Considering that Biden’s main competitor is an actual neonazi and the USA have an undemocratic election system that disadvantages all but two parties, there’s pretty much no choice but the senile grandpa who’s not a neonazi.
yeah like people keep saying that there is need for someone better than biden, but at the moment he’s the only option thst is valid. it’s about damage control not about making everything utopia.
they complain that biden is not good enough, while completely ignoring that trump is literal neonazi. how in the fuck it is even question wheter you should vote for trump or biden because the fact is that either of them is going to the office. not some third candinate who would be actually good
As far as I can tell, his administration isn’t so bad overall (granted, compared to children in cages this is a low bar to cross). It’s not like he does every single job personally.
indeed
Can we elect Bernie before it’s too late please?
How dare you
/s
I’ll vote for biden unless he drops out and a more progressive candidate presents itself, in which case I won’t vote biden.
I’m normally critical of Biden but this is one of the few times I’ll say it. Biden staying in the race is the best thing he can do.
It doesn’t matter when he drops out at this point, the time to do that was 8 months ago. If he drops out now and there’s an open convention, democrats lose in November. If he drops out after the convention, and the DNC chooses a different candidate to replace him, Democrats lose in November.
The last time anything similar happened, there were riots outside the DNC in Chicago and Hubert Humphrey safely handed the office to Richard Nixon.
Fun fact, Hilary Clinton attended the protests.
Still voting Biden, but this feels an awful lot like many past elections where people are holding their nose and voting for a candidate they don’t necessarily like just because they don’t like the other candidate. Those elections never seem to turn out good.
That’s exactly what this is.
Give me a viable other option, please! Biden is soggy, cold oatmeal from 4 days ago that’s probably still fine. Trump is medical waste mixed with gasoline and uranium powder.
Biden loses
OP blames the 5 tankies actually living in the USA for voting 3rd party
I was planning to blame Russian Internet robots
Or you could except that that the D party sometimes runs shit tir candidates.
accept
And yes, everyone already knows that.
They should have been preparing a replacement for Biden since he was sworn into office.
Now… Who really knows. There’s so much at stake for more than the presidency. If the choices are between a 78 year old felon under multiple indictments who is only out for himself, and an 81 year old who wants to better the country but is, well, 81… I’ll take the 81 year old
stirrrrrtt
Man I love love love not being from the US.
I live in Canada, 15 km from the US border. When shit kicks off down there millions of them could come north expecting that Canada will welcome them with open arms. We will be unable to feed or house them. Many will die of exposure in the first winter. They should go south and hope that Mexico will take them in.
As someone living around the Timmins area, we’ve imported some hot climate individuals and still have room, send them up! The Northlander should be running by then /fingers crossed/
It’s actually the other way around. Things are getting so bad in Canada that emigration to the US is at a 10 year high
I’m not sure if you completely missed my point or if hating Canada is so big a part of your identity now that you just can’t miss any opportunity to spread that Rusian and Chinese anti-Canadian propaganda.
“everything I don’t like is propaganda” - Typical Lemmy user
No, what I said is true. You’re Canadian, how do you not know this?
Source: CBC
Tens of thousands of Canadians are emigrating from Canada to the United States and the number of people packing up and moving south has hit a level not seen in 10 years or more, according to data compiled by CBC News.
There’s nothing new about Canadians moving south of the 49th parallel for love, work or warmer weather, but the latest figures from the American Community Survey (ACS) suggest it’s now happening at a much higher rate than the historical average.
http://cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-moving-to-the-us-hits-10-year-high-1.7218479
Actual reasons cited in the article: Lower taxes, higher wages, affordable housing, dislike of Trudeau’s politics, cheaper groceries, increasing crime rates, increasingly disappointing healthcare system, and warm weather
Whether you agree or disagree with these reasons is irrelevant. The point is that trend is there and it’s accelerating. So to your tongue in cheek point about Americans mass migrating north, that likely won’t happen because the opposite trend is occurring as we speak.
Nice straw man. Typical propagandist.
Cost of Living in United States is 8.6% higher than in Canada (without rent)
Cost of Living Including Rent in United States is 14.1% higher than in Canada
Rent Prices in United States are 26.0% higher than in Canada
Restaurant Prices in United States are 8.7% higher than in Canada
Groceries Prices in United States are 5.2% higher than in Canada
But by all means, go on spreading your propaganda.
I’m not arguing for or against, I’m just pointing out the fact that emigration trend from Canada to the US is happening and it is at a 10 year high. I merely pointed out the reasons cited in the article as I clearly stated.
I love in Canada but have worked for US companies and worked internationally for 15 years. I would never, ever move to the US. Ever.
My belief is that the people moving to the US are moving there for, “freedumb” (no realizing that Canadians enjoy more actual freedom and have better protection of their rights than Americans do) I’m I’m more than ok with that.
