Looking at just the hosting costs is actually a really bad indicator of total costs. The unpaid volunteer time just to run/manage the instance are likely going to be significantly more than the hosting costs if they were compensated even at minimum wage.
Each of the stacks for XXXiver.se and Bestiver.se (Mastodon + Lemmy + Static Site (+ Linkstack/Wiki for XXXiver.se premium)) are shoved into a Hetzner server at ~$13/month, and backed by R2 Object storage.
My current total hosting costs are ~$30/month to host 2xMastodon, 2xLemmy, 2xStatic Site, 1xLinkstack and 1xWiki. This is basically the minimum cost for me to host all of that on their own infra. I have approximately 0 users other than myself yet, so there’s not really a useful cost/user and I can’t really provide info on scaling.
Unlike most others here I’m seeing if I can make hosting into more of a job by selling the full suite of services to communities (e.g. get your own Mastodon + Lemmy + others) or by up-selling to premium accounts. I highly doubt that it will actually make any useful amount of money but I’m curious enough to try.
I’ve been curious about going alone on the Fedi but I’ve always been concerned about data storage. How much drive space do you think is required? I presume it accumulates over time.
Unlike most others here I’m seeing if I can make hosting into more of a job by selling the full suite of services to communities (e.g. get your own Mastodon + Lemmy + others) or by up-selling to premium accounts. I highly doubt that it will actually make any useful amount of money but I’m curious enough to try.
FYI, there is https://communick.com/ which offers exactly that. The admin is @rglullis@communick.news
I highly doubt that it will actually make any useful amount of money.
Consider yourself lucky if you manage to break even. I am 5 years into this and the Fediverse side of things have been nothing but a money pit. The only thing that is not keeping me completely in the red is the custom Matrix hosting.
6.84€ per month. And that’s 6.84€ per user. But I also run a dozen of other services on that VPS.
Start your own for you. Open registration while keeping an eye on resources. When you hit hardware limits, close registration. Should be easy enough to manage moderation, and resources wouldn’t cost much more than the initial costs of running it just for yourself.
The number of users is not really what drives costs honestly. Or at least, it’s not like a linear relationship. I think actually having many popular communities might be a bigger issue.
On that topic, could limiting the posting of pictures and asking people to use external picture hosts help with that?
Yes, storage costs matters. I think it’s honestly crazy that Lemmy caches images as much as it does. It would be great to be able to just disable it completely, but alas you can’t do that without disabling uploads for your own users either (at least I don’t know how).
Disabling uploads might be an option. You probably just need to announce it to the people beforehand, but I see most of the people using image links from other sites, so that might not be an issue.
It’s a major downside to my own users though. I wish I could disable uploads for everyone else :P
Indeed 😄
Of course it is. More queries = more resources.
Yes, but honestly unless you’re very big, federation queries are the bulk of the processing and stuff from your own instance doesn’t matter that much. I mean think about it, do you think the 100 active users on your own instance is what costs or the 10000 users posting all over the fediverse is what matters? Obviously the latter. So again, local user count is not that impactful.
I have my thinkcentre that I use as main PC on at all times, and it’s basically free in the autumn/winter/early spring as its energy consumption serves as a heater. And orherwise I use it. So say 100 nights uh to be generous 1000h a year for what, 30watt so 30kwh at under 0.2€ equals say 6€.
I’m all alone on the server though so it costs 6€ a year per user I guess 😁
Interesting pattern emerging, the IT time of the admins is pretty damn priceless, (thank you admins!) but when an instance gets up to scale a lot of them can end up with a hard cost of 10 cents per user per month.
The last stat I remember from Facebook was revenue per user per year was around 4 dollars. At 31b revenue and 2.7b monthly users, Youtubes average profit per user is about $10 per user per year. 100 million people pay for YT premium now.
So if every user paid $1 per month, it might not pay all the costs but the admins could get paid something and the fediverse could scale. The bigger you get though, you get economies of scale from future Fediverse data centers, but also you need really good programmers because its a huge temptation for hackers and propagandists.
I also want to say its a labor of love and a lot of work for mods too who may be non technical but the work and time they put in is important.
wired.bluemarch.art runs on the cheapest Hetzner VPS, so €4.18 per month plus yearly domain cost. Right now there is only one active user on this instance so the price for an active user is a bit high, but I don’t really care because I would pay for a VPS even when I don’t run a Lemmy instance on it.
Mastodon is used by me alone and costs ¥1590/month.
Misskey is free with OCI for less than 5 people.
PieFed is ¥491/month.Lemmy is the biggest server in Japan, but I host it at home because it has about 5 MAUs.
