Your lack of social understanding is showing through. Maybe if you lived in any of the countries you disparage all day long (or just did something useful and constructive with your life besides troll farming), you might understand that “dude” is gender neutral these days. But sure, I’m sorry if my usage of “dude” really exacted a heavy load of social injustice upon you.
I’ve already explained in this thread that on the mobile client (both Memmy and Wefwef), pronouns are not displayed. After this comment, I had to log on to desktop just to see what everyone was on about.
I’m here to confirm that it was a proverbial use of “dude”, like you might see used in movies such as The Big Labowski, The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or Good Burger. It is pretty well established in the west that dude is used for about anyone.
I understand now that this might not be the case everywhere and I am truly sorry for any misunderstanding related to gender that I have caused here.
Maybe if you lived in any of the countries you disparage all day long
Most of the users on Hexbear are American and a decent number of the remainder are Brits and Aussies. Our criticisms do not come from having never received the privilege of witnessing these countries being shit first-hand, as much as you might like to pretend it’s only those dirty foreigners not understanding your national glory.
I was continuing the train of thought that they are a troll farm employee, like I’ve spelled out in the other half dozen comments on this post. Their objective is literally to derail and misinform other countries that 90% of them have never visited, such great people, these troll farm employees.
Now, remind me again, where exactly did I say dirty foreigners? Oh. Just like a troll farmer, you always double-down on calling someone else racist when you’re losing the argument. Gotta have that re-direction.
So the foreigner part is self-evident, and I think the “second-world”, “potato vodka,” etc. covers the “dirty” pretty plainly. I don’t know why I’m even saying this, because basically what I’m doing is just teaching you to dogwhistle more effectively, but on the other hand this post is on lemmy, so hopefully I’m helping to point this out to other people so they will be more aware of these things when you and your ilk take your next crack at it.
Funny, I’ve kept my sights specifically on the troll farmers. You seem to be the one trying to leverage it into racism as some kind of ad hominem towards me. It’s fine, I understand you can’t keep up your focus on the losing argument at hand, so you have to redirect.
I don’t know a single trans person that views dude as a gender neutral term, the only people spouting that nonsense are transphobic cis dudes like you who make up excuses to misgender and harass us. Go die in a house fire, reactionary cissie shit.
Real talk from a very trans-supportive communist: is this universal? I definitely grew up in a conservative environment but definitely was under the impression that I and the trans people I am close to all thought dude was a term of endearment when used amongst friends, including women and enbys. I likely overuse the term from thinking I would be a skater after playing Tony hawk’s pro skater and being into hiking/climbing/camping culture, but is this a universal thing among trans people you know?
Not defending the other person, libs very often hide behind the argument once called out, and I’d never call you “dude,” or pretty much anyone not my direct friend, but I just wanna make sure I’m not hurting people unnecessarily without knowing it. Maybe it’s the “being friends” part that makes the difference, and I hope so. Otherwise I got some trans-comrades to apologize to
Adding here after thinking more, I guess I usually use it to refer to a non-specific thing, like saying “ah dude, that’s cool” and shit like that. Like saying “oh man.” Is this related??? Need some help here lol
Real talk from a very trans-supportive communist: is this universal?
I find it to be at least extremely common, both in English-speaking spaces online and in German-speaking trans communities online and IRL (i’m German). Ultimately it’s a matter of preference, there will be trans people who disagree, but there definitely are a lot of us who take offense. Same goes for terms like guy and especially for bro / bruh etc., or for German terms like Typ or Alter (in this context roughly comparable to guy or dude) which are generally at least masc-leaning. I’d definitely take offense to all of these, but sure, there are exceptions.
