• Shadywack@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I’m seeing a disturbing amount of focus on what the IDF is doing, when I agree with your take on this. “But they do it too” is absurd. I heard one thing on NPR this morning from someone who has been part of previous peace talks, and his stance that the American response being “We stand with Israel” is awful for resolving the conflict. Palestinians lack security and means, which is what pushed them to violence. Israel’s response with more violence is going to be like putting gasoline on the fire.

      Hamas isn’t doing itself any favors, and having gone after a rave party with a bunch of youth, many of which support peaceful resolution and coexistence, is batshit crazy. The IDF going for body count with Hamas using human shields is also making this worse. Israel has a vast military superiority, and Palestinians stand no chance of an up front fight. Picking sides is choosing evil itself here.

    • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      1 year ago

      You’re misinterpreting what I’m saying. I’m not saying that murdering or raping random women is okay. What I am saying is that Palestinians are being denied basic human rights and freedoms by Israel, and are being confined to mass camps and subject to routine state execution without trial. Men women children and the elderly have all been murdered in cold blood by Israel. Every week, every month, every year for the last 70 years Israel has been indiscriminately murdering Palestinians for every reason under the sun. Not murdering Hamas terrorists, murdering literal children. Children who are being forced to grow up behind concrete walls by people of a different race and culture to them. Children who are being told they’re worth less than Israeli children. Children who watch on live TV as their families, their communities, their culture itself is subject to indiscriminate violence and repression by a militarized regime that had the support of the largest nations in the world.

      Netanyahu said on TV he will “turn Gaza into a desert island”. Netanyahu has openly encouraged Israeli settlers to displace Palestinians from their homes. He has openly said that Palestinians cannot have equal rights because their culture would “tarnish Israel”. Hes openly a despicable disgusting racist and he has been calling for genocide from the instant hamas attacked. Genocide is NEVER justified there is NO JUSTIFICATION for MASS MURDER. And yet we have joe biden live to the entire world saying he will supply Israel with the arms to do it.

      My response is not “well they do it too”, my response is that there is NO COMPARISON here. Israel is an apartheid state where Palestinians are LEGALLY SUBHUMAN. Palestinians do not have a modern military, they do not have a global support network of hyper militarized predominately white capitalist states funding and arming them. They have no power over Israel, and no power within it either. Their only recourse is violence, the only people who can offer them any hope are violent extremists. The path to diplomacy has been closed since the mid 90s, when America and Israel slammed the door on Palestine and declared that they had no intentions to ever peacefully resolve the situation. Israel has continued their oppression and subjugation of the people of Palestine over the last 30 years. Just this year they’ve murdered over 40 children in cold fucking blood. They have AI controlled machine guns mounted on the walls of Gaza. There is absolutely no comparison here.

        • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          1 year ago

          Note that you have not at all commented on the legal discrimination against Palestinians. The fact that they are pushed into concentration camps. The continued violence they are subjected to every single day for their entire lives. The actions of a few on one fucking day of the year do not justify the last 70 years of violence committed against Palestinians.

          I never said that the women who were raped and murdered deserved it, or that it was justified in any way. It wasn’t. I’m a rape survivor. The actions taken on these innocent women are unforgivable.

          What I am saying is Israel’s response to it, that being calling for the genocide of Palestinian is not justified.

            • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              You are being disingenuous to equate the actions of Palestinians with the actions of the Israeli state. You either have no idea what the history of this region is, what the state of affairs was prior to this most recent attack, or intentionally dismissing the way that Israel has deprived Palestinians of their human rights and freedoms for the last 70 years.

              Palestine COULD NOT genocide Isreal, they have no actual power over the Israeli government, they do not have a modernized military funded by the united states. The Israeli state COULD and OPENLY CALLS for genocide of palestinians. On top of years of mass murdering palestinians and increasingly robbing them of their homes their rights and their safety. They are forced to live in what is essentially a fucking mass gheto and are denied the ability to leave it.

              Palestine is not a state, there is no state of Palestine - largely because Israel would never allow one to exist. Palestinians are not a monolith, the actions of some people who are palestinian do not reflect upon all other palestinians. They are a minority ethnic group who are legally deprived of their rights. To even try and say something like “Palestine is not innocent” or “Palestine calls for genocide” is an outright lie that attempts to mischaracterize palestinians as a monolithic organization that is united in their beliefs. They’re not, they’re a diverse group of people who have all manner of different perspectives and opinions. The Israeli state is a state, they set and control the laws that govern palestinians and Israelis. They are the ones who are in control of this situation and always have been.

              The deaths of both palestinians (the many thousands of them that there are) and of israelis (the comparatively few of them) are both on the hands of the israeli state who have done as much as possible to ensure that the situation continues to escalate - by continuing to run an apartheid state. The actions of Hamas here are not justifiable and those who commit violent crimes should be condemned.

          • foggy@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            So your stance is that it is okay for Hamas and Palestinians to commit acts of terror because Israel terrorized them first?

            I’m not really looking for nuance here, or why you feel the way you do, just making sure I understand your view before I respond further.

              • foggy@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                It was a simple question. Not sure why you feel the need to turn this into an argument.

                Again I am not looking for nuance in our interaction here. That was simply my understanding of your view from your words. Please correct them if not accurate rather than go on a crusade of attacks that are neither relevant nor constructive.

                (P.S., this attitude of yours is why no one is agreeing with you. Maybe go for a walk and take some deep breaths before responding?)

                • Tarzan9192@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  You asked a loaded question and you knew it would illicit an emotional response. Don’t patronize her. Everything she has said is not wrong. GTFO with your high horse.

                  • foggy@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Not my fault she’s bad at explaining her stance. Gave her a simple opportunity to simply correct what I’d gleaned from her unhinged responses. She instead decided to argue.

                    So, go fuck yourself 😘

                    (also lol what you’re doing is the literal definition of white knighting fyi)

                • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  How do I have an attitude, or have gone on a “crusade”? Because I’m pointing out things that are true? I haven’t attacked anyone in this conversation but Netanyahu and the Israeli state. Well, and the one guy who tried to tell me that I was defending rapists who I called an asshole.

                  • foggy@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Well clearly you didn’t take a few deep breaths or go for a walk.

                    You’re fucking ridiculous. I was trying to understand your perspective, but you’re so fucking defensive you cannot have an honest conversation.

                    Good luck, you’ll need it. Not going to continue to entertain this beyond here.

                    Maybe get a therapist. Never been so evident in a few messages that someone needs it so badly.

            • LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              Never said anything supported rapists, again I have been raped before asshole and any rapist is vile and their crimes unforgivable.

              Odd that you transplant the atrocities committed by those rapists onto all of Palestine. I’m not playing this game any more with you. Feel free to re-read my comments again. I’m not in the business of giving someone a platform to spread hatred of minorities, minorities who are treated as subhuman by their government.