Meloni heads Italy’s most rightwing government since the second world war. Italy’s criminal code punishes with a fine ranging from €1,000 to €5,000 anyone who “publicly defames the republic”, which includes the government, parliament, the courts and the army.
That move just makes Brian seem more reasonable.
how to tell if youre in a facist state:
the person accusing the facist goes to jaildeleted by creator
If “civilised” means I have to tolerate fascists then I don’t wanna be civilised
Oh, Lemmy has fascists now.
The left wing was cutting public services, right. Famous left wing policy. I think you’re thinking of liberals.
One of the main ‘issues’ with decentralised social media is that it allows the fringes of the political spectrum to have a platform. We’ll have to find a way to get along.
It’s called defederation.
Defederation is an outrageously blunt instrument for moderation.
It’s part of a process.
- Step 1. Nazi says nazi things.
- Step 2. Non nazi reports to instance admin.
- Step 3. If the nazi is local, the instance admin can choose to ban. If not, the instance admin can choose to ban the user from their own instance and then escalate to the nazi’s instance admin.
- Step 4. If the nazi’s instance admin takes action, the nazi needs to find a new home, end of story. If not, that means that the nazi’s instance admin is chill with nazi shit.
- Step 5. The local instance admin can then chose to defederate from an instance that is chill with nazi shit.
To me this looks like a pretty robust process. What other steps would you add?
Main thing I can think of is an option for non-admin users to block an instance on the client side. Like blocking a community or user except it does both, for everybody from that instance.
I’m not sure I want to “get along” with fascists.
I’m sure I don’t.
My sentiment is the same, albeit wording.
Fascists get the wall
I share your general sentiment, I phrased the last part wrong - just trying to be civil in my post. Defederation with fascist instances would be the best shout.
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You don’t get along with nazis you exterminate them like you would any parasite.
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No you’re just a fascist agreeing with a fascist government. Might as well call yourself what you are.
Let me guess, whoever disagrees with your subjective experience is also a fascist am I rite
Fascism has an actual definition. People pretending it’s just a vague insult are likely fascists themselves in my experience.
Did disagreeing with you makes me a fascist in your eyes? If so thanks for demonstrating
It’s astounding these people still don’t realize how obvious their tells are. Blaming migrants? Almost certainly an insensible right winger.
Sorry but people who openly admire Mussolini (the original self-proclaimed fascist) are fascists pretty much by definition. Sounds like you may be one of them.
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Nobody went to jail.
Then it’s not a fascist state. Moving on
Pretty much. I don’t think people here know what a fascist state really is…
Historically, fascists didn’t start off with genocide. First, they got democratically elected…
Not what’s happening now,like at all XD
The nazis started by targeting lgbtq+ people. I wonder what scapegoat the far right has settled on these days?
Exactly like how it’s happening in every other country…
As Porco Rosso said: “I’d rather be a pig than a fascist”. Be like Porco Rosso…
Porko Rosso
Unless there’s a pun I’m missing here
Unless there’s a pun I’m missing here
“rather be a pig” and pork=pig meat
The character’s name is already Red Pig in Italian, though?
Yes but this is internationally friendly
Meloni is definitely far-right, and comes from a historically fascist party. So he is just stating the facts here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini , proud member of Forza Italia and defender of her grandfather.
She blocked me on Twitter just for telling her a really cool fact: there’s an emoji of her grandfather. It’s this one! 🙃
She did good, clearly you werent looking for a discussion …
Fascists don’t deserve a discussion.
Than don’t complain when they block you XD
Saves me the trouble of blocking them.
I don’t understand.
Look up how her grandfather died.
I thought he was shot, didn’t know the rest.
Grandpa’s last look into this world was being hung upside down and killed
I didn’t realise there was a rope element, just thought he was shot.
Do you mean the well the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
Is Georgia Menoni known to the rest of the world as anything other but the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
Proving them right, I see
Person: “You’re a fascist”
Government: “That’s wrong; we’re gonna use the power of the state to investigate and punish you for something you said”
Person: “Oh well I stand corrected. Totally not fascist at all…”
The USSR would also persecute people for criticizing the Soviet state or its leaders, but they weren’t fascist. Authoritarianism is something people on the left and right both get up to.
