It gives me confidence. I know that now that I host my own lemmy, I cannot be randomly banned because I triggered some automatic spam filter with my scripts (happened in reddit), or banned because I talked back to the wrong mod. I know that our internationally distributed nature makes it harder to control top-down, so takeovers like Musk-Xitter are not possible. We can still be affected by disinfo campaigns and troll farms, and we unfortunately have weakened defenses against that, but I’m confident that a lot of smart admins and tooling providers will bunch together to figure out the countermeasures that will work.
oh snap, db0 the person! Love your instance.
Yeah, being banned because a mod didn’t like you was the worst thing on Reddit. Especially if they modded multiple subs and banned you from a subreddit you never even came close to breaking the rules on. Some Reddit mods were just assholes.
How expensive is it to host your own instance? Assuming you aren’t doing it in house.
About 5-20 eur/month should be enough for most instance admins, depending on their provider.
Which do you use?
My setup is quite complex and I have 1000+ MAU so we’re not a small instance anymore. That said we use hetzner, ovh, and mailgun. Our hosting hosts are more than 100 per month but I could probably be running a bit cheaper if I wanted, but this way we have easy growing space.
That’s much more expensive than I would imagine! Hope you are fully funded. You’re the best instance.
Yes, currently the monthly donations exceed our hosting costs!
I’m curious about this too
Frankly, it’s stressing me out. The non-stop barrage of Trump, Musk and other bullshit is just a bit too much on here. I get how the platform generally is very left leaning, but it really does feel like the sky is falling every five minutes, you know?
@FinishingDutch@lemmy.world
@moseschrute@lemmy.world sometimes it takes letting it play out for people to remember the leason that history could have thaught them. Do your best now to prepare for some tough times. If you own your home outright, get that basement ready for a renter. If you’ve already leveraged 80% of your home, get out from under that NOW and look for a basement to rent.
Read some Steinbeck. Watch Idocracy. Strike up a conversation with the oldest people you cross paths with about what they remember their parents telling them about the great depression. It’s going to suck, but when someone can convince this many Americans to vote against their own interests their is a more fundamental problem.
I personally take a little joy from the interveiws with people laid off who didn’t realize the company they worked for was producing products for federally subsidized clean energy initiatives.
Yes. The fediverse is a pretty difficult thing to be controlled by a single group: that’s sorta the idea. I see it as almost a refuge from all the bullshit. The lack of ads, tracking, content farming, censorship and control etc is refreshing. Here’s to hoping the fediverse continues to spread.
There’s plenty of censorship here though. Some instances are worse than others but even on a community basis, your average moderator is just some random dude who is free to remove your posts/comments and ban you just because they don’t like something you said and there’s not really anything you can do about it.
Not all moderation = censorship 🙄 You play by the rules or you face the consequences. Nowhere on the planet are the consequence-free zones - at least not forever.
If you really want fediverse instance where absolutely everything is permitted, make it. I bet you after the first CP post you’ll rethink your stand on “all moderation = censorship”.
Yeah but there are a few notorious large instances that censor things that aren’t stated in their rules at all.
Like criticising china or russia will get you banned from the ML instances but their rules don’t mention that.
Oh yeah, for sure(I blocked the lemmy.ml and lemmygrad instance). But there is a difference between censorship and moderation.
But the point is, you have freedom to choose whatever instance and thus whatever level of moderation you want. I’m not saying censorship is impossible here, that’s just not the argument. The thing is, you aren’t locked in to the control of a specific group/owner/company. If you don’t like the way things are being run, skip to somewhere else, or alternatively make your own instance.
For people who value freedom the most, you can choose a platform with less moderation, and thereby accepting the risks that come with it. For people who value a more safe, stable and curated platform, choose one with more/stricter moderation.
You only have the freedom to choose if you have the freedom to be fully informed. If the instance you are on has “unofficial” rules they enforce, and they remove any comments of anyone discussing those “unofficial” rules. Then it is not moderation — but censorship.
Yeah, I can totally see how that could be an issue. You’re right, my bad. Just wondering if there is any way to truly beat censorship if this is the case?
The decentralisation of the fediverse works well.
Ie. taking my previous example of lemmy.ml censoring any criticism of Russian and Chinese imperialism, under instance rule 1 which is basically “no bigotry”.
Well I’m not on lemmy.ml, and if I talk about it in non-lemmy.ml communities, lemmy.ml admins probably won’t bother banning me — that would be too much effort, so if a lemmy.ml user ventures to communities on other instances, they can learn about this censorship.
(sidenote: I wonder if !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works is blocked by ML admins, afaik it isn’t)
That’s quite the number of assumptions you made there
Not all moderation = censorship
It is, by definition.
Let’s not argue semantics and argue realistic uses of moderation.
If you don’t want to argue about it then don’t bring it up.
Lmao are you censoring me, telling me not to bring it up? Weak.
I told you not to bring it up because you said you didn’t want to argue about it. Censorship would be if I removed your comment.