I’m in Europe and things aren’t really better here… Putin on the east, LePen and Meloni on the west…
Íf he wore a clown suit and only spoke Pig-Latin during the debate… considering the alternative
He would STILL be the only viable candidate worth voting for
In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.
-Hannah Arendt, German-American philosopher and political theorist, in fuckin 1964 lmao. some things never change!
So, explain how not voting assures us that we don’t get Trump again.
Simple. If nobody votes, neither candidate will win.
I’m going to assume that you’re being sarcastic.
For those who think this is an option, remember that the MAGoos vote in every election.
IMO the disconnect lies in the fact that many don’t see Biden as the “lesser evil.” They want to vote for Biden, because they’ve been influenced to think it is the only option.
Arendt is making an observation of a “no-win situation”.
Voters want a solution to that situation, so they make assumptions to come to a conclusion that fits the narrative they tell themselves.
Some, when faced with a no-win situation, choose to not play the game. Others, convince themselves that the lesser-evil is a desirable outcome. Many, myself included, want to “change the conditions of the test.”.
There is no viable solution. All choices are valid and should be respected.
The only way to change the conditions of the test is to get out and support Left-leaning Dems in primaries.
And no, not all choices are valid. Voting doesn’t just affect the voter, it affects the whole country.
You have no idea what I’m trying to communicate and it’s disconcerting to me. It’s a failure on my part to communicate effectively. I’m sorry.
Keep at it. You learn by doing something; making a mistake; then doing it again a little better.
Yeah the Nazis would’ve never come to power if everyone just abstained from voting instead of coalescing under one lesser evil /s
It’s a frigging figure of speech. It doesn’t literally mean both options are “evil” anytime it is used. And you’re not “choosing evil” by voting for Biden — not for the people whose lives will be ruined if Trump wins. For many you are preventing evil.
If a few more people in a few states had chosen the “lesser evil” of Hillary over Trump, the Supreme Court wouldn’t be delivering supreme evil every few months for the foreseeable future.
(I don’t need to hear about how Hillary did a bad job in the election — it doesn’t change the fact that the consequences are what they are.)
This premise depends on the assumption that “everyone is stupid except for me!”
We can sum up the sentiment as “don’t choose the lesser of two evils because you’re fucking moron that forgets things easily!”
because you’re fucking moron that forgets things easily!"
It’s more that the worst thing you’re willing to accept becomes the new normal.
And then something that was previously unthinkable becomes thinkable. And then if you accept that because it’s the lesser evil, it becomes the new “new normal”. Continue in a downward spiral.
Look at the state we’re in now, with Trump and Biden. That’s the result of decades of picking “the lesser evil”.
At some point you have to say “no more”.
Agreed, and by this argument it will only get worse. The next versions of biden and trump will both be worse if we keep going the same route.
You’re ignoring the fact that people have been opting out of voting for decades.
People in 1968 couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Humphrey, and we got Nixon.
They couldn’t bear Jimmy Carter, and we got Reagan.
“Both sides are the same” is the Right’s best pal.
NAFO profile pic
worst opinion I’ve ever seen
A tale as old as time
Tankie being triggered by reality… tale as old as… well not time… but as old as Stalin anyway.
Hannah Arendt was tankie?
Except that Biden is in no way evil. Being old is not evil, and his administration has done a lot of great things.
That’s right, the man bypassing congress to ship weapons for Israel to bomb refugee tents with is actually a smol bean good guy, that’s SO true
I mean the alternative is literally fascism. Not the silly internet “fascism” that’s just about someone that disagrees with you that you perceive is right of you on some silly made up political spectrum. Actual full blown fascism.
So yeah you need to vote for Joe Biden.
I’m not sure if OP understands what a Tanky is.
Tankie is just the blue version of Woke at this point
According to hexbear it’s just anything that’s not western/liberal
Well when the only other vote is fascism, hate, and bullying… Yeah we’re gonna vote for the not ridiculous choice.
This is some weird ass propaganda.
The best thing that Biden ever did was just to not be Trump.
Why are these memes so weirdly die-hard in the support of a man that is visibly unfit for the 4 years of presidency?
No one is actually excited about old Joe. It’s just that he’s simply not Trump.
It would be best if he steps down so that we can get a person in office that actually excites people for more than just not being the other guy.
Really, if the Dems brought in someone who was like… 50 (and probably not Newsom owing to prolonged hateboner for Cali) they’d gain 10 points in the polls immediately. Whether true or not, the narrative that Biden is old and doddering is there and that debate performance did nothing to dissuade it.
He had a cold, okay. /s
Why don’t they seal the deal with anyone younger ? Surely there’s one better young person in the USA ?
Surely there’s one better young person in the USA ?
None of them ran. Biden’s admin and his fund raising base held enormous sway over the party at-large. As soon as he corralled the support of this tiny monied elite, everyone else had to either get in line or get marked as party pariahs and ousted for their disloyalty.
