Meloni heads Italy’s most rightwing government since the second world war. Italy’s criminal code punishes with a fine ranging from €1,000 to €5,000 anyone who “publicly defames the republic”, which includes the government, parliament, the courts and the army.
So… they proved him right?
Kind of have to. Either he’s right and they do something of either he’s not right and broke a law, at which point they have to do something
Or they’re fascists
Ok I don’t know what you are doing anymore, either parroting or something else.
Yeah, but do they investigate for defamation or exposing “state secrets”?
Brian Molko continues to be based
“Giorgia Meloni, piece of shit, fascist, racist,” Molko shouted in Italian, as seen in fan videos from the concert posted on social media.
That’s not defamation, that’s a factual news update.
Fascist gonna crybully
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This user’s entire post history is hating artists and actively praising fascism.
Specifically artists, even. Very odd.
There’s anti-art hate spewed by the right, it surprised me too but its there. A lot of them usually start their rants with “art isn’t political” or “art has no value except monetary” and go from there
That gorilla account got banned btw
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poor baby, did you need attention?
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Baby you had to cope so hard you made another account just to comment here 😂
You can keep talking but I won’t see it. Enjoy!
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There’s no reason to provide “genuine criticism” to a rabid dog.
Lol seethe harder like the little bitch you are
Lol. You managed to abandon your supposed disdain for ad hominem after (checks notes) one comment…
I don’t have a disdain for ad homs if they actually come attached with something. Whether it’s an argument, explanation, rebuttal, literally anything. But if the ad hom is used as a replacement for substance then is it meaningless and fallacious, but also shows a great deal of intellectual laziness.
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How does this relate to an issue people face?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/italian-government-limits-parental-rights-of-gay-couples-1.6312851
In the absence of such recognition, the non-birth mother or father must go through the adoption process to establish parental rights
That’s pretty standard
Standard or not (which I checked in Canada it varies by province), it’s still a step backwards and creates unnecessary stress for already existing family units. That’s not even including the extra paperwork, time, and money spent by all parties involved just to fix a parental rights issue that didn’t exist. So how is this an issue that effects the people other than negatively?
I agree that it shouldn’t affect existing family units, but at the same time this isn’t anything unusual. The non biological parent has to go through the normal adoption process to be considered a legal guardian. The same thing should apply to heterosexual couples where one, or both, of the parents aren’t the biological parents of the children.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether something is the right thing to do if it’s considered the standard.
I understand where you’re coming from and there could be a lot of scenarios where adoption is a good option but at the end of the day homosexual couples don’t necessarily have the chance of both being biological parents like heterosexual couples do. What you’re describing is equality, but I would argue that it’s also discriminatory.
As Porco Rosso said: “I’d rather be a pig than a fascist”. Be like Porco Rosso…
Porko Rosso
Unless there’s a pun I’m missing here
“rather be a pig” and pork=pig meat
The character’s name is already Red Pig in Italian, though?
Yes but this is internationally friendly
Unless there’s a pun I’m missing here
Meloni is definitely far-right, and comes from a historically fascist party. So he is just stating the facts here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini , proud member of Forza Italia and defender of her grandfather.
She blocked me on Twitter just for telling her a really cool fact: there’s an emoji of her grandfather. It’s this one! 🙃
She did good, clearly you werent looking for a discussion …
Fascists don’t deserve a discussion.
Than don’t complain when they block you XD
Saves me the trouble of blocking them.
I don’t understand.
Grandpa’s last look into this world was being hung upside down and killed
I didn’t realise there was a rope element, just thought he was shot.
Look up how her grandfather died.
I thought he was shot, didn’t know the rest.
Do you mean the well the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
Is Georgia Menoni known to the rest of the world as anything other but the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
Didn’t the world fight a world war to stop this kind of government from taking full control over a people?
Not really
WW2 was started by the Nazis, so it was really them fighting for something. The rest of the world just defended itself
It’s a lot more problematic when the Nazis call from inside the house.
Ethiopians would disagree
Nah, just the one. And it was because he was killing hordes of people, not controlling them.
Um Mussolini’s Fascist Italy was very much in the war
But Franco got a pass. Probably because he didn’t invade his neighbors and committed his atrocities at home like a good little fascist.
