Lemmy: “that is a fair point”
Reddit: “you fucking moron”
I’m wondering if it’s the lurkers. Based on personal experience: I enjoyed Reddit from the sidelines for years–never made an account. Switch to Lemmy and few users means no conversation, so I figured I’d jump in. But it turns out I’m a pretty boring, literal, mild-mannered commenter. Nice, but no zing. I’m still kind of waiting for the banter.
I feel this. It felt like anything I ever had to comment had been said a dozen times by the time I stumbled into a thread, so I rarely felt any need or desire to post on Reddit. Here, I almost feel obligated to, just to keep the threads going. Part of me is excited to see the activity keep picking up here, but part of me is enjoying actually feeling like my boring-ass comments are worth posting, and also knowing said lame comments aren’t going to get heaped with random snark. Feels like the medium size forums I used to frequent back in the 00s and early 10s.
You’re not allowed to be mild mannered you idiot. Them’s the rules. Now engage me in ill intentioned banter. We will meet at dawn.
no zing doesn’t get the upvotes though!
And that’s exactly what i want. So over the recycled, rehashed, reposted, or whatever that has become of almost every subreddit.
can we go back to sharing information and solutions and it being at least kind of fun
A lot of the comments/ jokes were just recycled forced humour karma whoring, because people knew they’d get top content and a quadrillion upvotes for writing the same old shit over and over again
This.
(I’m sorry)
Good lord I can’t imagine having had browsed reddit without an account. The default subs were always so awful/toxic. It was nice having a curated list of hobby subs and cat pics and such
That’s how my husband did it, but he misses so much I don’t know if it’s culture but awareness? Eavesdropping? People watching? It was a lot of scrolling, but also a lot of things I wouldn’t have heard of any other way
platform bias is real, folks. i’ve had lots of the lemmy F’s since i’ve been here.
That is a fair point.
You fucking moron!
I find your words of the utmost distaste. Does your mothers tongue slosh around as vacuously as your own?
These days yeah, sadly :(
I made the mistake of poking my head into /c/communism the other day. If you have a constructive opinion about something, speak up and join the chat over there! You will soon learn that you are a fascist baby killer as well, regardless of who you actually are.
It was a breath of fresh air, lemmie tell ya.
Yep, that was one of the places. Well not /c/communism directly, more like /c/latestagecapitalism showed up on my feed, which is essentially the same thing. I responded to a post without looking at the community, saying (respectfully) that I thought a 70% tax is ridiculous for any demographic or socioeconomic status and I wondered how and why innovation happens in that kind of tax system, and I learned how many ways my family could die at their hands and how I’m the reason death and disease happen in the world. The mods removed the threats but I removed my comment to stop them from returning. I didn’t know it was the communism part 2 /c/.
What’s worse is THEIR threats were being upvoted by the community and my respectful original comment and replies were being downvoted like crazy. It wasn’t just the commenters - the voters were complicit. I had ZERO upvotes other than my own. There isn’t a decent human over there if you’re not a communist. They want to kill you. They told me, in lots of ways.
To be fair, the top tax rate during the most productive and innovative time in American history was 91%.
THAT is what allowed innovation to actually happen - because that excess wealth was actually being used to help eliminate poverty and bring the brilliant minds that had been hamstrung by poverty into their true potential.
It seems that you have been brainwashed by the far-right “libertarians” who want nothing more than to rule their company towns with iron fists.
Top tax rate !== The tax rate actually paid
At least it was there on paper.
I had no idea about this actually. What are some good books or sources to read up on this? That’s fascinating
Google
Here’s a fair-minded article about it from Slate: https://slate.com/business/2017/08/the-history-of-tax-rates-for-the-rich.html
Innovation would happen in that system the same way it always has.
That is a fair point!
F
Well look, here’s a Lemmy F right here! F!
Oh god, I was blind to them. The fuckers are every where.
Ack! another one.
Trust me the extreme Redditors are here now too.
They are flocking to all alternatives, kind of funny Reddit is exactly molded for them and still they want to come to other alternatives.
Those kind of extreme personalities often thrive on shouting people down though, which you can’t do in an echo chamber filled with only shouty people, so they follow the ones they consider to be sheep
that is a fair point
Dwight, you ignorant slut!
“Extreme” redditors lmao
When the X-Games were new, drinking Mountain Dew was considered EXTREME, ok?