The pastiche of democracy is predicated on a primary system that can produce and sustain rival candidates. But when leadership in the party are terrified of “Russian bots” and “Leftist Antifa Agitators” undermining the general election, they circle the wagons around their incumbents and bow down to their mega-donors out of cowardice.
No rival candidates means no real primary means no one actually challenges Biden on his merits.
The primary system is obviously corrupted. The incumbent managed to shut out everyone else. This happened on both sides of this inept stupid system. Two candidates who it is painfully obvious are unfit for the job. Geriatrics clogging up the political machine stopping even retirees from having a go.
The youth backlash will eventually upend everything, since not only they are denied a voice, but they will also be made the servants of the boomers for much of the next 20 years.
The US political system has some issues. That’s why. Ask the DNC.
The DNC replied that you are just a secret Trump fan. The party knows what is best and you should not expect primaries and having a say. Also we have always been at war with East-Asia.
Hey, at least you got a reply. 🤣
It’s first past the post plus old people wanting to vote for super old people because “they’re just like them”.
I’m sure that herding behind a senile will give the Democratic Party the incentive to reconsider their corporate-oriented outlook /s
deleted by creator
The best thing that Biden ever did was just to not be Trump.
The economy is booming.
It’s just that he’s simply not Trump.
I’m not sure you realize just how big of a single issue this is.
Trump is a psychopathic cult leader running a campaign of lies, defamation, and retribution. He aspires to be the US’s first authoritarian leader, and wants to turn the nation into a nuclear armed Switzerland. He wants to keep inflation high so that corporate America can continue to enrich the few at the expense of the many. He is literally telling business prices will continue to rise, while simultaneously promising the public that he will bring “Biden’s” high prices down. It’s utter madness.
Because he is “not Trump” could not be a deeper reason to vote for Biden. Especially when not voting or voting for a third party candidate effectively empowers Trump’s campaign and the many more on the right who will always vote for their team no matter what.
The economy is booming
For who? The American people are struggling. Meanwhile the wealth gap is wider than it’s literally ever been and Biden is too busy bombing brown children to give a shit
The perception is not quite the same as the reality.
Nevertheless, Trump is doing a better job of fueling this view and promising change, even if it’s all lip service - he doesn’t care because his followers believe everything he says.
The reality is things are better now than in 2020 for most Americans. Unemployment is very low, and wages are up. Relative to the richest of course things are only getting more distant but again, you want Trump to bring equality? Good luck with that, lol.
Well, in the current economy, the statistical indicators that economists rely on are booming. GDP, etc. What folks on the left like us are saying is that those indicators are easily measurable but do not paint an accurate picture of what most Americans are experiencing. It doesn’t feel like a boom out here because, well, it ain’t.
It’s not like we’re sipping champagne, kicking it at the beach, and complaining that the guy next door has a nicer beach. We work just as hard as other generations and get a lot less to show for it.
Acknowledging that is important, but corporate politicians in either party seem like they just don’t want to anything about it.
Still voting for Biden, but yeah, not enthusiastically.
Okay, yeah nah I’m with you. I like to think that’s what I was getting at, but you said it better.
If I could vote for Biden I too, would do so without enthusiast. Let’s hope he steps down though. I swear anyone else has a bettwr chance at this point.
The only outcome that might suck even more is if Biden did step down, Kamala steps up, and she still loses. Cuz then it’s like… oh so we’re just gonna be misogynistic as a voter base now, great, thanks fellow Americans. Like, we were ready to vote for a shambling shell of an old man but not a lady with Hillary Clinton energy, okay. 🤦
Hah, I didn’t want to say “except Kamala Harris” but that may be the truth after all.
On the other hand, it could be racism rather than misogyny. I have a feeling Taylor Swift would have no trouble winning. 🤣
No I want both of them to unalive, preferably as violently as possible. Unemployment is a vastly flawed metric that doesn’t account for underemployment or discouraged workers, and real wages would be significantly down if the government was accurately measuring inflation, which they’re intentionally not doing so they can continue to pretend that everything’s fine.
Nobody is saying things are fine. They’re just not as bad as they could be, or as bad as might feel to a lot of middle class folks. It’s still very shit for baby though don’t get me wrong.
Not going to wish violence on Biden - he’s only improved things relative to where they were at the end of Trump’s term. But I do want him to walk off into the sunset away from the presidency.
Trump on the other hand I agree is living excrement so I’d be quite happy for him to be flushed. I don’t care about revenge though. I just want his stink gone from the world.
You only say things are fine bc it doesn’t affect you personally that much. Also please stop claiming that Biden has improved anything other than AIPAC’s grip on our tax dollars.
I’m sorry if you’re having a hard time, but the statistics and the Bills Biden has passed are improvements for many, even if they don’t help you personally.