Wait, which mussolini? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini
Nah, Italy’s fascists were never really purged, because the occupying Americans preferred them to the Communist partisans
I’m not saying that Americans didn’t play their dirty tricks as usual, but it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
Never laid the blame for that on anybody else
@iByteABit @Damage forest for the trees…
it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
As if that matters. As if Trump wasn’t elected by US voters after massive disinformation campaigns and international meddling.
Whether the people are partially to blame or not is a complicated topic. Both in the US and Italy, about half of the population were educated/smart enough to see through their propaganda. The right wing party still won though because they picked their target audience effectively and tailored their whole campaign around that audience.
I’ve never really been a Placebo fan or a supporter until right now
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Brian’s duet with David Bowie is a thing of beauty.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=c14qMbmP9eg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Proving them right, I see
As Italian is worth mentioning that these nationalist dimwits we have now in charge have being elected with a genius grade new electoral law pushed by the centre left coalition and especially devised in a bipartisan accord between the centre left and the centre right coalition to counter the rise of Movimento 5 Stelle (or any new “small” party) which would then interfere, as indeed it did in the previous election, with the well established bi-partitism which had been instated from Berlusconi since the late 90’s (as per P2 Masonry Group Manifest bullet point, https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_di_rinascita_democratica and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due).
As result of this new electoral law Meloni is holding Italian government by the balls with a mere actual 16,4% of votes on the voters total.
Let’s go into numbers, indeed Meloni coalition (“centre” right, lol) got 43,79% of the total valid votes, of which 26% for Meloni’s own Fratelli d’Italia party, but you must consider that these percentages do not include the 36,91% of citizens holding voting rights which didn’t actually vote at all, which means this non-group missed to be the largest non-coalition by little and de-facto resulted in non-being the most non-representative non-party.
So accounting for the 36.91% of non-voters Meloni is acting like an empress embodying the second coming of Mussolini with a scant 16.4% of actual voting preference. For this don’t forget to thank the center-left for pushing the afore mentioned new electoral law, because this only is what enabled her to act like she’s doing.BONUS: article on some buried past of Meloni as failed nerd wannabe career using public money
https://kotaku.com/georgia-meloni-italian-pm-fps-shooter-game-pope-unreal-1850163072We have an old saying in Germany, from the times of the Weimar Republic’s communists, which roughly translates to:
“Who has betrayed us? The Social Democrats”
It rhymes in German.
Wasn’t the Weimar communist party also the one who said “after Hitler, us”, and formed a coalition? I may be completely mistaken and misremembering. My impression was always that it wasn’t the center left nor the left at fault, it was their feuding with each other that allowed Hitler to rise.
Had the two groups seen each other as rivals and not enemies, I think things would be way different.
Person: “You’re a fascist”
Government: “That’s wrong; we’re gonna use the power of the state to investigate and punish you for something you said”
Person: “Oh well I stand corrected. Totally not fascist at all…”
Thats the fascist paradox.
Call someone a fascist, if they want to oppress you because you lied, then you are right, so they can oppress you, but if they dont oppress you, then you are wrong and you are to be oppressed, but then you will be right.
The USSR would also persecute people for criticizing the Soviet state or its leaders, but they weren’t fascist. Authoritarianism is something people on the left and right both get up to.
Stalin was absolutely a fascist.
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Read about Red Fascism in history…
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He really wasn’t, though.
All fascists are authoritarians, not all authoritarians are fascist.
I mean we are kind of splitting hairs a bit then. The worst thing about fascism is mostly the autocracy and the “ends justify lots of murder” attitude. When people talk about the evils of fascism that’s what they’re talking about.
Likewise, when people criticize Stalinism, they aren’t talking about the high minded ideals or even the questionable fashion choices. They are talking about the autocracy, and the “ends justify lots of murder” attitude.
I’d argue the USSR was fascist the same way the DPRK is fascist. You aren’t necessarily left-wing just because you say you are.
I can see the parallels but this really conflicts with the historical definition of fascist. Then again, practically everyone is a fascist these days at least according to someone, so maybe the historical definition doesn’t matter anymore. Guess that’s the downside of it being the universally despised bogeyman term in politics.