Yeah I’m picturing someone dropping in on a 20ft vert ramp whilst they’re browsing reddit on a laptop or something.
I think we should define what we mean by extreme. What’s extreme to some may just be niche or even mainstream to others.
I assume they mean the loud, angry assholes.
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I am currently in the middle of a lengthy political argument with someone on c/politics, and we fundamentally disagree on things, but both of us are being cordial about it and I appreciate that.
I just came from politics and basically it has devolved into name calling and piss poor hypocrisy, salted with thinly veiled death threats. Feels like home
Reddit just became blocking, banning and censorship. I don’t care if somebody disagrees with me, the muting of dissent or debate or discourse or whatever was really sinister to me. People have different opinions, we shouldn’t be so quick to deny them freedom of speech.
The uproar in c/politics is about the mods(disclosure including me) are opposed to censorship
Please do be!
It’s how old-Reddit used to be. People didn’t over-use the downvote button to disagree. They went to the effort of commenting back to give counterpoints. Redditors became lazy and instead moved to posting unfunny puns and getting trigger happy with votes.
With it discussion died or it became an echo-chamber.
Even in subs where my politics aligned it became dull-as-ditchwater discussing anything because you’d just get people more extreme in an ideology considering themselves ‘right’ because they had more upvotes.
I can’t quite figure out the purpose of the votes here and I think I just prefer to comment instead of giving an up/down.
I think the up/down thing also promotes shorter comments, at least it did for me, since I know it can be hard to totally agree with someone who is making several points so I tried to keep it short and to the point. Which is dumb, because difficult topics are complex and deserve more words thrown at them not less.
Maybe the utility of the votes for me is when I don’t know what I want to say in a reply, but I want to express something. Then I vote.
Yeah I managed to find that Reddit dude when arguing with someone. Either that or I was the Reddit dude … Damn …
I got a bit heated there about something yesterday because I had irl stresses going on, and when I calmed down I went and edited my comment to make nicer and apologize for rudeness.
To my surprise, the comment is clearly still upvoted, and the guy I was talking with told me not to sweat it. A few times now I’ve posted a controversial opinion and observed it, and always, it’s at mildly upvoted.
Honestly this makes me wonder how much of the downvotes were from bots or paid shills.
that is a fair point
you fucking moron
This got a genuine laugh out of me, good one guys!
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That hasn’t been my experience.
It’s still a very mixed reaction if you say something contrary to the dominant opinion.
And still just as likely to get strawmanned if you disagree with an aspect, but still overall agree with the conclusion.
i love how this is getting downvoted lol
the irony
It’s not as of right now, but I wouldn’t say downvotes are the issue. The reality is that downvote = disagree no matter what rule you create that says it doesn’t.
What I’m talking about are the insults, mischaracterizations, and general non productive discussion on comments that others don’t agree with.
It was at a 60% upvote ratio when I commented.
That happens at times on the internet. I have to agree with the general impression though: I have only been here quite shortly, but the feel seems closer to “the reddit of olden days” for the general tone and feeling. Mostly a good thing.
I am absolutely trying my best to be friendly, tolerant and open minded here on Lemmy to set the tone for a growing culture here
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Dwight you ignorant slut
I think a community that welcomes bigots is unwelcoming to everyone else, and that tolerance is not a virtue that should be applied to all universally, but rather a quality that should be shared only with those that practice it themselves.
Bigotry should not be tolerated.
Then, with respect, you miss the point. It is possible that transgenderism is a net danger to society. It also might not be. It might be that there’s some space between wholesale admiration and reluctant tolerance that’s more appropriate for the population at large. Maybe not.
Point is, if no one is talking about it, then this stuff never gets hashed out and you get fracturing, underground movements, resentment, distrust, and radicalization.
Your post could be, not trying to strawman, like saying you only talk to people that agree with you. You should talk to people you perceive to be bigots, misogynists, racists, and so on because they’re the only ones unconvinced.
Presumably, you aren’t going to “catch it” from them unless they change your mind or your convictions weren’t that solid in the first place.
It is possible that transgenderism is a net danger to society.
It’s certain that bigotry is a danger to society. Trans people are no threat to society at all.
You should talk to people you perceive to be bigots, misogynists, racists, and so on because they’re the only ones unconvinced.
That doesn’t mean that everywhere has to platform them. If I want to talk to bigots, I can go to reddit, facebook, twitter, threads, 4chan, etc. Hell, even lemmy has exploding-heads. There’s no shortage of opportunities to talk to bigots. That doesn’t mean everywhere has to welcome them.