I’d argue the USSR was fascist the same way the DPRK is fascist. You aren’t necessarily left-wing just because you say you are.
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I can see the parallels but this really conflicts with the historical definition of fascist. Then again, practically everyone is a fascist these days at least according to someone, so maybe the historical definition doesn’t matter anymore. Guess that’s the downside of it being the universally despised bogeyman term in politics.
Thought it might be helpful to compare the USSR to Wikipedia’s definitions of fascism and communism. These definitions can be wrong or could be different than what they were at the height of the USSR, but perhaps it’ll help with finding common definitions. I’ll admit that my knowledge of USSR culture/governance is limited, so feel free to critique/refute any of my interpretations.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Checklist (hidden for brevity)
- +Dictatorial leader: Stalin wasn’t exactly a democratic ruler. Check.
- ?Centralized autocracy: AKA: One person has final say over any government decision. Probably, but maybe not depending on your definition?
- +Militarism: Definitely had a significant military focus. Check.
- +Forcible suppression of opposition: Yeah, that sounds par for the course for modern Russian government.
- ?Belief in natural social hierarchy: Does semi-deliberate wealth disparity and nationalistic superiority complex count?
- ?Subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race: Sounds likely, but not 100% sure.
- +Strong regimentation of society and the economy: Pretty sure the USSR had a planned centralized economy.
It hits 4/7 pretty firmly and the remaining 3 are plausible.
is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology… whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need. A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state.
Checklist (hidden for brevity)
- XCommon ownership of the means of production of goods/services: Weren’t these state-owned?
- XCommon ownership of the means of distribution of goods/services: ^
- XCommon ownership of the means of exchange of goods/services: ^^
- ?Allocates products to everyone in the society based on need: Wasn’t there significant poverty while others’ were well-fed? If distribution wasn’t tied to labor, then it could be argued this fits, if somewhat imperfectly.
- XAbsence of private property: Oligarchs don’t exactly scream “lack of private property”
- XAbsence of social classes: Again, oligarchs and poverty
- ?Absence of money: Can’t comment on this one
- XAbsence of the state: There was 100% an overarching state
Hits 2/8 at best, but I would be surprised to learn there wasn’t money in the USSR.
If left-wing authoritarianism isn’t an oxymoron, then what the heck does left-wing mean?
I agree that authoritarianism does not equal fascism, but the only meaningful definition of left-right politics (in my opinion) is a measure of belief in and adherence to social hierarchies. And the USSR was definitely heavily into hierarchy.
Why would it be an oxymoron? There is nothing on the political chart or inherent to it to forbid the left wing to be authoritarian.
This is my thinking, let me know if you see any issues with my interpretation:
First line of Wikipedia Left-wing politics: Left-wing politics describes the range of political ideologies that support and seek to achieve social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy as a whole.
First list of Wikiepdia Authoritarianism: Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting.
By these definitions, Left-wing politics should want to evenly distribute power democratically, whereas authoritarianism wants to centralise power in a single entity such as a the military or a dictator.
The perpetual dictatorship of the proletariat in Marxist-Leninism is functionally indifferent from the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The authoritarian leadership just becomes the new bourgeoisie.
All good with the definitions, please share them as much as you want.
My claim is extremely simple, nothing is gonna stop you as a left wing representative to reach those objectives through authoritarian means.
I don’t see how is that hard to understand unless you claim some kind of special position for either side.
In which case, this is not a conversation I’m interested in.
Yeah, that’s where the left-right concept kinda breaks down.
It feels wrong to say the USSR wasn’t left when you consider the many left policies they had and of course their origin.
I also agree with your idea of what left-wing should mean. I guess there’s no way to avoid complexity with topics like this.
I mean we are kind of splitting hairs a bit then. The worst thing about fascism is mostly the autocracy and the “ends justify lots of murder” attitude. When people talk about the evils of fascism that’s what they’re talking about.
Likewise, when people criticize Stalinism, they aren’t talking about the high minded ideals or even the questionable fashion choices. They are talking about the autocracy, and the “ends justify lots of murder” attitude.
Stalin was absolutely a fascist.
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Read about Red Fascism in history…
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He really wasn’t, though.
All fascists are authoritarians, not all authoritarians are fascist.