Thought it might be helpful to compare the USSR to Wikipedia’s definitions of fascism and communism. These definitions can be wrong or could be different than what they were at the height of the USSR, but perhaps it’ll help with finding common definitions. I’ll admit that my knowledge of USSR culture/governance is limited, so feel free to critique/refute any of my interpretations.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Checklist (hidden for brevity)
- +Dictatorial leader: Stalin wasn’t exactly a democratic ruler. Check.
- ?Centralized autocracy: AKA: One person has final say over any government decision. Probably, but maybe not depending on your definition?
- +Militarism: Definitely had a significant military focus. Check.
- +Forcible suppression of opposition: Yeah, that sounds par for the course for modern Russian government.
- ?Belief in natural social hierarchy: Does semi-deliberate wealth disparity and nationalistic superiority complex count?
- ?Subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race: Sounds likely, but not 100% sure.
- +Strong regimentation of society and the economy: Pretty sure the USSR had a planned centralized economy.
It hits 4/7 pretty firmly and the remaining 3 are plausible.
is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology… whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need. A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state.
Checklist (hidden for brevity)
- XCommon ownership of the means of production of goods/services: Weren’t these state-owned?
- XCommon ownership of the means of distribution of goods/services: ^
- XCommon ownership of the means of exchange of goods/services: ^^
- ?Allocates products to everyone in the society based on need: Wasn’t there significant poverty while others’ were well-fed? If distribution wasn’t tied to labor, then it could be argued this fits, if somewhat imperfectly.
- XAbsence of private property: Oligarchs don’t exactly scream “lack of private property”
- XAbsence of social classes: Again, oligarchs and poverty
- ?Absence of money: Can’t comment on this one
- XAbsence of the state: There was 100% an overarching state
Hits 2/8 at best, but I would be surprised to learn there wasn’t money in the USSR.
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If left-wing authoritarianism isn’t an oxymoron, then what the heck does left-wing mean?
I agree that authoritarianism does not equal fascism, but the only meaningful definition of left-right politics (in my opinion) is a measure of belief in and adherence to social hierarchies. And the USSR was definitely heavily into hierarchy.
Why would it be an oxymoron? There is nothing on the political chart or inherent to it to forbid the left wing to be authoritarian.
This is my thinking, let me know if you see any issues with my interpretation:
First line of Wikipedia Left-wing politics: Left-wing politics describes the range of political ideologies that support and seek to achieve social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy as a whole.
First list of Wikiepdia Authoritarianism: Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in the rule of law, separation of powers, and democratic voting.
By these definitions, Left-wing politics should want to evenly distribute power democratically, whereas authoritarianism wants to centralise power in a single entity such as a the military or a dictator.
The perpetual dictatorship of the proletariat in Marxist-Leninism is functionally indifferent from the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The authoritarian leadership just becomes the new bourgeoisie.
All good with the definitions, please share them as much as you want.
My claim is extremely simple, nothing is gonna stop you as a left wing representative to reach those objectives through authoritarian means.
I don’t see how is that hard to understand unless you claim some kind of special position for either side.
In which case, this is not a conversation I’m interested in.
Yeah, that’s where the left-right concept kinda breaks down.
It feels wrong to say the USSR wasn’t left when you consider the many left policies they had and of course their origin.
I also agree with your idea of what left-wing should mean. I guess there’s no way to avoid complexity with topics like this.
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Oh, Mellonhead is definitely a fascist, I’m just pointing out that you get the same kinda of oppression at the other end of the lef-right spectrum, too.
There’s plenty of oppression and violence smack dab in the center of the left right spectrum too. I’m not sure why horseshoe theory is so keen to equate Stalin, Mao, etc. with the violence of Hitler, Pinochet, etc. while ignoring the genocides of the Dutch East India Co. (and competitors), imperialism, the slave trade, settler colonialism, etc.
I’m sure Placebo, a British band, doesn’t give a single dry fuck what this stupid Italian fascist wants to investigate.
Someone is about to learn what “Streisand Effect” means.
You mean racist fascist Giorgio Bologna?
They were in Italy at the time so I suppose they could have caused issues if they went full full fascist.
If I had the money of a lead singer of international band I would consider a €5k fine a “campaign donation” to the other side and go call them fascist and get it in the papers.
