The household was fast asleep when the six men broke in. They sought out Sobia Batool Shah, 22, and one of them attacked her with a hatchet, chopping at her limbs in an effort to sever her legs. “He was relentless and must have hit me at least 15 times,” she says.
“I screamed in pain and pleaded with him to stop, but he was like a man possessed,” she adds. “I even told him I will not seek a divorce.”
Shah was attacked by men from her own family – including her father, Syed Mustafa Shah, her uncle and cousins – who broke into the house, in Naushahro Feroze, in Pakistan’s Sindh province, as “punishment” for refusing to withdraw her application to divorce her husband.
Speaking to the Guardian by phone from the Peoples University of Medical and Health Sciences for Women, in the city of Nawabshah, where she is being treated, Shah says she is in “immense pain” and her legs are both in plaster.
Another point for the religion of peace! If you’re part of any organized religion, congratulations - you’re one of the people who enables this batshit behaviour.
This has zilch to do with Islam which allows divorce.
Seems someone forgot to tell muslims? Because they do it in the name of their god, you know?
There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. You really saying that all of them think this is acceptable? Shit like this is because of misogynistic local practices that would happen regardless of Islam.
No, I never said that and I’d prefer you not using strawmen.
My country has a fair share of misogynists as do all other countries. But you don’t see this happening here, because our misogynists don’t think that it’s their god given right and that eternal happiness awaits them if they chop off their daughter’s legs.
That thing is vile and disgusting and I don’t know how many times do you need to see this happening with Islam to maybe think that the religion might not be that great?
Seems someone forgot to tell muslims? Because they do it in the name of their god, you know?
You said that so you can’t argue strawman buddy.
Well, educate me then, because I don’t see the strawman in that statement.
You accused another poster of a strawman argument when there wasn’t one, even tho you yourself are guilty of using strawman arguments (in your comment history).
I don’t understand why we give Islam a pass, a lot of the religion is based on the same barbaric Christian beliefs that we’re all too happy to very rightly call out and shit on. I’d even say the Qur’an is worse than the Christian bible in many ways, given the war heavy times it was written in.
We obviously need to be careful of equating Muslim with brown, and I get that a lot of people are just racist and don’t have a more in-depth understanding of the actual religion. But the religion of Islam itself doesn’t just deserve a free pass because of that
I do not give Islam a pass. But there is nothing in the Quran that advocates for something like this. There is certainly quite a bit of misogyny in the Quran but when it comes to divorce, it is much more open than Christianity and Judaism. A woman can seek Khul’ and have arbitration for a divorce.
Shit like this is local cultural practices that would happen regardless of the area being Islamic or not.
Yes, but there are multiple references to cutting off hands/feet. It’s hardly setting a good example.
We don’t try to excuse Christianity and their god awful abortion takes as local culture
Oh don’t get me wrong, there is a lot of messed up shit in the Quran. It was written by a dude in the 600s. And while it may have been progressive then in comparison to Christianity, it is still pretty messed up by today’s standards. The views on punishment, slavery, and women fail pretty hard from today’s perspective. I am only saying with regards to divorce.
Your abortion example is interesting because the only spot in the Bible that could related to abortion is actually supportive of it. It is prescribed for a possibly unfaithful woman.
As far as things like this being cultural, you see similar shit with honor killings in backwards areas of India that are by Hindus.
I know at least one other spot that mentions abortion in the Bible.
I think you’re taking it too literally, the books have many statements that are contradictory. It’s about the general message. In general, the bible is very pro-children, it has passages where God literally tells people he made them in the womb himself. And funnily enough, modern highly Christian nations have these ideals, and takes them to extremes.
The Qur’an has a lot of violent punishment, which is then in a lot of cases moderated in modern Islamic countries. Saudi Arabia for example, may only cut off one hand for thievery, or none if the crime is light enough. It sets precedent and normalises these actions
Plenty of religious people are non-violent and plenty of non-religious people are. It is indeed one of the easiest routes to radicalise someone to do awful things but also not the only one.
I’m not disagreeing, it’s just that when there’s one thing common among a huge percentage of violent people, maybe you should look into it.
And religion and especially islam is there way too often. If it was up to me, I’d ban all organized religion, starting with islam and christianity following shortly after.
This makes me want to puke, what a fucking world we live in
This is beyond horrific. I think I’m going to unsubscribe from this community. I can’t keep reading stuff like this daily.