(Unfortunately, it is not popular in Japan.)Media is R2, but it is still within the limits of no billing.
¥1590/month.
Rough $11/month in freedom dollars. That’s not bad!
Still pricey for a solo use. What is your use cases? Lurking or a frequent poster?
Yea that seems pretty high. I have a solo pixelfed server that runs around $5 / month. It doesn’t get a lot of use though
I probably post frequently.
File servers and multiple BOTs are also running.
It may be a little expensive, but it is a typical amount of money for a VPS that runs Mastodon somewhat comfortably in Japan.
SAKURA internet VPS※Sorry, I’m using machine translation.
Your machine translation is working well.
Masto admin here. Small instance. 20ish users. costs me about 1€ per user.
Most of the costs comes from media cache storage, so it would scale nicely if I had more users, but I want to keep it small
deleted by creator
Cost per month or year?
month
ive purposefully stood up my instance in a production, scalable environment.
i make my costs public on the https://moist.catsweat.com/faq page.
currently running ~1.60/day = 50$/month…
so far about $0.50/per user/month or $1.25/active user/month which should move downward until i hit resource limits and have to scale infrastructure.
Is the shutdown about cost per user? why not just limit signups in a case like that? I sorta assumed some instances were personal instances with no real signups and some where more open public. I don’t see why someone can’t run something with the intention of carrying like 10 users max or 100 or 1000 or what not.
I think a lot of people start up a server because at the time it fits with what they want to do. Once you realize this is not a job (correct description) you wanted to take on it becomes much harder to motivate it.
As soon as you run a server for others outside of the immediate friends/family circle it can be really difficult to deal with the expectations of uptime and service. Also, some don’t want to ask for help but also take on all the moderation themselves too.
how much can someone limit the instance? Like can they not allow magazine creation? It would be good for the good folks who run instances to think about scope and set limits. That does mean some large instances will be the backbone but that does not change that small instances will lighten the load and increase robustness.
It’s possible to turn off local community creation, image uploads, etc.
Lemmy.myserv.one doesn’t host any local content but you can easily browse the rest of the fediverse. Having a diversity of server sizes and formats is definitely a benefit of Lemmy that we should be trying to take advantage of.
Here’s the stats for mastodon.world and Lemmy.world
(And a few other fediverse sites)
https://blog.mastodon.world/blog-post-for-august-2024-and-july
Thanks, I remember seeing it some time ago, but it’s a bit hard to really identify how much the Lemmy instance exactly costs
From the comments I see, feddit.uk seems to have the lowest unit costs with 11 pennce.
Worth also noting that:
- We are currently only using about 1/4 of the resources, so people could trim the cost further (although being over specced helps a lot when there are spikes in activity and it will mean we don’t have to upgrade any time soon).
- Our hosting costs are more that fully covered by around 20 people donating and that should scale with growth (although possibly not in a truly linear way). We also have a decent “warchest” which should see us through most temporary problems.
One reason we break the finances down is because we are a medium-sized instance and we want to demonstrate that it is perfectly possible to run one supported by donations.
If anyone has any questions they are welcome to message me or they can drop it into the monthly financial report (the new one will be next week).
Reminds me of Mary Poppins
About $50 monthly for server, backups, image hosting, mails etc.
We run on the cheapest Hetzner VPS we can, which is about $8 USD/month. Pictrs are on cloudflare R2. Pictrs storage hovers around 14GB and we have yet to get a non-zero invoice.
Our active users are super low (I think). I don’t think the lemmy interface tells you the number of active users for in instance, just for communities, but since it’s a niche instance I can safely say it’s around 10 people.
So that’s a little less than a dollar per month per user. On the existing VPS I think we could safely add a bunch of users without needing to upgrade.
I don’t think the lemmy interface tells you the number of active users for in instance
I think what you see on the main page (at the bottom right, just below the instance description/rules) is the instance’s specific stats.
Oh that’s cool. I was right, only 9 monthly users.
@seb@ioc.exchange publishes the costs for ioc.exchange:
Servers are hosted at Linode and hosting costs are around $300/month. Media files are hosted in AWS S3 and the costs are around $50/month. So in total our running costs are about $350/month.
Unfortunately the donations still don’t cover it.
This is your regular reminder that our hosting costs are roughly $350 per month. In the last 30 days you all have contributed $216. Thank you very much for everyone who has contributed - You are awesome!
edit: User numbers from fedidb: 1,737 MAU, 26,315 total.
5 bucks per month per active user sounds excessively expensive, no?
Yeah I think you got the numbers crossed there :D
Shit. I’m gonna turn my alarm off and get some proper sleep the next days…