Anyway, hopefully we agree we both want Trump gone, and Biden too. Given how terrible Biden was at the debate there’s a good chance now, and that will mean a better chance the democrats defeat Trump.
Then, the work begins to achieve something even better than what the Democrats have to offer. But it isn’t coming from the right-wing, that’s for sure.
“I just don’t get why people would like ‘not’ being set on fire. Like, it’s just a little fire, what are you, combustible fats wrapped in flammable organic fabrics? I guess it’s simply that it’s not being set on fire that they like. It’s so weird and frustrating.”
I’d vote for ToS era Pike over Trump. I’d vote for a candidate who only communicates via ouija board over Trump. I’d vote to not have a president for 4 years before I’d vote for Trump.
It’s crazy that Trump can get convicted of fraud, be found liable for sexual assault, promise to abuse presidential power to get revenge against those who cross him, actively undermine both national and global security, promise to round up millions and put them into camps, attempt to overthrow the election and refuse to not try it again, and so on, and his side is still so loyal they’ll wear solidarity diapers for him.
I’m so down for ouija board prez.
Ouija board prez ‘channeling’ FDR: T-A-X-T-H-E-R-I-C-H-Goodbye
lol
I’d vote for a candidate who only communicates via ouija board over Trump.
Give it a few months
Maybe they can settle for one of those wheelchair computers that tracks your eyes looking at the letters.
He is like a cult’s leader, they can do no wrong. People’s belief in him is unflappable.
I’d rather have an empty chair than Trump.
I’d vote to not have a president for 4 years before I’d vote for Trump.
And now I’m curious how many things depend on having a president at all, and what his role is, by design, in the US and other countries.
Cabinet and federal appointments are the big thing. That’s why I’ll take Biden over Trump. I’m not just voting for him, I’m voting for the 4000 jobs in energy, health, labor, transportation, etc. to be run by Democrats, liberals, and qualified people.
Trump, and project 2025 plan to fill all those roles with right wing nutjobs who will do anything to please the right. On top of those 4000, they’d expand the presidential appointment power to fire up to 45% of the federal workforce. Meteorologist who said the hurricane won’t hit Alabama? GONE! Doctor who said injecting bleach was a bad idea? FIRED!
I’ll take anyone who won’t put Project 2025 in motion.
Didn’t we have a ouija board as a president back when Nancy’s psychic was running the show?
No, you fools, the divine spirits of the stars are different than ghosts!
Might be a cool meme campaign, listing all the things that are better than Trump one by one. You could have a new one every day until the election day easily.
You realistically could name 100 per day and still not run out of ammo.
Maybe we don’t associate Biden with fascism frog
If we let the fascists claim any symbol they want, we will have nothing left.
Pepe was just a depressed frog boi. Pepe is only fascist if we let the fascists win
I used to joke back in 2014 that if Milo Yian-whatever, Ben Shapiro and Gavin McInnes just had a biweekly meeting and decided on a hand sign, an image and a word to use heavily in social media for the following month that everything could be made into a dogwhistle within a year.
Go ahead and get a few swastika tattoos then
deleted by creator
Its literally a copy of a 2016 trump meme except they replaced Trump with Biden. This meme was deployed whenever Trump would “shit the bed” by 2015 standards.
He’s already associated with support for genocide.
Pepe and his variations never represented any political ideology. The only thing that Pepe and Wojak represent is the internet
But it is. A symbol can mean different things in different context. For example, this hand gesture 👌 means okay in Western cultures but means something more insulting and offensive in Arab culture. Does that mean one is right and is the one and only representation of the gesture? Of course not. Same here. Swastikas have been around for thousands of years across many different cultures and has many different meanings. It’s just one variation of the symbol that ended up being used by the nazis and is offensive to most people. It’s silly and rather close minded to try to disregard all these disregard all these different context and meanings when many of them have been around for longer than the nazi variation. The principle applies here.
Please remember that this particular groyper meme is a literal copy of a Trump 2016 meme with the word “Trump” replaced with “Biden” and was deployed regularly by the alt-right. Please keep that in context while you give the argument that its in a totally different context. Its like responding to dog whistling accusations with more dog whistling.
Yeah… sure. Not a tankie, I’m European and don’t care about influencing you to vote for one or another. But after seeing Biden “debate” Trump I know the dems are fucked. I mean sure, still go out and vote, but I honestly don’t see many people doing so.
Absolutely go vote. Tell everyone you know to vote. Don’t vote for Trump. But for the love of god, if you’re otherwise not going to vote, at least vote third party.
They’re…from Europe.
I’m referring to other readers
Vote down-ticket. Especially for state level Secretary of State and Attorney General candidates. That’s how we’re going to get ranked choice voting in more states
The Dems are intentionally throwing it. It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point. The “Not Trump” donations are lucrative, and there’s no way the R’s will make insider trading illegal.
This might be the spark we need for a legitimate progressive party though. Or we get a civil war, who knows.