Still, these are exceptions, and more importantly, what we see here is a perfect example of how not to deal with such a situation: When somebody calls you out on misgendering, the only sensible response is to edit the post in question and to apologize. If you do that, it’s normally no big deal, everybody moves on with their day. And it takes a few seconds to edit a post and a few more to reply “sorry, i’ve edited this” while it can quickly take hours to start an argument over this. Yet i see over and over again that liberals in particular are incapable of showing that amount of basic human decency. Instead, they have to assert their privilege to define what we’re allowed to find offensive, talk down to us and act as if they’re the one ones who’ve been hurt because we’ve called their feeling of superiority and infallibility into doubt by saying they’ve made a mistake. That’s where it gets transphobic even if the misgendering was unintentional, that’s where it gets patronizing as well.
Fully agree with the description. Fuck that lib. Keep tearing them apart til they apologize and edit.
In Dutch-speaking communities i still hear the American phrases a lot, but the equivalents in dutch rarely. But in international groups oriented towards my hobbies, dude is still used a good bit. But I’ll just stay alert, just wanted to hear a bit more from a trans-comrade who most definitely would speak frankly to me (I understand that in-person call-outs can sometimes be difficult for such “small” things). Gonna only use it as a phrase of exclamation among friends that know me well I think and continue checking up regularly on my comrades.
Just to be clear, i’m not saying “don’t say dude”, the term in itself is perfectly fine. Just saying it’s not unusual at all that trans people find it not to be gender neutral and particularly that the response in that case shouldn’t be to start an argument where you assert a right to label trans people in ways that have clearly and already hurt them. It’s the latter that made me go from “oof, that person should edit this post” to “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds”.
Go fucking fuck yourself you fucking piece of shit. Talking about other people’s sOcIaL uNdeRsTandIng while you’re fucking misgendering people AND JUSTIFYING IT AS IF YOU’RE A FUCKING VICTIM once you’re called on it. You’re rancid scum and I hope we get fucking defederated so we don’t have to deal with filth like you.
I have to smash through the wall like Hbomberguy right now
“DO YOU FUCK DUDES? AnomalousBit?”
Do you go around telling other people that you fuck dudes? What do other people assume you mean when you say that you fuck dudes?
You could have just been like “Yeah you’re right, sorry I didn’t mean to misgender you.” but instead you doubled down on being a transphobic dickhead and literally proved my point about liberals being shitbags.
No, it wouldn’t be a problem if he said he fucked dudes. The implication though is that “dudes” is a gendered term. The complaint is that she was misgendered by someone who then doubled down on the misgendering. Her statement was not homophobic.
No, it wouldn’t be a problem if he said he fucked dudes.
I know it wouldn’t be, but making the argument that “you don’t want to accidentally sound like you’re gay” is not the counter argument you might think it is, which is why I was asking her about her intent with that.
I didn’t disagree with that, in fact I agree with her response in that regard as I’ve written.
If that specific argument came from anyone but a hexbear user I would’ve thought some pretty unkind things about the person on the other end, as of now I just think it’s an accidental comment that wasn’t intended, but I can’t not point it out as it’s the exact language that would be used to scare the gays back into the closet when I was in school. “Oh you better not do that, you might look gay”, one I’m all too familiar with.
There were plenty of other analogies that didn’t involve gay, or fucking men as an apparent negative thing
In my experience, sexual inferences are the fastest way to educate someone who doesn’t see a word as being gendered, but I can see how what they said could be read as using gay sexual activity in a negative way to someone not reading this thread and skimmed over the rest of the text in that reply.
Playing dumb is used by bigots as a shield to continue their bigotry unimpeded. Not allowing any room for them to play dumb is the only way to reach those kind of people.
Playing dumb is used by bigots as a shield to continue their bigotry unimpeded. Not allowing any room for them to play dumb is the only way to reach those kind of people.
I’m aware, I’m on her side in this matter to be clear. She’s right to call out “dude”, and in fact it’s a disrespectful term anyway to say to non-friends.
Personally I try to use ungendered terms as much as possible online, and will call out weird assumptions on gender as well. English at least has it great on that front as using genders is a choice in that language (unlike some other European languages I know…).
Though it’s neat you all have the pronouns in the user, and I will of course use the pronouns when available/known.