This isn’t simply “fundamentalism”. It’s culture. There are religions, less popular ones, in which the fundamentalists aren’t mega assholes. Fundamentalist Jains, for example, are unlikely to do this kind of shit.
The problem here is the World religions combined, somewhat inevitably, with honor culture. Full article: Explaining the rise of moralizing religions: a test of competing hypotheses using the Seshat Databank
You’re right. It essentially boils down to the culture of men … the misogyny that shelters men and places the onus on women to create a world that men can live in comfortably, without temptation, without loss of face.
It’s fucking exhausting.
Most men are cowards it seems
I don’t understand how you can do this to your own daughter.
If anything, a father should be supporting his daughter through divorce.
It’s an extreme version of Objectification: they quiet literally think of women as their possessions and of their feelings as inconsequencial.
Shit like this probably happenned in the West maybe 2 or 3 centuries ago when there were still things like arranged marriages.
livestock
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Pakistanis are not Arabs…
Must have been a dull hatchet LOL ol poor ass mafucka can’t even afford a decent axe. Dowry must have been fat
Well… there goes the last shred of hope I had for sanity in this world…
This is a daily thing in the world in many countries. It’s freaking awful. Honor crime must stop. We need to have education in these countries in school where honor is taught as something else than what it means today.
When religious fanaticism combines with ignorance this is how the men are. They carry iPhones but their morals and ethics haven’t changed in centuries. Pakistan remains a backward shithole.
I wish there were a way to eradicate religious fundamentalism from this world. I have issues with religion in general, but the big problem has always been fundamentalists, unwilling to change and progress and keep up with modern morality.
And to be clear, this is not a condemnation of Islam as a whole. There are lots of more moderate Muslims in the world who, I am sure, are just as horrified by this as I am.
I wish there were a way to eradicate religious fundamentalism from this world.
Mandatory
laicsecular free public education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Ferry_lawsBut how do you get people in fundamentalist-run countries to agree to that?
You pray your private god that there will be a Taliban Gorbachev in a few decades?
Yet you’ll hear none of them condemn this action. There will be no new stories or articles. Nobody will protest. Which indicates tacit acceptance.
Are you protesting? Otherwise, I’m not sure you should be pointing fingers.
I protest the malfeasance committed in my own country whether it be travesties of justice, bad policy, or corruption. In the above case, protests against the subjugation and violence against that woman in the name of religion should come primarily from Pakistani muslim men. The world takes a keen interest in such brazen acts with common news reports on acid attacks and maimings. You know who you never hear from on the subject though?: Muslim men.
So you’ve actively searched the web for every Muslim man who’s on social media to see if they’ve stood up against these brutalities?
Cool. Please post a list so we can verify it.
This is the same “but do you condemn Hamas?” nonsense. If you’re a Muslim, you don’t need to condemn things like this any more than anyone else does. That this is wrong is the default position. I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that this is something most Muslim parents would do to their children or approve of anyone else doing it to their children.
Sorry… you’re saying Muslims should protest religious fundamentalism in a country full of religious fundamentalists?
Because I’m guessing they don’t have any more of a death wish than you do.
There are people protesting in the image from the article…
Notice it’s only women?
There are seven or eight men clearly visible in the photo.
If this is what did it for you, you’re going to hate the entirety of human history.
One would hope humans would get less barbaric over time.
We objectively have
And yet nowhere near enough.
I don’t think we as a species have it in us to not be pieces of shit. Individuals absolutely do, but I’m not very conviced we’ll manage to unfuck our plains ape selves before things go really sideways due to climate change and resource scarcity, and we revert back to a more “natural” state
no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
(yes that’s Hobbes. No I’m not sorry.)
There are always going to be nutters, self-supporting groups of nutters and even entire countries were specific kinds of nuttiness are systematically practiced (generally under the the cover of religion, tradition and/or politics).
That said, I reckon we’re generally improving on these things, even with some sliding back involved (like in the US in the last decade) - Europe too had arranged marriages and other forms of treating women as if they were possessions - and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if similarly horrible things happened to women who refused - until a century or two ago and some of it lasted until the XX century (for example, in my own country of Portugal the 1930 Constitution of the Fascist dictatorship - which was overthrown in 74 - said that married women needed the authorization of their husbands to travel abroad, and in most of Europe and the US women only finally had the same property rights as men in the XX century).
In the social domain things are improving - though not yet perfect - and not just in the West. It’s in the field of general access to the resources people need to survive (i.e. wealth distribution) that things have steadilly been going backwards for the last couple of decades.
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Nothing destroys a family’s honour more than harming their children.