It’s honestly extremely sad that the primary requirement to be a leader is “ability to speak perfectly on stage for 2 hours.”
It should be a basic requirement of literally any public office. That fact that we have got this far baffles me utterly.
Yeah it’s not great, but like… coming across as coherent is important no matter the position. Biden kinda failed that basic competency test, probably just due to his age and not like, stupidity or a personal failing of any kind. I’m still voting for Biden, but yeah it’s not exactly an enthusiastic vote.
I am a tankie and voting for Biden lmao. The Prolitariat must be protected till enough class conciousness is achieved for Socialism to succeed.
You sound like a rational tankie, which by the definitions that lemmies have explained to me, would make you not a tankie.
“Anyone who thinks themselves a tankie is too self aware to be one” sounds like one of those fallacies you’d learn about in highschool. (What is a tankie, btw? I’ve been too scared to ask…)*
A tankie is, broadly, someone who wants to effect left-wing ideology using authoritarian methods. It originally referred to those who defended the USSR using tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution, but it could be aptly used to describe those who defend China’s actions in Tiananmen Square. It’s rightfully used as a perjorative, since authoritarian enforcement is antithetical to leftism, particularly communism.
Tankies are hypocrites who didn’t understand their self-proclaimed ideologies. If someone’s idea of communist praxis is lining up dissenters for the firing squad, you’re dealing with a tankie.
wants to effect left-wing ideology using authoritarian methods
Odd. I’m getting called a tankie because I just won’t vote for Biden (or Trump). Someone must have gotten confused.
By their reasoning:
No vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. Trump is fascist and authoritarian. Tankies are authoritarians. Therefore, you are a tankie. /s
Lots of people say lots of silly things, nonetheless Trump is worse for the proletariat than Biden, and turning your nose up at the lesser evil endangers real people when the greater evil wins. You don’t have to vote for the greater evil to help tip the scales in their favor. Accelerationism is authoritarianism with extra steps and no one in the driver’s seat.
Biden doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. Biden’s family doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. Biden’s campaign doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. The DNC leadership doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. People who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries don’t accept blame for tipping the scale in their favor. Moderaters and political analysts don’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. People like you letting those people get away with that and focusing on telling me to be quiet and vote for Biden don’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor.
I don’t accept blame for it either.
IDGAF who does or doesn’t accept blame for whatever. I care about material results; my future, my family’s future, my neighbors’ futures, the future of the people who live in this country, and this world. IDGAF how ideologically pure a politician is, or who’s wrong or right, or who gets away with whatever. I care about the people who are going to suffer if the Federalists, Fascists, and Fundamentalists keep establishing their foothold judge by judge, bill by bill, ruling by ruling.
This isn’t grade school, this isn’t a game, this isn’t about fair. There are real stakes here. People will die. I’m not heartless enough to play the blame game with lives on the line. I’m voting harm reduction because I’m an adult and I play the hand I’m dealt. Righteously losing doesn’t help anything but ego-centric deontology.
Tankies are hypocrites who didn’t understand their self-proclaimed ideologies.
Tankies are very frequently the only people in the room who’ve done the reading. If you believe that so called “authoritarian methods” are antithetical to leftism, then I recommend you read the following pamphlet by Engels.
Tankies have read Marx and Engels, yes, but there are many other forms of leftism and even other forms of communism that aren’t ML. You are right about ML communists, in particular, but many other leftist movements are anti-authoritarian by their nature, so the point still stands.
Also, it’s possible to do the reading and disagree with the methods of implementation. I agree with the economics and the stated goals of communism, but I don’t believe authoritarianism is the best way to go about it.
but I don’t believe authoritarianism is the best way to go about it.
Humor me for a moment, which of the following do you consider authoritarian?
- asking your boss for better wages
- using the power of a union to force your boss to give your coworkers better wages
- using the power of the state to force all bosses to pay all workers better wages
You completely disregard, that the soviet union did number 3 and crushed all unions not falling in line. Or that they ignore the will of the proletariat during the 1917 and 1918 elections numerous times.
The authoritarian way isnt being critized for coming down on Capitalists. Its critized for how it treated every deviation from the party line. And especially, how it turned into a political chess game at the top, which prioritized amassing personal power and wealth over the actual well being of the state.
I hop off the train at the part where the top-down dictatorship comes into play. Probably a bit before the level of authoritarianism where the Joseph Stalin type starts killing people for having a dissenting opinion, and what not.
Using the state to enforce good wages and end the terribleness of the stock market/landlord culture does not need to involve a top down dictatorship and a lack of democracy.
I know about the “dictatorship of the proletariat” and all that, and in my opinion, it should involve all of the workers, not one person or a small group of people. A top down dictatorship just makes it all that easier for the party to be infiltrated and controlled by bourgeois interests. If said dictatorship is a true democracy, with each worker having an equal say, it makes it pretty hard to control the proles.