I agree with that, she clearly isn’t, as her pronouns clearly indicate. I’ve made that pretty clear in my first comment as well, I guess you missed it. That’s not what I’m talking about however.
My comment is about using “fucking dudes” as a negative example, I’d have preferred if a different example would be used rather than scaring the straight (I assume he is) their possible internal homophobia to realise dude is a gendered term. As there is nothing wrong with fucking a dude, he could be fully okay with that, and that would be fine.
As the poster’s pronouns are close to her heart, my sexuality is also close to mine, and fighting negative connotations surrounding that is something I can’t stop doing, I do hope you see that.
What they are conveying is that “dude” is clearly not a gender-neutral term, as a straight guy would agree that they “fuck people”, weird as the phrasing is, but not that they “fuck dudes.” It demonstrates that they themselves don’t perceive the social understanding of the term “dude” as gender neutral, not that “fucking dudes” is bad. It could also be used to debate a lesbian by the same token.
I agree with her that dude is gendered (and generally disrespectful to say to non-friends anyway).
But it’s clear we disagree on the examples’ connotaton. I can’t really make it more clear that I think there’s a negative connotation to the example used, I can’t however force you to accept that. At the risk of looping the comments perpetually I will wish you the best with this one and leave it at that.
To be clear, I don’t think she had any malice in mind when using that argument, just that I wished a different example would be used than scaring the (assumed) straight guy with “do you fuck a dude?”, as if he was gay and said yes, that would’ve been a fine answer, but not really have an impact (gays can still be transphobic/against pronouns, those idiots exist sadly).
Your lack of social understanding is showing through. Maybe if you lived in any of the countries you disparage all day long (or just did something useful and constructive with your life besides troll farming), you might understand that “dude” is gender neutral these days. But sure, I’m sorry if my usage of “dude” really exacted a heavy load of social injustice upon you.
“Dude” can be gender neutral but given the context of it in your response it really fucking looks like a microaggression against her for being trans
I’ve already explained in this thread that on the mobile client (both Memmy and Wefwef), pronouns are not displayed. After this comment, I had to log on to desktop just to see what everyone was on about.
I’m here to confirm that it was a proverbial use of “dude”, like you might see used in movies such as The Big Labowski, The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or Good Burger. It is pretty well established in the west that dude is used for about anyone.
I understand now that this might not be the case everywhere and I am truly sorry for any misunderstanding related to gender that I have caused here.
Do custom names not show in Memmy/Wefwef? It was part of her display name.
They do not show on either app.
I live in the US and disparage it all day. That’s productive.
You forgot to switch your troll account back to Awoo, hilarious.
Most of the users on Hexbear are American and a decent number of the remainder are Brits and Aussies. Our criticisms do not come from having never received the privilege of witnessing these countries being shit first-hand, as much as you might like to pretend it’s only those dirty foreigners not understanding your national glory.
I was continuing the train of thought that they are a troll farm employee, like I’ve spelled out in the other half dozen comments on this post. Their objective is literally to derail and misinform other countries that 90% of them have never visited, such great people, these troll farm employees.
Now, remind me again, where exactly did I say dirty foreigners? Oh. Just like a troll farmer, you always double-down on calling someone else racist when you’re losing the argument. Gotta have that re-direction.
Yeah, we get it, you’re a paranoid national chauvinist on top of being a transphobic asshole, that was already obvious.
So the foreigner part is self-evident, and I think the “second-world”, “potato vodka,” etc. covers the “dirty” pretty plainly. I don’t know why I’m even saying this, because basically what I’m doing is just teaching you to dogwhistle more effectively, but on the other hand this post is on lemmy, so hopefully I’m helping to point this out to other people so they will be more aware of these things when you and your ilk take your next crack at it.
Funny, I’ve kept my sights specifically on the troll farmers. You seem to be the one trying to leverage it into racism as some kind of ad hominem towards me. It’s fine, I understand you can’t keep up your focus on the losing argument at hand, so you have to redirect.
You also call them troll farmers, but the racial coding just keeps finding its way in somehow. Funny, that.