This is why politics can’t not be a cesspit.
I think the joke, if it was one, was that you can’t say “transgenderism is a danger to society,” much of anywhere - Not on most of Reddit certainly, at least that’s my impression, not usually going around saying that kind of thing.
And I agree that trans people aren’t a threat, in and of themselves. It’s everyone that’s using them as a rainbow political cudgel to whip up a moral panic that’s playing with fire.
I think the joke, if it was one, was that you can’t say “transgenderism is a danger to society,” much of anywhere
I’ve seen that and worse on reddit, twitter and facebook. And definitely on 4chan and exploding-heads. Without having to look very hard.
It’s everyone that’s using them as a rainbow political cudgel to whip up a moral panic that’s playing with fire.
Conservatives have been screaming that trans people are groomers and using that as justification for introducing bathroom bills, banning books about gay and trans people, calling bomb threats in to hospitals and retailers, and openly calling for eradicating trans people. That’s what a moral panic looks like.
Exactly what would you say constitutes a moral panic that’s happening in the opposite direction?
When you make 60% of your headlines and magazine articles about the latest, brave, beautiful drag queen in (I believe) an effort to monetize resent-viewing on one side and hate-viewing on the other, you make a miniscule “community” famous. The famous have always been equal parts adored and hated, even killed sometimes.
I don’t think they asked to be the center of attention, but the other fights were so close to won that they weren’t driving enough engagement anymore, so further down the alphabet we go. Gay marriage was the last flash in the pan and now most Republicans support it. They didn’t lose. They weren’t forced. They came around. It took a while, but they did.
Which leads me to the moral panic of the other direction and that’s anything to do with religion, men’s issues, systemic racism… All blown to epic, apocalyptic proportions. The Proud Boys don’t run Hollywood or Disney or hospitals or social media platforms. They’re a handful of rednecks… In fact they’re not anything anymore, would be my guess.
The progressive, activist Left appears (to me) to be moral panic personified. Just another “join or die,” authoritarian ideology. Once upon a time, being gay might get you fired. Being a woman might prevent that promotion. Big business used to be afraid of the wrath of the Christian Right, but it’s swung in the other direction now and the progressive Left wields that power no more gracefully than the Bible-clutching WASPs did before them.
I avoid the debate because I don’t feel informed enough to have a valid opinion.
However, it does concern me that in all the tussle over trans rights there are children in the middle being used as political footballs and many will be comitting suicide and hurting themselves because of what adults are saying in the halls of power across the world and in the newspapers.
I also feel some empathy because of a recent guidance change in the UK that is very similar to the Section 28 Law of the 90s that made my life as a gay teen very, very miserable.
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Easy, destructive state vector upload. Now we need to figure out the download and body creation part
You twat…
Jk don’t shoot me
I don’t think he could hear you with that bell end in your mouth, mate…
I’ll bollocks you mate
I don’t 100% agree with this posts point. If you said the Reddit comment in many of the subs you’d have the comment deleted for personal attacks. However, I do agree partially with the Lemmy one.
I’m finding myself more willing to engage with differing views while robustly defending my own views and I’ll pepper my arguments with some swearing when appropriate.
It’s a closer representation of my actual self. I’m a sweary, Northern Englishman irl but I’m fair and give peope a chance and will listen. So that’s how I behave here now.
On Reddit I talked more like a polite AI bot with no opinion on anything lest I receive a suspension or get my comment deleted by an overzealous AutoModerator bot for “personal attack”.
I wish that type of in-person language use was more acceptable throughout the US… I’m from Jersey and while I can speak freely in that region and be received normally, everyone here in the Midwest is afraid of me and thinks I’m angry when I speak freely…
I’ve encountered some rude people on Lemmy, but also a lot of people who love genuine discussion, helping others and want the best for the platform and communities.
There are, statistically, still idiots here too.
What if I’m just a sarcastic idiot?
Stochastically, that counts too
Stochastically
Damn, that was a good word.
Strategically placed, too
I can be rude, but also love genuine discussion. I just don’t believe in limiting cuss words on a public anonymous forum like this.
Nobody should give a fuck about shit and fuck when racism and bigotry are more impactful.
Totally, I was meaning more impolite, hostile or confrontational etc than saying fuck!