There’s a difference between someone-needs-to-coordinate-and-manage-complex-undertakings “authoritarian” and line-the-dissidents-up-against-the-wall “authoritarian”. Tankies are the latter.
We have class war waged against us by the bourgeoisie, and thousands of people are casualties of that war every single day. Expecting to turn the tide against them without getting our hands dirty in turn is useless idealism.
Uh huh, and historically violent authoritarian transitional regimes are always so willing to step aside after the transition.
I’m a tankie. What tankie is supposed to mean is someone who blindly supports anything anyone does so long as they claim to be communist and wave a red flag. There’s maybe a handful of edgy teens who actually fit that description, but the way it’s actually used is to punch left at anyone who supports anything a socialist country has ever done, or who is insufficiently patriotic/nationalistic and is willing to consider things from an internationalist perspective.
If you say for example that Cuba under Castro had a successful literacy program, then there are people who will accuse you of being a tankie. Because it gets used this way, some people like myself chose to reclaim the insult and wear it proudly.
Generally, the actual term for most “tankies” would be Marxist-Leninist. But I actually prefer tankie because it’s a more general, big tent label. It’s used so broadly that even anarchists can be called tankies. It’s basically like “woke” where it doesn’t actually have any real meaning.
Well I think there are probably a half dozen interpretations that people on Lemmy use. One I have heard repeated is that they view the Tiananmen Square event as something that China rightfully did… hence “Tankie”
The idea that that’s the origin of the term is a common misconception. The actual origin was about the USSR under Kruschev sending in the military in response to a rebellion in Hungary. Some British communists supported the move, while other communists opposed it and labeled the supporters as tankies.
But regardless of the origin, it’s changed to where now it’s liberals using it to criticize socialists in general.
If you say for example that Cuba under Castro had a successful literacy program, then there are people who will accuse you of being a tankie just for that.
$COUNTRY had a successful literacy program under $LEFT_GOVERMENT.
Militant leftist, in the most basic sense.
But anti-leftists tend to co-opt the term to replace ‘fascist’ or ‘nazi’ in their discourse.
I am by no means an expert, but the test that was explained to me is that if you look at the famous tianamen square picture of the guy holding grocery bags facing down a line of tanks, and then proceed to side with the line of tanks, then you’re a tankie.
When I say that I am not an expert, what I actually mean is that I’m a random idiot from the internet, so don’t take anything I say as gospel truth.
I’ve only been on lemmy for a few months, and I’ve never heard the term tankie on any other platform. My understanding is that a tankie is a militant supporter of communism, who completely disregards (or is in support of) how every time it’s ever actually been done it turns into an authoritarian dictatorship (or something similarly unpleasant to live under).
My own biases exposed: I am an american, and most of what I know I learned in the absolutely fucked american public education system, which says communism = evil, because of the red scare a while back.
If you do some googling, there’s a wikipedia article on the subject. I’ve forgotten most of the content of that article shortly after I read it, I should look at it again and maybe it will stick this time.
People that are happy to run people over in tanks to force their communist version of society on everyone else.
THANK YOU. It’s that fkin simple.
So simple, yet so hard for so many to understand.
Most folks are dumber than a chickens.
And I’d vote for a corpse before I vote for 34 time Convicted Felon Donald Trump. Eat the rich. Pack the courts. Seize the assets of felonious companies.
Mother fucker could be Dracula for all I care. Still voting for him.
Dracula is cool as fuck tho.
My favorite theme so yeah, def voting for that.
https://youtu.be/1Onr4z2fdDM - Dracula’s pretty based, ngl.
I’m gonna be honest, I was thinking of Dracula flow when I posted this.
There is russian meme “voting for stool just to vote against UR”.
You get it! We can’t fuck over vulnerable people. We can’t abandon minorities and LGBT people. Even if we let things get worse to the point of a societal collapse, a lot of people will die because of it – and societal collapse has not historically led to better societies down the road.
That’s such an important point. Anyone who thinks a win by Trump will somehow speed up the advent of socialism is just deluded.
People think Trump will eventually make things so bad that the average man will salivate at the chance for Socialist rule…
What will actually happen if you get a nasty concoction made from a pinch of Handmaid’s Tale with a dash of Holocaust 2…
And the average man won’t care, as long as the trains run on time and they owned the libs… and if the trains don’t run on time, they probably have libs to blame.
trains run on time
I am here to regretfully inform you about the state of american rail infrastructure…
I know, I sadly know.
My trans friends are what keeps me committed to voting Biden no matter how disappointed I am in him. Things are already really scary for them right now and I can’t be complicit in making them worse, even through inaction.
Consider me another one of your trans friends. If Trump gets elected I’m probably gonna die in a concentration camp. Don’t do that to me, don’t do that to them. I’m begging you for my life.
As a transwoman as well, I second this!
Don’t let the fascist win!