So they’re not even pretending to have free speech anymore.
In a lot of ways, the fascism that Italy invented never left. I had hopes 20-30 years ago, but they have been roundly dashed.
XD I’m having a lot of fun reading the clueless comments of people that know nothing about Italy.
It’s understandable that they wouldn’t know much about other countries’ history. Sad… but I get it. Public education is slipping worldwide.
What’s bothered me about discussion online for the last 10-15ish years (and it gets worse every year) is that people feel the urgent need to opine strongly on shit they don’t understand - and that bluntly pointing that out is somehow frowned upon.
I long for the days when it was kosher for everyone to just tell them to shut the fuck up until they were ashamed enough to delete or recant.
/rant
Anyway… Buongiorno!
sad but true
I mean, this was always a crime, it’s not like it’s a new law.
Lol these laws are never enforced
Except when you piss off a fascist, apparently.
Nah not even then
While I seriously wonder what exactly they mean by “far-right”, that law shouldn’t exist
I seriously wonder what exactly they mean by “far-right”
Fascist admirers of Mussolini would usually qualify as far right:
Who is Giorgia Meloni? The rise to power of Italy’s new far-right PM
Thank you. People seriously need to stop acting like words don’t have meaning and it’s impossible for actual fascists to actually exist.
Oh, going by the actual definition of fascism and calling fans of Mussolini fascist? How very fascist of you!
It’s possible they’re getting hung up on the fact that you are using the western, dumbed down Fisher-Price version of the political spectrum where both sides are capitalism.
The actual political plot is a two-dimensional thing. Where left and right is defined by capitalism and socialism only. With a separate axis completely for social issues. Meaning that neo-libertarians, capitalists that favor social democracy, and authoritarians/fascist can all be equally far right. Likewise Authoritarian Leninists, social democracy favoring socialist/communist, true libertarian, and anarchist can all be equally far left. Despite all of them differing wildly on social issues.
Though I definitely could be wrong and they could just be apologizing for fascist. Sometimes it’s hard to tell.
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Nothing is binary. Well outside of binary of course. Sometimes we can loosely quantize stuff in a useful manner with it but that doesn’t make things binary. Human gender and sex is not binary for example.
Being authoritarian does not negate socialism or capitalism. If authoritarian states like China can be socialist. Authoritarian states like the KSA and USA can be capitalist. This is not a hard concept.
Now it would be accurate to qualify that they are authoritarian first and economic system second. When it comes to authoritarian rule priorities are their wealth and power. Everyone and everything else comes second. They can straddle left and right easily. But that does not negate or abolish concepts of capitalism or socialism.
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Because it’s laughably wrong and misguided. By that definition no center can exist. Which is obviously and observably patently wrong in every sense.
Also left is not defined as communism. Left is defined as socialism. Communism especially big C communism or ML is an authoritarian socialist ideology. There are also non authoritarian socialist ideologies. Including other forms of non-state communism. I understand your misconceptions. Believe me as an American and someone raised in the west myself. We are all purposely miseducated on them. But no matter how comfortable it is. It is still incorrect and misinformation.
For example let’s refer to a few of the ideologies that I mentioned before liberalism, Democratic socialist, and social Democrats. Democratic socialist exist and are pretty centrist. By your definition they do not exist. Yet they do exist. Social Democrats are to the left of Democratic socialists. But they are generally against ML communists. Which by your definition makes them not left. But social Democrats are also generally against capitalism. This does not make them fit under your left or right spectrum. This simply marks a gap in your understanding. And nothing more. Because they are solidly socialist. I hope this can help clear up the confusion for you.
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From your article, “Yes to the natural family, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology… no to Islamist violence, yes to secure borders, no to mass migration… no to big international finance… no to the bureaucrats of Brussels!”
So Western European far right,so centrist or even left wing everywhere else.
It also seems shes distanced herself from fascists.
Anti LGBT, white supremacist, antisemitic. She also openly praised Mussolini when she was young and her party used fascist imagery. But when she had a vote of no confidence against her she said she’s not a fascist so it’s all good!
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Seems she just wants closed borders? Am i missing something? Theres a couple articles that claim stuff, but with zero quotes to back it up.
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I think my biggest problem is I don’t speak Italian, and google is not being helpful.
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