting the premise of 2 original humans, why not 2 perfect original humans.
If God made eve from adams rib, why not have them be genetically perfect.
But Im sure there is some science i am missing where a huge genome analysis has shown that “perfect” genes have never or could not ever exist.And, tbh, this might as well be all science fiction based on a bunch of made up stories.
If I remember my hermeneutics, the canon is that essentially, God had “blessed” early descendants of Adam and Eve, allowing their children to thrive.
It wasn’t until after the flood I believe that incest becomes more of a theme in the Bible, implying that they shouldn’t have children.
But it’s been years since I gave this any serious study so I may be remembering incorrectly.
It all makes more sense when you consider these stories in their historical social context. They’re a compiled bundle of stories from various religious traditions that were kind of grafted together to form one monotheistic state religion to help unify the country. So you find stories from both north and south Judah for example, the two creation myths in Genesis. And you see the monotheistic god referred to by more than one moniker because they were originally different gods.
Awesome, I was showing up for the demon angle.
Good response!
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Which might be relevant if those were real people. You might as well worry about the genetic makeup of Pokemon
Are you saying pokemon are not real ?
Not at all! . Pikachu assures me that he exists.
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Thing is, Lilith didn’t pop up in texts apart from post-Jesus, such as talmudic texts. (although a Lilith was mentioned in Isaiah, it could have been a demon of some sort) so she’d only really be regarded by modern day Judaism, not by Christians.
I don’t. There are far more interesting fictional character to talk about.
Sounds like a shitty retcon from an series that jumped the shark
Literally what the Talmud is after Jesus showed up who basically perfectly matched their messiah, but they rejected Him because he didn’t come with an army to bring them greatness lmao
I also hear she’s a super sexy top.
I don’t think creationism is particularly bothered by genetics.
Apparently telomeres used to be so long they wrapped around your ankles and you lived to be 600.