She literally has her pronouns in her display name mf, it’s not that hard
I was on mobile and the client I use does not show that. I had literally no clue as to the gender, nouns or anything other the user’s name was “Awoo”.
https://youtu.be/h2TL0GHSue0
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/h2TL0GHSue0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I don’t know a single trans person that views dude as a gender neutral term, the only people spouting that nonsense are transphobic cis dudes like you who make up excuses to misgender and harass us. Go die in a house fire, reactionary cissie shit.
Literally 14 years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqMODweN8lQ
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=FqMODweN8lQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Yeah, people weren’t aware of transphobic language 14 years ago, i know that, i’ve lived through that time.
Real talk from a very trans-supportive communist: is this universal? I definitely grew up in a conservative environment but definitely was under the impression that I and the trans people I am close to all thought dude was a term of endearment when used amongst friends, including women and enbys. I likely overuse the term from thinking I would be a skater after playing Tony hawk’s pro skater and being into hiking/climbing/camping culture, but is this a universal thing among trans people you know?
Not defending the other person, libs very often hide behind the argument once called out, and I’d never call you “dude,” or pretty much anyone not my direct friend, but I just wanna make sure I’m not hurting people unnecessarily without knowing it. Maybe it’s the “being friends” part that makes the difference, and I hope so. Otherwise I got some trans-comrades to apologize to
Adding here after thinking more, I guess I usually use it to refer to a non-specific thing, like saying “ah dude, that’s cool” and shit like that. Like saying “oh man.” Is this related??? Need some help here lol
I find it to be at least extremely common, both in English-speaking spaces online and in German-speaking trans communities online and IRL (i’m German). Ultimately it’s a matter of preference, there will be trans people who disagree, but there definitely are a lot of us who take offense. Same goes for terms like guy and especially for bro / bruh etc., or for German terms like Typ or Alter (in this context roughly comparable to guy or dude) which are generally at least masc-leaning. I’d definitely take offense to all of these, but sure, there are exceptions.
Still, these are exceptions, and more importantly, what we see here is a perfect example of how not to deal with such a situation: When somebody calls you out on misgendering, the only sensible response is to edit the post in question and to apologize. If you do that, it’s normally no big deal, everybody moves on with their day. And it takes a few seconds to edit a post and a few more to reply “sorry, i’ve edited this” while it can quickly take hours to start an argument over this. Yet i see over and over again that liberals in particular are incapable of showing that amount of basic human decency. Instead, they have to assert their privilege to define what we’re allowed to find offensive, talk down to us and act as if they’re the one ones who’ve been hurt because we’ve called their feeling of superiority and infallibility into doubt by saying they’ve made a mistake. That’s where it gets transphobic even if the misgendering was unintentional, that’s where it gets patronizing as well.
Fully agree with the description. Fuck that lib. Keep tearing them apart til they apologize and edit.
In Dutch-speaking communities i still hear the American phrases a lot, but the equivalents in dutch rarely. But in international groups oriented towards my hobbies, dude is still used a good bit. But I’ll just stay alert, just wanted to hear a bit more from a trans-comrade who most definitely would speak frankly to me (I understand that in-person call-outs can sometimes be difficult for such “small” things). Gonna only use it as a phrase of exclamation among friends that know me well I think and continue checking up regularly on my comrades.
Just to be clear, i’m not saying “don’t say dude”, the term in itself is perfectly fine. Just saying it’s not unusual at all that trans people find it not to be gender neutral and particularly that the response in that case shouldn’t be to start an argument where you assert a right to label trans people in ways that have clearly and already hurt them. It’s the latter that made me go from “oof, that person should edit this post” to “scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds”.
Go fucking fuck yourself you fucking piece of shit. Talking about other people’s sOcIaL uNdeRsTandIng while you’re fucking misgendering people AND JUSTIFYING IT AS IF YOU’RE A FUCKING VICTIM once you’re called on it. You’re rancid scum and I hope we get fucking defederated so we don’t have to deal with filth like you.