I personally don’t really care what people decide to type at me on the internet. My issue and why I actually never moved past being a lurker on Reddit is when your social standing (IE: karma) is also tied to whims of the moment or people not understanding that disagreeing with someone doesn’t make their comments bad necessarily.
Idk, I think it’s interesting to see the general public ‘grading’ opinions and information.
It definitely plays a huge role in the echo-chamber effect, but it’s not like lemmy is diverting from that utility.
I think I’d be more okay with it if it was somehow decoupled from the social standing aspect and if people were willing to vote in good faith (IE: not due to bias or whims).
Everyone in this thread are fucking morons.
You make a fair point.
Moron, reporting for duty!
That’s a fair point. But I’m not. :)
It’s just “manager”
I’m not, I’m just here to promote “Barbie”.
Esteemed Academy Award nominated character actress Margot Robbie! (Sometimes I get mistaken for you.) Is it true each meal you got on the set of Barbie was served in 600 tiny Barbie-sized toy plates?
That’s esteemed Academy Award and Golden Globe nominated character actress Margot Robbie to you!
Anyways, yes, the studio had to custom build hundreds of tiny fully functional dishwasher specifically for this, but I feel that only this level of method acting will finally let me win that Oscar that I rightfully deserve. (Stupid Frances McDormand)
Can we just get back to
Rampartbeans please?Glad our country didn’t ban your film
That sure was a doozy.
You called
you fucking moron /s
I mean you’re not wrong
Literally just re-uninstalled Reddit because some neanderthal (probably an insult to neanderthals) couldn’t even argue properly without putting words in my mouth I never said or implied
Some will make their way here, there are alot of tankies on lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml who somehow love Russia and China
I’m neither American, European, Russian, nor Chinese, and have no clear vested interest in any if them. Seeing how Americans view China as the “big evil” from the outside is just mind-boggling. Most of the bad stuff you think China did, they didn’t. Some of the terrible stuff they did, the US did as well. They do have a bad side that the US doesn’t have, but the US does some things worse than China.
Now its easy for the naive to just reply “whataboutism” to my comment and move on. But what I’m trying to say is that the world isn’t black and white. The US isn’t the “good guys”, no one is. Take a look at some communities on Lemmygrad. You might change some of your views.
Where did I say anything like that?
You’re putting words into that person’s mouth. He said there are a lot of people on these communities who unfailingly defend totalitarian and repressive actions taken by China or Russia. Many trying to discredit people who express opposing views (like you tried to do) or denying that they did those things or how not bad those things might be (also like you tried to do).
US is nowhere in here. There’s no one here right now defending US, saying republicans are awesome or that Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam were morally right or that CIA/NSA works for the best interests of people. You’ll find if you open your mind a little that there are a lot of people critical of how things run in the US, even people who live there.
Disclaimer: I’m not from the US.
Wumao detected
We can speak the same of extreme American leftist.
What? I know alot of far left people and they don’t like Russia or China at all
I meant you can already find echochambers from American far-leftist people on Lemmy.
I’m not surprised, you can likely find both
Oh, believe me, that happens here, too, and it happens in the exact same places it happened most on Reddit (communities dedicated to politics and specific pieces of software).
For instance, the community surrounding ReVanced here seems to be just as toxic as it was on Reddit.
I mean, it is the same people after all
Yeah, that culture is coming from the top, nothing much to do about that one sadly
So far my experience on Lemmy.world is more hostile than I was expecting. Very quick to downvote and troll here. Hoping I’ve only just had the misfortune of finding a lot of bad eggs quickly???
Depends on your own attitude too. If you are nice, you get treated nice. That’s my experience anyway. Maybe not in some communities like politics, I don’t follow those…
Feel free to creep on my comments, I feel like I’m pretty amicable 🥺
Maybe you just had bad luck. I’m loving it so far. Hope you meet nicer people. :)
🍻
What community are you subscribed to?
Generally, my experience was welcoming with long posts and orderly discussion.
Games is what I seem to be getting all the downvotes in. And some silly comment replies in an Apple thread for being a non Apple fan 😅
Hmm, I posted in Games and I haven’t have problems so far knocks on wood.
Well if your interest aligns with some of the communities I moderate, feel free to join in. I have a game related one that’s relatively new but mostly positive.
Feel free to look around my profile if you’re feeling bored.