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Oh, Mellonhead is definitely a fascist, I’m just pointing out that you get the same kinda of oppression at the other end of the lef-right spectrum, too.
There’s plenty of oppression and violence smack dab in the center of the left right spectrum too. I’m not sure why horseshoe theory is so keen to equate Stalin, Mao, etc. with the violence of Hitler, Pinochet, etc. while ignoring the genocides of the Dutch East India Co. (and competitors), imperialism, the slave trade, settler colonialism, etc.
Thats the fascist paradox.
Call someone a fascist, if they want to oppress you because you lied, then you are right, so they can oppress you, but if they dont oppress you, then you are wrong and you are to be oppressed, but then you will be right.
As Italian is worth mentioning that these nationalist dimwits we have now in charge have being elected with a genius grade new electoral law pushed by the centre left coalition and especially devised in a bipartisan accord between the centre left and the centre right coalition to counter the rise of Movimento 5 Stelle (or any new “small” party) which would then interfere, as indeed it did in the previous election, with the well established bi-partitism which had been instated from Berlusconi since the late 90’s (as per P2 Masonry Group Manifest bullet point, https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_di_rinascita_democratica and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due).
As result of this new electoral law Meloni is holding Italian government by the balls with a mere actual 16,4% of votes on the voters total.
Let’s go into numbers, indeed Meloni coalition (“centre” right, lol) got 43,79% of the total valid votes, of which 26% for Meloni’s own Fratelli d’Italia party, but you must consider that these percentages do not include the 36,91% of citizens holding voting rights which didn’t actually vote at all, which means this non-group missed to be the largest non-coalition by little and de-facto resulted in non-being the most non-representative non-party.
So accounting for the 36.91% of non-voters Meloni is acting like an empress embodying the second coming of Mussolini with a scant 16.4% of actual voting preference. For this don’t forget to thank the center-left for pushing the afore mentioned new electoral law, because this only is what enabled her to act like she’s doing.BONUS: article on some buried past of Meloni as failed nerd wannabe career using public money
https://kotaku.com/georgia-meloni-italian-pm-fps-shooter-game-pope-unreal-1850163072We have an old saying in Germany, from the times of the Weimar Republic’s communists, which roughly translates to:
“Who has betrayed us? The Social Democrats”
It rhymes in German.
Wasn’t the Weimar communist party also the one who said “after Hitler, us”, and formed a coalition? I may be completely mistaken and misremembering. My impression was always that it wasn’t the center left nor the left at fault, it was their feuding with each other that allowed Hitler to rise.
Had the two groups seen each other as rivals and not enemies, I think things would be way different.
For “contempt of the institutions.”
TIL about Italy’s shunning of their past in contrast to the “collective guilt” felt by Germans after WWII
Sometimes it feels that Italy consists entirely of pasta, fascism and 🤌.
Italy has a real hardware love for fascism, it’s part of the culture, unfortunately. I wouldn’t be surprised if they go full Nazi in the coming decades.
Italy has a real hardware love for fascism
yup even italian computers are infected
I swear to god that I typed hardcore. lol
After WW2 italian socialist and communist parties where between the strongest ones in non USRR europe (if not the number one), but let’s just spout random nonsense for no reason
While the extreme right wing never disappeared, they were as much as a niche as the extreme left.
The country stayed between the left and the center until well into the 90s when a moderate right became more prominent and started to be closer to a 50/50 split
The general right wing radicalization we’re seeing now is way more recent and it’s hardly a phenomenon exclusive to Italy.
I totally agree that the current Italian government is ridiculous and that this problem with extreme right wing populism is becoming very serious in most western countries, Italy included.
But comparing this to a culture ingrained love for fascism when fascism didn’t last for even 1% of Italian history and culture is just asinine and ignorant.
This kind of attitude is ironically very similar to the racism you’re trying to criticize
With operation Gladio Italy was the core place for neonazi terrorist groups that received paramilitary training and funding by the US and carried out multiple terrorist attacks to be blamed on the left. It is hard to believe that the Italian government wouldnt have known and tolerated theses activities too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
The fact that the Italian military & it’s leaders were spared from the Nuremberg Trials made this all the easier.
Have you ever heard of Mafia. Bc if you come to this country they will mostly collectively lie and tell you" Hun? Naaaa that’s gone". You live here for a while and you like, oh ok, we just pretending it’s gone nice.