I’d suggest taking a flight overseas the day after the elections, booked prior to it. If Trump losses, you can use it to celebrate it. If he wins… well, you can ask for asylum on arrival.
Can’t afford that…
I am trans and not voting for Biden. I refuse to sacrifice Palestinians for my own safety or the safety of my loved ones. All the stuff people say now about them being an acceptable sacrifice or there being nothing they can do about it, that’s what they’ll be saying about us tomorrow. Solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable strategy for long term survival.
I hate being used as a rhetorical token to make people feel better about selling out another vulnerable group.
Trans people are not a monolith. There’s other trans people in this thread begging us to vote for Biden for their safety. Your feelings about being a rhetorical token are not invalid, but recognize that other people in your vulnerable group are legitimately crying out for help.
Either way, I’m glad I’m not one of your loved ones. Your own safety is one thing. Their safety is another.
They’re entitled to their views, as I am to mine.
I will do whatever I can to protect my loved ones and ensure they retain access to their meds. But I cannot go against the dictates of my conscience. And as I said, in the long term, solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable path forward and I will not sacrifice that long term strategy for some fleeting, half-hearted protection. In fact I’ve already seen people applying the “lesser evil” argument to sacrificing trans rights since I posted this. Only by uniting and drawing a red line do we have a chance in the long run.
Removed by mod
If our “democracy” has decayed to the point where I’m not able to vote on whether or not we do a genocide, then it is not a democracy and I should not legitimize the sham through participation.
There is no circumstance under which I will support genocide. If that means I die, then I will die. If any of you had a backbone you’d do the same. And if enough people drew that line, they’d have no choice but to listen to us.
Removed by mod
Oh, does Biden support ranked choice voting, then?
He doesn’t. I’m not going to support asshole after asshole in the vain hope that maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they’ll eventually give us freedom, which directly opposes their own interests. You’re the one that needs to grow up if you believe that fairy tale.
I respect this decision. But, I’m selfishly voting for Biden. Trump’s first term stressed me out.
Tbh I’m fine with respectful disagreement.
Thoughtful, educated and informed voting decisions should be respected. Shame on this duopoly for forcing its electorate to choose between tacit support for a genocide, and outright fascism.
Thank you. I have to vote according to my conscience and what I believe is right, but if someone else’s conscience tells them differently, I can make my case but ultimately it is their decision to make. So many people on here expect everyone to think and see things the exact same way as them and can’t even seem to imagine someone having different values or a different perspective, and that can be very frustrating.
Right? Imagine it’s a fucking Saw Trap, and there’s an easy way out without sacrificing anyone… and an equally easy way out sacrificing everyone. Make the less sociopathic choice.
I can’t even imagine how awful the people who fill that vacuum would be.
We can’t fuck over vulnerable people.
That’s what you’re doing when voting for Dems.
Yes, I see how you’re protecting me when you elect the party that would arrest me for being a “Public Danger” because of the fact that I’m trans.
If you would get off your ass and gather support for a decent party this wouldn’t be a problem.
“Your lack of support for Democrats may end up empowering people who will throw me in jail just for who I am”
“Stop being lazy and go improve a better party”
You’re entitled to your opinion dude, but you were a major dick here.
Your lack of support for Democrats may end up empowering people who will throw me in jail just for who I am
Your support of Dems is what prevents a real opposition to fascism.
You’re entitled to your opinion dude, but you were a major dick here.
Truth hurts, don’t care.
Here’s a brutal truth for you then. Being a raging, unapologetic jerk won’t progress your political goals. It’ll only make them harder to achieve.
Also, you’re a fucking asshole.
Last I tried my Socialist Party USA chapter belittled me, called me a rape apologist, and refused to do anything for the local community outside of shaming people for wanting to vote out Trump by any means possible.
That sucks, i bet there’s a more accepting party in your area for you. Try PSL or Green party
Go educate yourself, and then you can join the adult discussions.
Oh the irony.
Agreed, hopefully someday you understand it.
Right, you should educate yourself.
Removed by mod
The poor is the most clear. Also black people, just look at our prisons, and the crime bill Joe Biden wrote
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
If you don’t know the answer to this already, I suppose the backlash against Biden from progressives might seem like bots or foreign propaganda.
Removed by mod
Nope. I just understand democracy.
I feel like this reply is for someone else? We’re both coming from a leftist position. Democrats only think they’re being overrun with bots and propaganda because they aren’t actually politically informed enough to know the valid reasons why people don’t like them.
You’re right, misread
Biden is literally arming a genocide. He was even adamant about his continued support for that. Meanwhile Dems led cities have brutally beaten up peaceful colelge protests and invited fascist MAGA mobs to attack minority students there.
The DNC and Biden do not protect minorities. They are white supremacists with just a bit more moderation to the means they employ, but they will absolutely resort to authoritarian crackdowns if they feel the minorities to step out of line by demanding justice and rights.