My lack of social understanding? Gender neutral?
I have to smash through the wall like Hbomberguy right now
Do you go around telling other people that you fuck dudes? What do other people assume you mean when you say that you fuck dudes?
You could have just been like “Yeah you’re right, sorry I didn’t mean to misgender you.” but instead you doubled down on being a transphobic dickhead and literally proved my point about liberals being shitbags.
Would it be a problem if he went around and said he fucked dudes?
I’m confused, are you using gays as an insult here? That’s messed up if so, so I hope that’s not what you meant.
I do agree on your comment about the usage of wrong pronouns though, you shouldn’t have had that happen.
No, it wouldn’t be a problem if he said he fucked dudes. The implication though is that “dudes” is a gendered term. The complaint is that she was misgendered by someone who then doubled down on the misgendering. Her statement was not homophobic.
I know it wouldn’t be, but making the argument that “you don’t want to accidentally sound like you’re gay” is not the counter argument you might think it is, which is why I was asking her about her intent with that.
The only argument she’s making is that dudes is a gendered term, and him doubling down after the fact is bullshit
I didn’t disagree with that, in fact I agree with her response in that regard as I’ve written.
If that specific argument came from anyone but a hexbear user I would’ve thought some pretty unkind things about the person on the other end, as of now I just think it’s an accidental comment that wasn’t intended, but I can’t not point it out as it’s the exact language that would be used to scare the gays back into the closet when I was in school. “Oh you better not do that, you might look gay”, one I’m all too familiar with.
There were plenty of other analogies that didn’t involve gay, or fucking men as an apparent negative thing
In my experience, sexual inferences are the fastest way to educate someone who doesn’t see a word as being gendered, but I can see how what they said could be read as using gay sexual activity in a negative way to someone not reading this thread and skimmed over the rest of the text in that reply.
Playing dumb is used by bigots as a shield to continue their bigotry unimpeded. Not allowing any room for them to play dumb is the only way to reach those kind of people.
I’m aware, I’m on her side in this matter to be clear. She’s right to call out “dude”, and in fact it’s a disrespectful term anyway to say to non-friends.
Personally I try to use ungendered terms as much as possible online, and will call out weird assumptions on gender as well. English at least has it great on that front as using genders is a choice in that language (unlike some other European languages I know…).
Though it’s neat you all have the pronouns in the user, and I will of course use the pronouns when available/known.
What she is saying is that she is not a dude
I agree with that, she clearly isn’t, as her pronouns clearly indicate. I’ve made that pretty clear in my first comment as well, I guess you missed it. That’s not what I’m talking about however.
My comment is about using “fucking dudes” as a negative example, I’d have preferred if a different example would be used rather than scaring the straight (I assume he is) their possible internal homophobia to realise dude is a gendered term. As there is nothing wrong with fucking a dude, he could be fully okay with that, and that would be fine.
As the poster’s pronouns are close to her heart, my sexuality is also close to mine, and fighting negative connotations surrounding that is something I can’t stop doing, I do hope you see that.
What they are conveying is that “dude” is clearly not a gender-neutral term, as a straight guy would agree that they “fuck people”, weird as the phrasing is, but not that they “fuck dudes.” It demonstrates that they themselves don’t perceive the social understanding of the term “dude” as gender neutral, not that “fucking dudes” is bad. It could also be used to debate a lesbian by the same token.
I agree with her that dude is gendered (and generally disrespectful to say to non-friends anyway).
But it’s clear we disagree on the examples’ connotaton. I can’t really make it more clear that I think there’s a negative connotation to the example used, I can’t however force you to accept that. At the risk of looping the comments perpetually I will wish you the best with this one and leave it at that.
To be clear, I don’t think she had any malice in mind when using that argument, just that I wished a different example would be used than scaring the (assumed) straight guy with “do you fuck a dude?”, as if he was gay and said yes, that would’ve been a fine answer, but not really have an impact (gays can still be transphobic/against pronouns, those idiots exist sadly).