Oh and don’t take this the wrong way, but the apple thing was maybe to be expected
Yes I will repeat the downvoted comment again to my own detriment here: Beware the Mac simps. They are a different breed for sure …
And thanks! I’ll definitely check out your stuff :)
Lol as an all-in apple guy (with iphone, ipad, mac, and a die hard airdrop fan), I’m mostly amused. But not at all offended. Win11 is a disaster. So I’m perfectly happy simping for Mac. XD
I use windows, Linux, and mac, and depending on who I’m talking to, I make sure to tell them that they should get one of the other operating systems because they’re better
Imo I’d say lemmy.world is most Reddit-like of all the Lemmy servers. Though there are always a handful to deal with on any server. Report to admins if you witness toxic, aggressive kind of behaviour.
If you are willing to keep your mind open a bit and listen as much as speak, beehaw.org might be your pace.
From the rules beehaw seems much more willing to censor unfortunately
Lemmy.world got big fast. Almost everything I see from Lemmy.world isn’t particularly good because of this. It seems to have a lot of low effort content and more hostility. It’s the instance that the laziest group of migrants joined, and it shows. A lot of people didn’t look past the instance with the highest user count. No offense to anyone who joined it, this might not be you just some of the people there are this.
Is there a better ‘lemmy’ instance you’d recommend?
If you’re ok with occasional finnish on the local page, try my instancez sopuli.xyz
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Yes, and honestly, it doesn’t really matter what instance you have your main account on since communities can be accessed through any instance (mostly).
Not OP but yes. I use sopuli too its great!
I’m on Lemmy.zip and it seems like a good place for people interested in technology and gaming. I mostly browse all, but local there is fairly good. Also, keep in mind you can block communities if you aren’t interested in them. That’s helped a lot to not get the very bad meme spam, for example. Ideally though, choose one that shares interests with you already, and preferably is local.
Aren’t a ton of Lemmy users from Reddit? That being said, I’ve had more positive interactions here than on Reddit, but I haven’t been on Lemmy that long.
To be honest i think it is just number and bell curve. A smaller user base will have less extreme, and strangely more opinions as no critical mass for a general trend to be form. Just my guess and source is trust me bro.
source is trust me bro
Verified. Source: we got this
More and more shills (and people polarized by shills) will work their way in. Personally I believe we’re in a honeymoon phase.
The subset of users that switched to Lemmy is smart enough to get over the “select an instance”-hurdle and fine with being on a smaller website with less content. This results in a different kind of interaction. Poeple here seem to still remember that there are actually living people behind those usernames. If Lemmy keeps growing there will be more chances to have the proper “go fuck yourself”-kind of interaction we are used to.
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Might be the absence of boomers then.
Yep. Not understanding kept me from joining Mastodon before.
I joined lemmy to tell someone to stick something in their butt, so I think you are being somewhat optimistic.
The best reason to join a website I read today.
I’ve already had a couple xd
Since Lemmy isn’t for profit I think that’ll delay features that cater to the lowest common denominator, thus extending our current period of quality discussions.
One can dream.
That’s quite a fair point.
I think the reason behind that is that it’s a new place and people are shy in new environments. Not only they behave more cautious but they lurk more (which leads to more lurking by others).
Did you get that you fucking moron?
Yes, I’m a bit of a moron, but I still want to be fair. In every single community I read the same comment on and on again. It goes something like this:
People in name_of_community are x.
With its obvious variation
name_of_community is y.
That always sounds to me both strange and nonsensical. Every large set of beings is, obviously, large. We’re always sampling it from a very biased perspective. You may be unlucky in your interactions; or perhaps you’re more tactful; or you’ve connected in a very bad day; etc., etc., etc… So saying that name_of_community is y is just a Quixotian attack on a windmill.
If that gets you high, elated, if it makes you feel better about yourself because you’re not like them, please go ahead and keep enjoying yourself. But also remember you’re riding an beaten old horse, wearing a rusty armor, and talking nonsense.
Those giants won’t slay themselves.
“Charge, Rocinante!”
Are you fucking sorry??
No, this is Patrick.
Lurk moar
TBH I’ve seen (and engaged in) plenty of the latter on Lemmy too. The only place where I’ve seen such behavior actually banned was themotte
I’m sorry but I have to ask or it’ll bother me for the rest of my life: is it “the motte” (the moth in German), or “them otte”, like otter missing an r?
The obvious answer here is of course: yes
I thought it tasted purple.
“The motte” as in “motte-and-bailey”