Now, what I would do if I were Brian Molko is I would absolutely go to trial. Turn it in a show. Either I get convicted, in which case, Meloni looks even more like a fascist, or I get exonerated, in which case, it’s the courts that are accepting that she’s a fascist.
5000E is not an issue, he can fundraise that in an afternoon.
GO BRIAN
Brian Molko continues to be based
Anytime Meloni gets upset about anything I just remind her to be like her grandpa and turn that frown upside down.
You’re thinking of Alessandra Mussolini.
Dang, thought this one was related to him too. We can still turn them upside down though right?
Need a lot more people to get a lot more radical first.
I’ve never really been a Placebo fan or a supporter until right now
Brian’s duet with David Bowie is a thing of beauty.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=c14qMbmP9eg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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How does this relate to an issue people face?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/italian-government-limits-parental-rights-of-gay-couples-1.6312851
In the absence of such recognition, the non-birth mother or father must go through the adoption process to establish parental rights
That’s pretty standard
Standard or not (which I checked in Canada it varies by province), it’s still a step backwards and creates unnecessary stress for already existing family units. That’s not even including the extra paperwork, time, and money spent by all parties involved just to fix a parental rights issue that didn’t exist. So how is this an issue that effects the people other than negatively?
I agree that it shouldn’t affect existing family units, but at the same time this isn’t anything unusual. The non biological parent has to go through the normal adoption process to be considered a legal guardian. The same thing should apply to heterosexual couples where one, or both, of the parents aren’t the biological parents of the children.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether something is the right thing to do if it’s considered the standard.
I understand where you’re coming from and there could be a lot of scenarios where adoption is a good option but at the end of the day homosexual couples don’t necessarily have the chance of both being biological parents like heterosexual couples do. What you’re describing is equality, but I would argue that it’s also discriminatory.
This user’s entire post history is hating artists and actively praising fascism.
Specifically artists, even. Very odd.
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There’s no reason to provide “genuine criticism” to a rabid dog.
Lol seethe harder like the little bitch you are
Lol. You managed to abandon your supposed disdain for ad hominem after (checks notes) one comment…
I don’t have a disdain for ad homs if they actually come attached with something. Whether it’s an argument, explanation, rebuttal, literally anything. But if the ad hom is used as a replacement for substance then is it meaningless and fallacious, but also shows a great deal of intellectual laziness.
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There’s anti-art hate spewed by the right, it surprised me too but its there. A lot of them usually start their rants with “art isn’t political” or “art has no value except monetary” and go from there
That gorilla account got banned btw
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poor baby, did you need attention?
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Baby you had to cope so hard you made another account just to comment here 😂
You can keep talking but I won’t see it. Enjoy!
Literal actual fascists behaving like fascists, surprise surprise.
Yeah this was my thought reading this, too.
Who woulda thunk that when you give the fascists power, they don’t stop being fascists! #surprisedpikachu
Didn’t the world fight a world war to stop this kind of government from taking full control over a people?
Nah, Italy’s fascists were never really purged, because the occupying Americans preferred them to the Communist partisans
I’m not saying that Americans didn’t play their dirty tricks as usual, but it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
As if that matters. As if Trump wasn’t elected by US voters after massive disinformation campaigns and international meddling.
Whether the people are partially to blame or not is a complicated topic. Both in the US and Italy, about half of the population were educated/smart enough to see through their propaganda. The right wing party still won though because they picked their target audience effectively and tailored their whole campaign around that audience.
@iByteABit @Damage forest for the trees…
Never laid the blame for that on anybody else
WW2 was started by the Nazis, so it was really them fighting for something. The rest of the world just defended itself
It’s a lot more problematic when the Nazis call from inside the house.
Ethiopians would disagree
Nah, just the one. And it was because he was killing hordes of people, not controlling them.
Um Mussolini’s Fascist Italy was very much in the war
But Franco got a pass. Probably because he didn’t invade his neighbors and committed his atrocities at home like a good little fascist.
Wait, which mussolini? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini
Not really
Gotta love the dipshits in the replies pushing the whole “the left calls anyone who disagrees with them a fascist!!1!” while conveniently leaving out any and all context as to what they’re disagreeing about. ~Cherri