Most based .ml user
On one hand I’d like it if the Democrats put up someone more certain to beat Trump. On the other Joe has shown he supports labor and things are moving in the right direction in that regard. I’d hate it if he we get a corpo Democrat that halts this progress.
This is the way.
Based and practicalpilled
Thank you for being a sane human 🙏
Oh my god! A tankie who’s not fucking stupid. I never thought I’d see the day.
The Prolitariat must be protected
By consenting to corruption and a path to WWIII. That is not protecting them, in fact it is ensuring them a terrible future. If you cared about them, you would vote, volunteer, donate, and support the PSL, CPUSA, or Green party instead.
Lmao the green party isn’t going to do jack shit. They’re completely unserious about politics. They aren’t even trying to build up an infrastructure in all 50 states that lets them get suffused into local and state politics. They aren’t even aiming for Congressional seats, which would be necessary for an actual Green president to get anything done.
They’re just anti science grifters who think wifi causes cancer, entertain vaccine skepticism, and demonize nuclear energy – the latter of which could be a major asset to stopping global warming. Newer designs are even able to consume nuclear waste, meaning an anti nuclear position results in more waste than we would otherwise.
I actually had my local Socialist Party USA chapter kick me out, ban me from their facebook, and publicly announce that I’m a rape apologist because I wouldn’t tell people to support an openly transphobic “Vaccines Cause Autism” candidate over Joe Biden.
Then support the PSL. I work with the Green party to improve it, because that’s how democracy works. It’s okay you don’t understand that.
I’m afraid all of us don’t have that much free time. But hey, if you can get them to stop being anti science and actually become a serious party, I’ll consider them.
Just don’t expect me to accept the Green Party’s many imperfections. If you don’t accept the Democrat’s imperfections, then you should perfectly understand.
Send them an email and discuss your issues. They are the only voice in politics that supports the science of climate change.
Democrats don’t have imperfections, they are fundamentally flawed because they are corrupt.
Until Stein vehemently recants her remarks about WiFi causing cancer, vaccine skepticism, and nuclear fear mongering – or the Green party completely disavows her and those remarks – it would be a total waste of time.
It isn’t my job as an engineer to tell “the only voice in politics that supports the science of climate change” to stop endorsing completely anti science positions. Nor is it on me to try and correct a willfully anti science party. They need to show good faith, and they’ve done nothing whatsoever to suggest any of that to me.
None of those parties have a ghost of a chance of winning, and with as razor thin as the win margins were in 2016 and 2020, I’m not confident Biden won’t win if we don’t vote for him. I sincerely hope I do not have to explain why Trump would be worse on literally every issue (especially Gaza) than Biden is.
Then do something about it instead of complain. I am, what are you doing? You vote for corruption.
Nobody likes voting for the lesser of two evils, but we all have to if we want to stop an even further decline into hell. Our system is broken, and we don’t have any way of fixing it immediately, so we have to work with what we can. Trump as president will have immediate and direct consequences for many people, and it will be the fault of people like you that it happened. At this point, not voting for Biden is the same thing as voting for Trump. You may continue virtue signaling after we get through the crisis right in front of us.
You’re not voting for the lesser of two evils, you are voting for corruption and evil while doing absolutely nothing about it.
The system is set up in a way that the only viable options are between two evils, unfortunately. Under a FPTP system where the only good options are minority parties that won’t win a single seat in their districts, you’re left with the choice of voting for the lesser evil, or voting for your morals but increasing the risk of the greater evil winning.
It’s a no-win situation.
No, you can vote for whoever you want. You all on here are too lazy to gather support for another party.
You’re voting for no one, giving more of a chance for the greater of two evils and still doing nothing. Where your fucking guillotine?
I’m voting for Jill Stein. And I got one out back.
Bro’s protest voting when the
WeimarAmerican Republic has Nazis on the ballot and thinks building “grassroots support” for the twentieth year in a row justifies it when the world is about to run out of time anywaysYou want Green candidates? Tell them to run as Democrats or make a fucking militia.
Dems are actually fascists, and you are as well for not only voting for them, but gathering support for them online when you could be doing that for a decent party.
This is something I would say as a joke to make fun of a strawman version of you
Joe’s crime bill is absolutely fascist.
Yes, yes, we all know what happens when you scratch a liberal but it’s better than not having to scratch to find it. Even if all that’s holding the powers that be back is a skin-deep veneer of civility and deniability, a vote to strip that veneer away makes you a fool, not a revolutionary.
it’s better than not having to scratch to find it.
There’s no need to scratch. They openly support the genocide of children.
The real fool is the one that puts no effort into change.
🤡
Imagine watching that debate and saying someone is a clown for not voting for them.
The Democrat party is just as corrupt and bought out by corporations as the Republicans are, but at least they aren’t trying to get the country to circle the drain as quickly.
The past 4 years prove you wrong on that.