Do paste the definitions and sources here.
Help yourself.
No thank you. I’m not going to waste my time to try and find your made up definition of censorship.
Yeah I didn’t think so. God forbid you actually learn something. Ignorance is bliss, I suppose.
the Fediverse really seems like it could be our response to these fuckers controlling the narrative on social media. It could be more than just an interesting decentralized social media platform. I really think this could be a key step in reclaiming our democracy.
Agreed, and I would add that finding ways to get nonprofit news organizations (e.g. ProPublica) and public media (e.g. NPR, PBS, etc.) to host and administer their own instances and to start directing their readers/listeners to those services would be a great way to advance this goal
I like Fediverse because I get much better engagement with people here than anything else
It feels much more social being here not despite the smaller audience, but because of it.
People have time to respond to me if I have a question, and I have time to give really good and complete responses to anyone that asks me about something I post.
I made a post about a blender project I am working on from my Mastodon and tagged the Lemmy community. This project is pretty dear to my heart, and I wanted it to be seen by many people, so I made the same post on Reddit.
I got 35 stars on Mastodon + 80 upvotes on Lemmy + many cool comments.
I got literally no upvotes on Reddit. maybe skill issue on my side but the Fediverse is, in my general experience, so much better when it comes to engagement.
It’s cause no one on Reddit goes past r/hot on their sorts. If it isn’t found by people in New and given an initial boost, it dies there. Plenty of stuff has died with 3 up votes while a repost that has a bot farm behind it hits r/all every other week. Reddit now is a feed people scroll with no interaction; bots with an agenda and a select few users interact with stuff.
Using the Fediverse feels like a small step in the right direction. Big changes are built on lots of small steps. I would say move in the direction of using the Fediverse more, the old alternatives less, and think of more small steps in the right direction you can do. I don’t think just using the Fediverse is enough, but it is an important step to take. Keep going.
I agree! Another small step - though I do enjoy the like-minded crowd - would be to get some different perspectives here. Even if I don’t necessarily agree with all those ideas, I don’t think it’s healthy for my own ideas to be trapped in an echo chamber.
Corporations might accidentally help if they try to make their own instancss, like if you sign up with google to join the fediverse, realize most instances block googles because its corporate, then they make an account at non corporate version.
I think the best way for it to grow would be making it easy to self host, yunohost maes it pretty easy, but more managed hosting options competing or more of the big ones offering it would go a long way.
Its nice as a place to talk to mostly like-minded people and avoid the increasingly common AI bot slop, but it is too spread out internationally to be a useful communication tool for organizing local activities, which is a bit sad.
It could grow into something that could be used to organize locally! But for now, I think the goal should be information and comments shared on our terms, not on big social media’s terms.
Yep. I think that we’re on the precipice of what’s to come.
I’m not in the US (thinking of you guys everyday), but when I found myself feeling depressed by the direction of big tech, I realized that open-source and the Fediverse was the healthy and exciting way forwards. It was the one thing that felt like I remember the internet feeling like in the late 90s. I think you are spot on. It is the only way that democracy can survive in tech.
I think that’s what I’m feeling actually. Technology stopped being fun, and although I’m too young for tech in the 90s, Fediverse and open source do make me enjoy tech again!
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I don’t think you’re dramatic.
For me it’s about reclaiming my right to participate in online discourse on my own terms. In a way the fediverse is freedom.
I plan on trying to self host a mastodon instance for myself and rebuild my blogs.
I don’t think I’d ever want to self host a lemmy, I like being anonymous to a reasonable degree. But I like that lemmy lets me have a voice without acquiescence to reddits enshittification.
Also the community is largely great. I love the memes, I love the comments and discussions, and I like that I learn things from fellow internet users again.
The Fediverse and open source world do give me hope. But my worry is seeing people not adopt them. I know they aren’t pertect but compared to the big tech alternatives they’re a no oasis.
The response is to tune-in, turn-on, and drop-out.
Start making things from scratch. Stop buying shit.
Opt-out.
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I also hope it stays not monitored, though I would happily pay $1/month to support running costs.
Specially for those of us who aren’t from the USA, there’s basically no content other than their news, a couple different hobby communities and the sellers from nsfw.
Agreed. This is the most cynical corner of the internet I’ve ever been to, yet here I’m.
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Reddit is more diverse. The same kind of cynicism exists there too but it’s dilluted by all the other content so it’s easier to ignore. Here that is less the case as majority of the content is news articles - granted that I haven’t been to reddit for over a year so I don’t know what it’s like today.
It depends how you use these platforms. On reddit, I go to a few somewhat niche subs (via a direct bookmark link) so I don’t see any content outside of those specific niches.
On lemmy, I use this account for news/global politics, but I also have an alt where I only access content from subscribed communities and there is minimal politics.
For me it does. I’m really enjoying Lemmy, and have curated a bunch of communities that I follow and participate in in a way that feels helpful, hopeful, and not toxic.
