• _cnt0@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    This doesn’t look like fabricated evidence at all. I am very happy with the fact checking of our media.

    • EatBorekYouWreck@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Why does it sound fabricated that an attack that killed 1200 civilians targeted civilians?

      For me it makes total sense.

      • Spzi@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Hamas is a genocidal, racist organization who declared in their charter peace talks are “a waste of time and vain endeavors”.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Charter

        Yeah, maybe this is fabricated. But we do not need to collect evidence to be able to judge who they are. They state it proud and clearly.

      • _cnt0@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        I’m talking about the attack plan printout here. Not the attack itself.

        • EatBorekYouWreck@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I’m not sure about your logic here, do you recognize the attack but reject that it was planned with printouts? Do you think the attack of >2000 terrorists was spontaneous?

          • _cnt0@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            I’m not sure if you’re playing dumb here. What I’m saying is, that this looks like Israel is planting fake evidence to spin a narrative. That does neither mean nor imply that there was no attack or that that was not planned. The “40 beheaded babies” turned out to be bullshit and I bet this will too. Even if the printouts turn out to be genuine, the reporting on it seems to be disingenuous and tries to make Hamas, and by extension the Palestinian people, look even worse than they are to make the over the top retaliation more palatable to the world by dehumanizing the enemy.

            • fosforus@sopuli.xyz
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              1 year ago

              What spin does Israel need to be doing exactly? This is all coming from Hamas itself.

              • _cnt0@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Have you ever heard of propaganda and dehumanization? Have you also noticed how Israel has already killed at least three times more civilians in the past few days?

                Hamas targeted residential district …

                Hamas target school in … to kill children!!!

                Spot the difference. What feels more like honest reporting and why would one choose the other option?

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              The ‘40 beheaded babies’ were a misquote from an interview with one IDF commander blown up by some media. It was corrected quickly.

              Even if the printouts turn out to be genuine, the reporting on it seems to be disingenuous and tries to make Hamas, and by extension the Palestinian people, look even worse than they are to make the over the top retaliation more palatable to the world by dehumanizing the enemy.

              Wait so if I understand you correctly: even if these documents are genuine and prove that Hamas explicitly wanted to target children, it’s still a big media conspiracy to make Hamas worse than they are?

            • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              The ‘40 beheaded babies’ were a misquote from an interview with one IDF commander blown up by some media. It was corrected quickly.

              Even if the printouts turn out to be genuine, the reporting on it seems to be disingenuous and tries to make Hamas, and by extension the Palestinian people, look even worse than they are to make the over the top retaliation more palatable to the world by dehumanizing the enemy.

              Wait so if I understand you correctly: even if these documents are genuine and prove that Hamas explicitly wanted to target children, it’s still a big media conspiracy to make Hamas look worse than they are?

              I think you’ve strayed far from the path

              • _cnt0@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                Wait so if I understand you correctly: […]

                You don’t.

                even if these documents are genuine and prove that Hamas explicitly wanted to target children, it’s still a big media conspiracy to make Hamas look worse than they are?

                No. But I don’t see that from those pictures. They targeted a residential area, which happened to contain a school (big surprise). Like with the “beheaded babies”, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. From the provided information I’m not convinced that Hamas targeted children specifically.

                Targeting civilians is already bad. The way I suggest they spin a story is by setting the focus on children, babies, women, … to appeal to emotions rather than just reporting facts. And I think they do that to dehumanize Hamas and by extension Palestinians to justify the retaliatory atrocities of an even bigger magnitude in the eyes of the world.

                It’s really not that hard of a concept to grasp … remember the babies taken out of the incubators in Iraq?

    • krolden@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Just like those decapitated babies they can’t find pics of or prove in any way they exist

        • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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          1 year ago

          Yeah the burned photos weren’t doing it since that’s very clearly not the same as beheading and so now they are just trying to show it could be true because “look at all this smoke we are pumping into the room! Somewhere in here might be an actual fire no one can actually find anymore!”

          Doesn’t matter. The leaders will keep doing what they want and the people who want to agree and watch the “Animals of Palestine” be wiped out will take anything to prove it was necessary.

      • _cnt0@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Yah, I want to see high resolution scans of those documents, check the MIC and get a statement from the printer manufacturer what country the printer was sold to. Want to place a bet it was Israel?

        Edit: fixed link formatting

          • _cnt0@feddit.de
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            1 year ago

            So you’re saying all printers in Gaza were bought by Israel, right?

            • EatBorekYouWreck@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              All printers in gaza have “Israel” as the region. But not only, basically everything that’s in Gaza is marked in “israel” region. That’s because Egypt almost never open their border crossing with Gaza and doesn’t export anything to Gaza (it had actually just shut down and barred the crossing with concrete slabs today, in order to prevent refugees from escaping).

              • _cnt0@feddit.de
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                1 year ago

                I’m not even sure what you’re trying to talk about here. Regional settings? Look, devices have serial numbers. Manufacturers keep track of where devices are sold to. It does not matter what route a device takes, only who pays for it. The number of devices in Gaza paid for by Israel is going to be very small. If a non profit in Germany buys a printer for a hospital in Gaza, that device will go through Israel before ending up in the hands of Hamas, and that device might or might not have Israel regional settings, that does not magically make Israel the buyer and does not alter the manufacturers or traders records who the device was sold to. It’s really not that hard to understand, is it?

    • HuddaBudda@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      It would be hard to say what Israel is lying about in this situation. Overall, it’s not like we don’t have verifiable evidence Hamas planned a invasion and executed it.

      We don’t exactly need more proof they were responsible.

      But my overall problem has to do with the fact that anyone could have printed these documents and labeled them “Top Secret” and “found” them on enemy combatants. Specifically anyone with an A4 type color printer.

      I don’t think Israel has a reason to lie about this, but I will state the obvious that this evidence is paper thin in comparison to the live videos of hostages.

      • _cnt0@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        I have no doubt about Hamas fighters invading Israel. That is pretty evident. But this kind of “evidence” found on the fighters is pretty suspicious. It is as credible as the pristine passports of the terrorists found near the WTC after 9/11.